Do I need to QT?

[Squidward]

Hi All,

Some advice please.

Late last year I had 6 sub-adult Discus in my 240L tank.
I got quite ill in December, and was feeling really rough for a few months. The last thing I felt like doing at the time, was daily water changes, so I got rid of the Discus.

I am now well again, and wish to get Discus again.
The tank had some Corries and Tetras, so the filter would have remained cycled.

If I get some new fish, can they go straight into the tank?
Or will I need to quarantine them?
The 2 batches will probably be from different sources.

Thanks
Squidward

[discuspaul]

Yes, you shoulde definitely QT both batches separately to ensure there are no problems with the fish from each different source.

[Squidward]

I don't have the original batch any more.

How would I go about introducing the 2nd batch into the tank?

[discuspaul]

I know you don't have the original batch of 6 discus anymore.

But in your post above you said ..... what sounds like.. you plan on getting 2 new batches from 2 different sources to re-start with discus - is that not correct ?
To explain:
If, for example, you get 3 discus from one source first - they should be placed in a qt tank for at least a month. If all seems well after that time, introduce those discus to your main tank, which you said was still running ok with Cories and Tetras (what kind of tetras ?), and which I assume are all healthy & in good shape.

Then later when you get your second batch of 3 discus, place these in the QT tank for another month & observe.
If everything's fine, introduce one of the first batch of discus from the main tank into the QT tank with the second batch of 3.
If all is well with those 4 after a couple more/three weeks or so, then place those 4 into the main tank with the remaining two.
You following ?
Again, I'm assuming the water in your main tank, and that in your QT tank, are approx. the same temp & pH.

So after the QT of both batches you're then just simply plopping & dropping from the QT tank into the main tank. Got it ?

[Squidward]

discuspaul,

No, sorry, I think you misunderstood me.
When I meant the Discus were possibly from 2 different batches, I meant the ones I had originally, and the ones I intend to get.
So I had some Discus from one supplier (Asians), and then the ones I plan on getting will probably be from someone else. (Undecided, but possibly Stendkers).

So if I have had some Discus in my tank at one point. The tank was clear of Discus for a few months, and then some new Discus from someone else.
Will there possibly be issues??

The Tetras are Bleeding Hearts - yup, the seem healthy to me. And the Corries. Haven't had problems with them.

[discuspaul]

OK
I don't know what source you're getting the new batch from, but if you're satified it's a very well-known, fully reliable, and reputable source - then the discus will likely be healthy and in good shape, so you wouldn't be taking a large risk by placing them directly into your tank (plop & drop).
If your previous batch of discus were also in good health and doing well when you got sick & had to get rid of them, I would think the risk of any harmful residual pathogens remaining in the tank to affect the new discus is relatively small.

Having said the first sentence about your source however, to be on the very safe side, I would nonetheless isolate them in a suitable QT (assuming you have one) for a few weeks to fully satisfy yourself they have acclimated well, gotten comfortable, are eating well, and they're in very good health.
If you're unsure in any way about your source, then definitely QT them.

[Squidward]

discuspaul,

yup, the person who I am getting the Stendkers from has an impecable reputation. I have 100% confidence in his fish.
If I had known how things were going to turn out, I would have gotten my first Discus from him too. But such is life.

What worries me, is that there would be nasties lurking from batch No 1.
As far as I could tell, they were healthy. None were sick. And I did treat for parasites (Kusuri) once or twice (when I first got the Discus, and again when I added the Corries and Tetras).

How long can nasties survive in a tank without a host?

[discuspaul]

Sorry, I'm no biologist and can't answer that question.
I believe it would be quite safe to assume though, that if your first batch of discus were doing well and had no health issues, and the fish that have stayed in the tank have also remained healthy and active, then there are no harmful pathogens in the tank which could affect the new Stendkers.
And it is highly unlikely your Cories and Tetras are carriers of any nasties that could affect healthy discus with reasonably well-developed immune systems.

[discuspaul]

P.S. I don't believe you will be taking much of a risk, if any at all, by immediately introducing your newly-bought Stendkers to your tank.
However, to play it really safe, you could place all your Stendkers, but one, in an isolated QT tank when received, and just add that single one to your main tank with the Cories and Tetras.
Observe for a few weeks (3 or more), and if all seems well, move the others from Qt to the main tank.
That way, if there is any problem whatsoever in your main tank, you only (potentially) lose one discus.
Hope this helps you decide.

[Squidward]

discuspaul,

Thanks for the advice.

[Squidward]

Just phoned one of the potential suppliers.

He said would be fine, don't need to QT.
He said that parasites etc would cease to be an issue after a week.

[GrayLadyPat]

Just phoned one of the potential suppliers.

He said would be fine, don't need to QT.
He said that parasites etc would cease to be an issue after a week.

I hate to say it, but that bothers me. Some parasites can live in cyst form for many months. If he is telling you all will be fine in a week, and that is is overall attitude concerning fish, I would find a different supplier.

In general, if you already have fish in the tank, QT the new batch, no matter what they are. One rougue cyst in a fish, whether a new one or an old one, could cause problems weeks down the road. Especially if it's something such as Camallanus, which don't even show symptoms until it is almost too late.

The only time I would not QT a new fish (or batch) is if they are the very first fish I put into a brand new cycled tank, because then the entire tank would be your QT tank.

Something you might do as well, is check out the sponsors here. They have great specimens at reasonable prices.

Good luck to you!

[dkeef]

I hate to say it, but that bothers me. Some parasites can live in cyst form for many months. If he is telling you all will be fine in a week, and that is is overall attitude concerning fish, I would find a different supplier.

In general, if you already have fish in the tank, QT the new batch, no matter what they are. One rougue cyst in a fish, whether a new one or an old one, could cause problems weeks down the road. Especially if it's something such as Camallanus, which don't even show symptoms until it is almost too late.

The only time I would not QT a new fish (or batch) is if they are the very first fish I put into a brand new cycled tank, because then the entire tank would be your QT tank.

Something you might do as well, is check out the sponsors here. They have great specimens at reasonable prices.

Good luck to you!

got a question. i placed 8 of kennys fish into the brand new cycled tank a month ago. all are doing very well and two are breeding also.
i have no other fish besides those in main tank.
if i order another batch of discus from Kenny this month, can i add them into main tank directly without QT?

[discuspaul]

If you have Kenny's discus (Forrest of Malaysia discus) in your tank with nothing else, and you'll be adding more Forrest discus from Kenny, then I feel you can consider it safe to just plop & drop the new batch when received.

I buy nothing but Forrest Discus, currently from Canadian Aqua Farm Discus Hachery (and previously from April's Discus), and I've added newly bought Forrest discus to an existing group of Forrest discus numerous times, with nary a hint of trouble.
I know a number of others who have done the same, and I'm quite certain that both Rick Grange of Canadian Aqua Farm and April, both long-time experienced discus breeders and importers, have no trouble advocating doing that as well.

Generally speaking, if you're adding known healthy discus from a specific source, which is also the same source as the existing discus you have in your tank, and those have remained healthy, many discus-keepers would believe and expect the risk of cross-contamination to be so low as to be satisfactorily overlooked.
If on the small odd chance that cross-contamination did occur, then of course the entire group would be medicated.

[dkeef]

ok. paul
if in future, after i have dither fish in main tank and i order more forrest discus again. does pop and drop apply here also?

[discuspaul]

I have done that as well, several times, without any issues. But I do that having confidence in knowing that my dither fish are all healthy & thriving, and knowing that my water conditions and parameters are very good, kept that way under a fastidious tank maintenance & cleansing routine, with the risks if any, being negligeable.

The same applies to dealing with adding any other species of fish to existing others, not just in the case of discus. Most problems generally crop up when adding discus to discus, obtained from distinctly separate/different sources. In my experience, healthy, compatible discus tankmates are seldom the cause of any issues developing with discus.

I'm a believer in the premise that one can safely take a calculated risk, using one's logic and god-given common sense, if in doing so one is avoiding a potentially serious, time-consuming hassle, or gaining nothing by taking no action at all, and this even applies to discus-keeping, imo.

There are those who, when in doubt, do nothing - i.e. take this only known completely safe approach, which accomplishes nothing. Those who do that regularly are entitled to their views about the logic of that, but there are just as many who disagree, like myself, and they are entitled to their opinion as well. Apologies if I seem to have sermonized.

[Squidward]

Well I spoke to a 2nd and 3rd potential supplier.
Both seem to think that the tank for more than a month will be ok.

[discusmat]

Yes well put. And to me that's the whole point of buying discus
from a reputable supplier.They have been in QT from Forrest let's say.
Then Kenny keeps them in QT.that's the selling point is clean healthy
discus.So you should be fine.