Help priming my Fluval 405!

[kenkaniff12]

Hi, I'm having real problems getting this filter up and running. It is 2nd hand, came part of a turtle tank setup. I cleaned out the filter completely and put it all back together but it will not prime. I'm getting no noise at all like I do when priming my tetratec. I filled the cannister hoping that this would help but again nothing.

All I can think is that it is to do with water height. Its a reptile one pro 90 turtle tank and you can only therefore fill it up about halfway. I dont know whether this is causing a syphoning issue.. but the last owner was using the setup in this exact way, presumably successfully.
Any ideas??

[discusmat]

is the empeller working? can you feel if it's working?

[Etek]

I used to have a problem with my 405 but I dont have issues anymore. What I did was fill the canister with water right up to just barely covering the top bin holding media. Then I attach everything and have the water come down thru the hose and wait a few minutes before I plug the power on. I'm not sure if the water height will do anything as I've always had my tank filled. But see if the impeller is working. Sometimes I have to plug and unplug a couple times before it kicks in. good luck

[kenkaniff12]

I filled the canister up myself and then turned it on and there was no priming, just a loud rattling noise inside the filter so I turned it off. What do you think is the problem?
Also, the filter did not come with the outflow nozzle that it should have, I'm not sure whether that would actually affect its working?

[boscobear]

You should begin with, top valve open, and no water in the canister. Never run the motor on this unit until the whole canister is full of water. Using the prime pump handle water should rush into the filter. You need to start with an empty canister. When the water enters the canister it pushes the air out creating the syphon action, pulling more water in the canister. If the canister is full of water, you can't start the syphon, the water is already there, and can not push out the air. The system is gravity fed. If you determine that you are not sealing on the lid, I would recommend that you open the top remove the rubber sealing ring, and wipe clean the rubber ring of any material, also use a little vasoline around the entire ring , just a little, to keep the rubber ring moist. This seal creates the suction, if air is being pulled in from the lid the system will never work.

[202690]

Sometimes when i clean and reattach my empty(water) 405 water enters the canister filter in the reverse direction i.e. enters the output side.
What i do is detach the hose compartment from the canister filter, hold the end of the hoses above the level of the tank then open the valve so that water runs out of the hoses then reconnect to the canister filter.
The water then runs in the right direction towards the end when i start to use the primer then i plug the power in and works :)

[kenkaniff12]

Thanks to both, I initially tried priming the filter with an empty canister which didnt work, so filled it as I know some people suggest its easier. I will clean and vaseline the sealant ring but I'm pretty sure that it's locked shut.
I use a tetratec ex700 with a spray bar so it's obvious visually and audially when the prming has worked. Sometimes it can be a real pain to get it going but you can see the water being pushed up the tubes. With the fluval its much harder to tell if it is having any effect. Theres basically no response from priming that I can notice.
I dont think that water is going in at either end..
The filter makes a big rattling noise when switched on which makes me think there might be an issue with impeller or motor but that doesnt explain the lack of siphoning.
The only things I can think are the height. (The stand is only very short. The water is above filter height but only by a few inches.) The tubes are very short, no kinks or loops and the outflow/inflow nozzles are submerged (by a few inches)
Also, I doubt this would make a difference but there is no nozzle on the end of the outflow

[Elliots]

These are some of the good reasons to use AQ or multiple AQ filters, ease of operation and cleaning. I bought an Eheim but I still have not connected it. I have an AQ110 and an AQ 60 or 70 on a 150 gallon.

[kenkaniff12]

Well unfortunately I'm stuck with this filter now. Any more advice would be greatly appreciated. I really need to get it working because there is a 12 inch yellow belly slider with no filtration right now. I have noticed that when using the priming lever nothing usually happens, but every now and again it will spurt water a small way up the intake like it should. But this happens so sporadically that the water ends up seeping down eventually. Could this mean that there is a problem with the priming level, not aligned or something?
What can I do to get this thing started??

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Have you taken both the intake and output tubes completely out of the tank and opened up the lines to drain what was in them? I have done this on ocassion and it works.

Lets try this,

Can you just fill the tank about 3/4 full just enough so the output tube is at least 4 inches below the water level? Then make sure the intake tube is down as far as you can go (make sure you closed them after draining the water from the above information).

Make sure the canister is completely empty. Put the top back on, make sure its closed tight. Then connect the tubes back into the canister. Once you lower the first lever that should seat the hose connection. After you close the second lever then start listening for water to start draining into the canister, you will see lots of bubbles coming out of the output tube (give it a few seconds). If the cansiter fills, plug it in. If it does not fill, use the primer rapidly until water starts filling the canister.

If you still don't hear the water running into the canister then one of the previous steps was not done correctly. I have 4 Fluvals and I know the problems. You can also go to YouTube and there are some good videos on setting it up. Or you can contact me if you like.

[kenkaniff12]

Thank you for the information I will definately be trying it, or I would have.... I just tried for ages to get it to prime, pumping the primer and eventually after pushing it really hard water started to go up the intake and eventually bubbles were coming out of the outflow. The filter however did not start filling. In my enthusiasm and down to a pretty shoddy design the primer lever has just snapped... I'm starting to pull my hair out. What can I do?

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Follow my instructions and you should be fine.

[kenkaniff12]

But the priming lever has snapped off?
I can try and follow the instructions without priming but I'm dubious that will work.
When you say take the tubes out, do you mean disconnect them from the cannister and also from the tank?
I'm not sure quite what you mean when you say open the lines to drain them either. Sorry if I'm being an idiot, but laymans terms would be good

[DiscusLoverJeff]

But the priming lever has snapped off?
It should not leak

I can try and follow the instructions without priming but I'm dubious that will work.
I have rebuilt a dozen Fluvals, it works, trust me!

When you say take the tubes out, do you mean disconnect them from the cannister and also from the tank?
Yes, take them out. Treat this like is was fresh out of the box and you are using and installing it for the first time.

I'm not sure quite what you mean when you say open the lines to drain them either. Sorry if I'm being an idiot, but laymans terms would be good
When you take the lines out, there is the gray lever from the top of the canister. Take the hose assembly to a sink, then, push the gray lever down and that opens the lines to drain the water thats in them.


Try it, it works, just have patients grasshopper.

[kenkaniff12]

Hi, I followed your instructions after realising what you meant. Its actually the same way I set it up initially as I watched the youtube video. Also, I cleaned the filter out completely before installing so opened the pipes in the process. But anyway, I tried it again as you said to the letter and there is nothing. No filling of the cannister. There is no noise at all and no bubbles. The only time i achieved that was when I pumped the primer for 10 minutes and eventually got bubbles from the outflow but the cannister never filled.
The primer is now snapped off so I cant try to prime. I dont really want to buy a replacement primer because that clearly isnt the problem, seeing as it didnt work last time.
My only concerns are about water level. It is physically impossible to increase the water level to above half as it is not water tight. This I assume could create a problem with gravity fed siphons. However, there is a hole in the tank halfway up, that i put the intake (also tried outflow) in, which is right above the water level.
I have heard people mention using other methods of priming when the primer will not work, such as powerheads. I use a powerhead on my tank to help filtration. Would I be able to use this somehow to prime the filter?

[Chicago Discus]

Turn it upside down when you plug it in then slowly turn right side up......Josie

[kenkaniff12]

Right, I have just tried to use the powerhead. I placed the powerhead into the intake (without the end strainer), keeping both underwater. The cannister filled with water and bubbles came from the outflow, but only when the powerhead was inserted. When I took it out there was nothing. A full canister but no syphon. I turned the filter on and all I get is the very noisy rattling sound. There was no suction and nothing coming out of the outflow..

[kenkaniff12]

Right, this is getting stranger. I tried what you said Josie. When I turned the filter upside down and turned it on, bubbles started to come from the outflow and the filter sounded healthy, I could hear water flowing about. As I slowly turned it upright I got the horrible loud rattle and the bubbles stopped and nothing. Repeated and same effect

[Chicago Discus]

Right, this is getting stranger. I tried what you said Josie. When I turned the filter upside down and turned it on, bubbles started to come from the outflow and the filter sounded healthy, I could hear water flowing about. As I slowly turned it upright I got the horrible loud rattle and the bubbles stopped and nothing. Repeated and same effect

then I would try changing the O ring ...... Josie

[kenkaniff12]

Ok, could you explain? I mean, there is no leaking even when I turn the cannister upside down. The o ring is lubricated and the top seems to lock into plave securely

[Chicago Discus]

If the O ring is not leaking then and then I would fill the unit up with water disconnect the intake and outtake and gently replace them so they fit snug. Then turn the unit back upside down while it running and slowly turn right side up. It will make noise for a minute or so but it will catch.....Josie

[kenkaniff12]

Thank you so much Josie, I have managed to get it working finally! Tipping it upside down made all the difference. i was starting to go mad and the turtle is very grateful. Would you suggest just leaving the snapped primer in there?
Also, I have read that you should replace the ceramic part of the impeller when you see black wear marks on it. Is that actually the case or should it be ok/ What should I look out for in regards to replacing parts

[DiscusLoverJeff]

If your tank was full I would have seen a problem. What happens when you are trying to pull water from a shallow tank like you are describing, the suction needed to get up the tank and over to the down-flow is not there. I am glad you got is started and running. Just remember what you did so you can repeat it with no issues.

The ceramic shaft for the impellar unless the black is caked on, it should be fine. I always clean (every other week) the magnet and shaft on the impellar and the blades to prevent debris from building as this will slow down the performance.

[Chicago Discus]

Thank you so much Josie, I have managed to get it working finally! Tipping it upside down made all the difference. i was starting to go mad and the turtle is very grateful. Would you suggest just leaving the snapped primer in there?
Also, I have read that you should replace the ceramic part of the impeller when you see black wear marks on it. Is that actually the case or should it be ok/ What should I look out for in regards to replacing parts


Glad I could help Ken

As far as the primer you can leave it in without an issue and the ceramic parts I keep clean with small brushes and replace them when it stops working or slows down. I have not used canister filters for a while but I remember the hard time I had getting them going again....:):):)....josie

[kenkaniff12]

Thanks alot guys. I have a tetratec ex700 also which only really works when my other tank is quite full so i anticipated a bit of a problem. (At least you get a priming button instead of a flimsy rod). Hopefully the depth will not decrease flow rate on the 405. So far it seems to be doing a good job. The last owner has done a hack job on the tubes though which are incredibly short now.
I plan on getting a taller stand so I will need new tubes. Do you know whether I need to buy the Fluval ones or whether anything cheaper would work?
I keep my cannisters as clean as I can but what I meant about the ceramic was the black marks you get from wear. As if the top surface has rubbed off.