Unexpected aquarium landed in my lap today- complete newbie- please help

[FeHope]

A tank with Discus landed in my lap today unexpectedly. I'm taking a deep breath right now and trying to read what I can on this site. I appreciate anyone with experience who might give me a triage list. I am afraid that, by the time I read something important, it will be too late. The situation is a little weird and I cannot go into details. Let's just say that apparently a judge in our small town thinks banishment is an appropriate punishment and I got called upon to pull this tank because the owner cannot take it with them. (I own a local pet supplies store that sells some fish supplies, but we do not sell fish. I know what the nitrogen cycle is and a few other things, but I don't even have a personal freshwater tank. I do, however, have a Ph.D. in chemistry- long story why I have the store- so I should be capable of learning the appropriate water chemistry quickly. I just have no aquarium experience and will not have good judgement on matters related to aquariums.) The alternative was the fish just get the death penalty. I thought that some chance of death, even a big one, was better than certain death. I do know that the fish were not taken care of while the owner was "away" for a short bit recently.

The aquarium is an established 90 gallon aquarium with 3-4 albino plecos, some cardinal tetras, and 2 Discus. The Discus, one in particular, did not appear to be in good shape (with my unqualified eye) when the whole thing started this evening, before the aquarium was messed with at all. This is a planted aquarium. I would say heavily planted. Since I don't know anything, maybe not . . . Gravel bottom. Seems to have a large number of snails in the gravel. Has a FX5 filter.

What has already happened: The discus were removed, placed in buckets with water from the tank, the tank was drained about 80% and, with a lot of help from friends, moved. I tried to save as much of the tank water as possible using coolers. The water temp went down quite a bit in transport and I think it may have been cold to start with . . . In any event, water was 76 degrees when we got it back into the tank in the new location. I didn't have any time to plan this move, so I am frankly surprised the tank got to its new spot in one piece. The water was a murky mess and you couldn't see anything at first. Once I got the filter going, the water did begin to clear up. Still not great, but you can see the fish. Once the water was moving, my first order of business was getting the water temp up because about the little bit I did know about Discus is that they need warm water and water temp problems, in general, cause stress/disease.

I got the basic life support going (heaters, filter) and had to leave. I went back and checked on the tank. Happy that the water was still inside the tank and nobody was dead (yet). Discus were hiding, which seems to be fairly normal for them from the little I know. The water temp is now at 82 degrees. I thought I should know the baseline water parameters to be able to look for change- so, I tested ammonia, nitrites, nitrate. Did have a detectable level of nitrite and some nitrates. I know the nitrite part is not good.

A few random thoughts (almost 4 am here, so I'm tired, please bear with me):
1) I saved a little less than 1/2 the water, so the aquarium currently only has about 45 gallons in it. I have water conditioner for tap water. From what I've read, I should add that, heat the water and aerate it for a while before adding to the aquarium. Is that correct? How long? Even though this is an established tank, should I add some bacteria (have Nutrafin Cycle) just because everything has just been thrown out of wack? The filter was also not running for a while when we were trying to get that super heavy tank in the truck. I'm thinking we'll have some die off.
2) pH- I know what it is, but I am really confused about what I should be doing with pH for Discus (plus plants plus other fish plus snails). I know the tank owner was using an RO system. I don't have one. If I test the pH of the current tank water and the treated tap water, I'm not sure I can do anything about it being different. As a chemist, using any sort of pH adjustment stuff just seems like opening a can o' worms to me and way beyond my skill level. Would I be better off just slowly bringing up the water level over several days, so any pH changes are slower for the fish?
3) The filter was providing the only water movement in the tank. The tank owner did not have any other aeration in the tank. Should I add an air pump and some stones? By the way, our town is at high altitude and I'm always thinking the fish here must be oxygen deprived. Then again, there are plants in this tank. I know they are producing some oxygen.
4) There are plants in this tank. Eek! I kill all plants. I don't even know where to begin on the plants. I don't even know how to ID them.
5) I haven't set up the lights yet. Should I leave them off for another entire day? Seems like the fish could use some quiet time . . . Then again, 4 above. Not sure if the plants will like that.
6) Tank owner says the discus were eating flake food. They seem a little thin to me. But, what do I know . . . I have immediate access to SFBB frozen foods from my store and some flakes. Suggestions?
7) The FX5 has carbon in it. I'm seeing stuff on-line that says no carbon with Discus. Since it was running this way, I'm thinking I should just stick with it for now. What would you do?

Moved/stressed tank + complete newbie with no time to prepare = ?

Thank you for reading. Any contribution to Operation Fish Rescue will be greatly appreciated. What should my priorities be with this aquarium at this moment? What do I need to watch out for?

[Elliots]

Start by changing a lot of water, I would say at least 50%. If you have a water conditioner that eliminates chlorine use it. If you have Prime use it with the water change because it will eliminate some ammonia, nitrates and nitrites but it will also make your ammonia test kit wrong unless it is a Seachem brand kit. Check the pH of your tap water, if it is close to your tank's pH change more that 50%. Change water at least 3X weekly. If you use tap water a Python makes it easier. The pH of your tank should be a constant as possible no matter what it is. The plants need light. Discus do better in groups of at least 4 but the more the merrier, I would say at least 6. If the filter works it probably has enough beneficial bacteria to take care of the nitrogen. Buy a air pump and more than one air stone. Because of moving the tank and fish they may be traumatized and not eat for a while. Take the carbon out of the filter.
If you have the time and the desire it is not that hard to keep Discus. Keep reading SD for many hours.
Where are you located? A SD sponsor near by you may be helpful.

[Ryan]

I'd post some pictures of the fish so we can see what condition they're in. It may tell us a lot more about them than text ever could. The first order of business is cleaning that tank. What is the pH/hardness of straight tap water for you? Does it change after off-gassing? Check it right from the tap, then let a glass of it sit on the counter for about a day and check that. If there's no change, you can do water changes right from the tap without aging. Most people age their water to stabilize the pH (and also to heat the water, but I just adjust my tap to the temperature I need when refilling).

It sounds like the filter could probably use cleaning. The FX5 is a great filter, but not if it's clogged and full of old food and feces. I'd ditch the carbon. My FX5s only have the outer ring of sponges on each of the three trays, and then inside the basket of each tray I use Eheim ceramic rings. Make sure you clean your filter in tank water -- rinsing it in chlorinated water could kill the beneficial bacteria and break your nitrogen cycle.

The most important thing for now is clean water. Water changes and a good filter cleaning will go a long way in fixing things. That gravel is probably disgusting and could use a good vacuuming. I don't use gravel anymore -- it's either a bare bottom tank for me or a thin layer of silica sand. They're both much easier to keep clean.

What are your plans for these fish? Are you interested in keeping them long term, or is this just a temporary thing until you can find them a home?

[FeHope]

Thank you for the responses!


Buy a air pump and more than one air stone. Because of moving the tank and fish they may be traumatized and not eat for a while.
I have air pumps and stones in my store. I'll put in something this morning.


Where are you located? A SD sponsor near by you may be helpful.
I'm in Los Alamos, NM, the end of the Earth for most things.

[FeHope]

Great questions. I'll get into the store soon and try to get post some pictures of the fish and check the pH of the water that has sat overnight and compare to some fresh tap water.

I'd post some pictures of the fish so we can see what condition they're in. It may tell us a lot more about them than text ever could. The first order of business is cleaning that tank. What is the pH/hardness of straight tap water for you? Does it change after off-gassing? Check it right from the tap, then let a glass of it sit on the counter for about a day and check that. If there's no change, you can do water changes right from the tap without aging. Most people age their water to stabilize the pH (and also to heat the water, but I just adjust my tap to the temperature I need when refilling).

I'll get the major debris out of the sponges using tank water and take out the carbon.

It sounds like the filter could probably use cleaning. The FX5 is a great filter, but not if it's clogged and full of old food and feces. I'd ditch the carbon. My FX5s only have the outer ring of sponges on each of the three trays, and then inside the basket of each tray I use Eheim ceramic rings. Make sure you clean your filter in tank water -- rinsing it in chlorinated water could kill the beneficial bacteria and break your nitrogen cycle.

I'm open to doing whatever is best for the fish. I would be happy to take care of them, if I can provide them a decent home, and just have it as a show tank in the store. They are in an area that we are expanding into and converting from warehouse to retail footprint right now, so no people in there right now. (Mostly done; just waiting on some commercial glass folks to put in new windows in an area that is the furthest from where I put the tank. Will make sure tank area is sealed off when they do that work.) I feel like I need to get the tank stabilized and the fish in better shape before anyone could take them because they are not looking healthy.

What are your plans for these fish? Are you interested in keeping them long term, or is this just a temporary thing until you can find them a home?

[FeHope]

I'd post some pictures of the fish so we can see what condition they're in. It may tell us a lot more about them than text ever could.

Sorry, I've never taken pictures of fish in my life, so I apologize for the poor photography. Here are couple of photos. The previous tank owner mentioned he had additional Discus in the tank and they died at some point.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61539306/Tank1.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61539306/Tank2.JPG

The orange one looks a tad healthier than the blue to my untrained eye and is a bit more curious/adventurous. The orange (she/he? I haven't read anything about that yet) has been out looking at me a bit and moving around the tank. I have also seen the orange one picking at the bottom a bit. I'm worried the blue one isn't eating. Hides a lot, so I cannot tell. I did put in some Discus flakes my store has, but I haven't tried any of the frozen food on them. All the other fish ate pretty quickly today. I also discovered one more fish- looks like a Cory Cat- who came out of hiding from somewhere.


The first order of business is cleaning that tank. What is the pH/hardness of straight tap water for you? Does it change after off-gassing? Check it right from the tap, then let a glass of it sit on the counter for about a day and check that. If there's no change, you can do water changes right from the tap without aging. Most people age their water to stabilize the pH (and also to heat the water, but I just adjust my tap to the temperature I need when refilling).

I retested ammonia, nitrite, nitrate this morning and also looked at the pH of the tank, the aged water, and the tap water. I did phosphate for grins. I don't know much about phosphate except I vaguely recall it might be related to algae problems, but plants also like it. pH of water in tank is ~6.6-6.8, the water I treated and left overnight (without aeration) is 7.6, direct tap 8.7. Nitrite was 0.1 mg/L, nitrate 5 mg/L, and phosphate is between 2.5-5 mg/L (between those colors on the test kit). No detectable ammonia.


It sounds like the filter could probably use cleaning. The FX5 is a great filter, but not if it's clogged and full of old food and feces. I'd ditch the carbon. My FX5s only have the outer ring of sponges on each of the three trays, and then inside the basket of each tray I use Eheim ceramic rings. Make sure you clean your filter in tank water -- rinsing it in chlorinated water could kill the beneficial bacteria and break your nitrogen cycle.

I didn't mess with the filter yet. By the time I performed all the tests and tried to feed them, my 3 year old was past expiration/ready to leave . . . She's napping now and I'm going to read the manual for the FX5.

I have no idea how sensitive the fish are to the pH change. Can I put in the 5 gallons of the aged overnight, treated tap water (tank is 6.6-6.8 versus 7.6) without a problem? (Now heated to the same temp as the tank, by the way.) The 90 gallon tank currently has about 45 gallons of the original tank water in it. The tank owner was using an RO system and the tank has driftwood. Is that likely reducing the pH?

Thanks again!

[FeHope]

Update: I put in 5 gallons of the treated, aged tap water. pH of the tank is now 7. Still haven't seen the blue one attempting to eat anything. Also, more testing . . . The GH is 60 mg/L and the KH is 20 mg/L in the tank. I have no idea where that should or shouldn't be.

[Allwin]

What is the temperature of the tank? and do u really need all those plants?

[FeHope]

What is the temperature of the tank? and do u really need all those plants?

In the original post, I mentioned that the move of the tank was less than ideal- the water temp was only 76 degrees when we got it set up in the new spot. I got it up to 82 degrees last night. I nudged the heaters a bit higher today, so I think it is a tad below 84 degrees now.

I definitely don't need all those plants. I would never even have plants in a tank that I put together. I know nothing about freshwater plants. (And, tend to kill any plants!) My concern has been changing everything on an already stressed tank at once . . . The Discus seem to like to hide around them, too. I feel like I can do more harm with too many changes at once. Maybe I'm wrong . . . I did try to go through and take away any almost dead leaves, etc, today. I also tried to replant some of the uprooted plants (putting the roots all the way into the gravel) and they all managed to come back out again. Arrgh. I didn't want to keep messing with the tank and scaring the stressed fish, so I gave up on that for the night on the plants.

[LizStreithorst]

If I were you I would remove the fish to a 20 gallon BB and give them a 4 hr PP treatment, wait a couple of days, see how they look and give a 10 day metro treatment at 400 mg per 10 gallons. After waiting several more days I would worm them with flubenol, just for kicks. While the fish are in the 20, I would remove the plants and gravel from the big tank. The easiest way to remove the gravel without making a mess is to siphon it out little by little with each WC.

With such a large swing in pH between the tap water and water that stood overnight you will have to age AND AERATE your WC water. The pH of 6.8 in the existing tank is due to the break down of all the organic waste that has accumulated in the gravel.

[Chicago Discus]

IMO I would start with lots of fresh clean aged water and remove all the plants. Do water changes at about 40 to 60 percent daily while vacuuming the gravel each time. Don’t put anything extra in the filter just be patient and observe if those two made it through poor water quality it tells me that they have strong immune systems. I would give that a try for a while and see if they turn around the last thing you want to do is start dumping meds in without knowing what’s going on. Looks like very poor water quality to me change that and you will see a world of difference.....Josie

[FeHope]

I appreciate the info on the meds. Good to know what I can use with Discus. As Josie suggests below, I think I'm going to really work on getting the tank water cleaned up first and see if they start looking any better. Just too worried about treating them when they are super stressed and I have no experience medicating fish.

Update: Nobody is dead yet! (My standards are pretty low right now. :-)) I've added about 15 gallons of treated, aged tap water (with aeration). pH of the tank is changing and coming up. Nitrite and nitrate are going down. Hopefully, the pH is not changing too fast for them. One good sign- I think- I saw the yellow eating a bit. I saw the blue one peck at the bottom for the first time this morning. Maybe he'll eat! They wouldn't eat the food the previous owner was feeding them, but I gave them some SFBB Cichlid Delight and that is what they seem to have at least a little interest in.

Another question- I noticed yesterday that the bigger, healthier looking yellow one seems to harass the blue one and the blue one tries to hide from him sometimes. Other times, they seem like buddies and swim around together. Is that why folks usually have 6-8? Do Discus have a social pecking order? I would hate to put any additional fish into this tank until I figure out what I am doing, but I am now wondering if the yellow one will end up hurting the blue one, if they are the only 2 of them. Is the behavior likely because they are stressed? Or will it likely get worse when the yellow one feels better?

Thanks!
Cyndi




IMO I would start with lots of fresh clean aged water and remove all the plants. Do water changes at about 40 to 60 percent daily while vacuuming the gravel each time. Don’t put anything extra in the filter just be patient and observe if those two made it through poor water quality it tells me that they have strong immune systems. I would give that a try for a while and see if they turn around the last thing you want to do is start dumping meds in without knowing what’s going on. Looks like very poor water quality to me change that and you will see a world of difference.....Josie

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Cyndi!

Sorry I'm late to your thread... I blame it entirely on houseguests...they showed up at my house in staggered stages for the last 4 weeks and kept me in a tizzy. LOL

The advice you've gotten is great!

My "thing" is writing out lists and steps, all in nice neat order of course, for people who are new to discus. Some of it will be repeats of what you've already gotten in this thread, but it's a list, so bear with me, ok?

The MOST important things to know about Discus:

1) They like a steady pH, no matter whether it's high or low. So long as it's consistent, they'll be happy.

2) They like clean water! Never be afraid of stressing them out with regular water changes. Mine got 2 water changes per day (at least 80% each time) when they were small - under 5")

3) They need high quality, high protein diets. There are several Discus Flakes, Freeze Dried Blackworms, Freeze Dried Bloodworms and Frozen Beefheart products on the market that you can purchase. Vary their diet by offering a flake feeding, a freeze dried worm feeding and a beefheart feeding each day. The number of feedings will depend on the size of the discus. Young discus can have up to 6 feedings per day, adults can get by on 3 feedings per day.

4) Discus don't care if there are plants in the tank, though they do like driftwood. They also don't care if there's substrate, though they do appreciate a thin layer of sand. If you remove all the substrate, be sure to paint the bottom of the tank so that they can't see their reflections. Otherwise, put in that thin sand layer. =)

5) Discus like the temps between 82F - 86F. The higher end encourages appetites.

6) Discus hate nitrates! Try to keep the nitrates below 10ppm with water changes.

How to get your new tank into the best possible shape for your new buddies:

1) Purchase a 20 gallon tank and paint the bottom (outside) white. Add a sponge filter and heater, then heat and age water in the tank for 24 hours.

2) While your 20g tank is aging, add enough aged water on the 90g tank to fill it to the top. While you are adding the water, siphon the gravel in the tank, removing about half of the gravel gravel at the same time. Also, pull half the plants on the day you top off the tank. On the second day, do a 50% water change and pull the remaining plants. Check for ammonia and nitrites each day and add a double dose of Prime to the water if you detect rising numbers. =)

3) Once the 20g tank has aged, move the discus over to that tank. Leave the lights out and just let them adjust to the new surroundings for 24 hours. This will be the tank where you treat them for bacterial infections and parasites before putting them back into the 90g.

4) After the discus are out of the 90, pull the rest of the gravel and plants out of the tank, vacuum thoroughly and do an 80% water change. Repeat the 80% water change every 2 days for a week, then back it off to 80% every 4th day till you are ready to put the discus back into the tank.

5) Do a 90% water change on the 20g tank every day. You're using a new filter in that tank so there won't be any beneficial bacteria, hence the need for 90% water changes. Be sure to use aged water! During the first few days, observe them for symptoms and note any improvements or declining health. Report back to us on what's happening with them.

Ok, that's enough info for now, keep us posted on your progress. You CAN do this! The blue may not survive since he looks very sick, but at least you will have given them a chance and that's what matters.

[FeHope]

Thanks, Strawberryblonde, for the detailed list! I can definitely use all the help I can get. We are currently short staffed at my store and I'm doing 4 full-time jobs . . . I'm already critically behind on some store operations work because of the tank and I won't be able to start until Friday on the plan. Hopefully, things are not too bad for them at the moment.

Update: It could be my imagination, but the Discus look a little perkier to me today. They are swimming around more and they are BOTH eating now. Hooray for that! I think they might have figured out that I feed them because they come to the front and act like they are waiting for food now when I stand next to the tank. If I move much, they hide, but they didn't come to the front of the tank before when I was around.

The tables seem to be turned today on the aggression. Yesterday, the yellow/orange one seemed to be beating up on the blue one and the blue one was trying to hide a lot to get away from yellow/orange. Was feeling badly for him. For whatever reason, blue is going after yellow/orange today.

Things aren't so smooth today- I swear it looks like a little surfactant on the tank water surface. I am using a food-only bucket that I used for all the other water treatments. Not sure how something could have been introduced. Maybe the tank had some protein on the glass interior surface and as the water level came up something got in. ? The fish seem okay, but it freaks me out a bit. I don't have anything large enough to do a huge water treatment/change. Can the water conditioner create something like that? I'm using the stuff the tank owner had and I hadn't used that brand before. Then, as I started to worry about that, I noticed that the FX5 canister filter started leaking a bit. It shut off for a minute and then there was a puddle around it. I cannot tell where the leak came from. It has restarted and seems to be working okay and hasn't leaked again. Troubling . . . I have enough that I need to take care of with this tank!

[FeHope]

Update: Everyone is still alive. Almost at a week now since the tank landed. Nitrite still detectable, but appears to have dropped a tad and be below the initial level of 0.1 mg/L now. Nitrate holding at about 5 mg/L. pH still floating upwards . . . I got rid of about 1/2 the plants. Still afraid of changing things too much. The FX5 hasn't leaked again (thankfully). I read some forums and am thinking I should order a new seal, just in case.

Both Discus are definitely going after food now. I am doing 3 feedings a day; doing the mix that the previous tank owner had (which the Discus seem to have some interest in now) for 2 of the feedings and frozen for another. They really like the frozen stuff. They don't seem to like the Discus flakes that I had at all. Those don't sink and they never seem to go near the top. Both of them seem to want to pick up food from the bottom. I think Blue has more color now. Is that possible?

I'm not sure how much food 2 adult Discus should be eating . . . I don't want to foul up the water, but I also don't want to underfeed them. Although they are going after the food, they seem to be fairly clumsy eaters and I don't want to try to remove the food right away, if they are still trying to eat. Any tips there?

I thought I carefully counted the albino plecos before and then I counted 7 last night. I was sure there were 5 in the tank up to that point! They must be pretty good at hiding in spots on the driftwood. I need to get a better set up for aging water. We aren't really set up for a tank and I don't even have a decent sink with any depth to work in . . . Just normal bathroom sinks. I guess it'll be a project to get things going smoothly. I spend a little less time worrying about all the tank inhabitants now. I guess that is progress.

[GrayLadyPat]

Hi!

And welcome to SD :D

I, too, received my discus quite suddenly and had to deal with caring for ones I had no idea how to begin with.

One thing I did learn over these last months... No matter what you do to the fish in the way of re-scaping the tank, they seem to freak out for a few days, and then everything is hunky-dory again. I changed my substrate out for sand, removed the plastic decorations I had for the community tank, and added driftwood, put my plants in pots, and now I am slowly capturing the last of the gravel and removing it with each water change. Every time I play with the tank, my kids all hide and act like they're irreversably stressed, but the next few days bring them out to beg.

I had to get used to the pecking order fights, as they looked quite vicious, but in the end, everyone was ok except for a missing scale or two, which healed up nicely in a few days.

The only other thing I can say is listen to the wonderful people here. If it were not for them, I am sure I would be raising guppies right now. :D

Cheers!

[FeHope]

Blue Discus, the one who was in bad shape before I had to move the tank from the previous owner's house, has definitely taken a turn for the worst . . . When I went to feed last night, he was laying on the bottom, with his head slightly up. Orange Discus keeps beating him up, chasing after him around feeding time, and I haven't seen him eat in a few days. I've been trying to feed on both sides of the tank, when Orange isn't near him, but Orange will stop eating where he is a and then go harass Blue on the other side of the tank.

When I saw his state last night, I rechecked water parameters. Nitrite is less than 0.1 mg/L and Nitrate is less than 5 mg/L. pH is about the same. All the rest of the fish look like they did. So, I suspect that Blue is just out of reserves or diseased.

I expected to find him dead this morning. But, he is still hanging on. He's still resting on the bottom a lot. He did swim over when I was going to feed them, but, of course, Orange chased him away. I am setting up a hospital tank for him at this point because I don't know what else to do. Not being able to eat (or not wanting to eat?) won't help his physical condition. At least he might have a chance at food.

Current status is: water in the hospital tank and heating up to 86 degrees. I used 5 gallons of water from the current tank and 5 gallons of the treated, aged tap water. (All I have is a 10 gallon for this purpose). Heater is still working on getting water up to temp. I've got more water aging, in prep for needing to replace water in the hospital tank. I've got an airstone going in it and a heater. Should I bother hanging on a filter?

Should I treat him for disease at this point? If so, what? Do I wait and see if he will eat in the other tank first? I won't have any bio filtration on the hospital tank. Should I stick in some Cycle for bacteria when I put him in?

**Help appreciated!** I am sad that Blue is likely nearing his end. Since I have no experience with Discus, I'm not helping him like someone else could. :-(

[Crunchy]

I think the blue is just getting bullied. The hospital tank will work for now for the blue. You can take an old filter sponge material to seed the new filter on the fx5 but it won't be enough so keep up the water changes and prime. You can also start adding some bottled bacteria such as tetra safe start to help seed and quicken the cycling process.

Discus usually needs to be in groups of 6 or more. I find tat they are most comfortable in at least 8, as it spreads the bullying.

[FeHope]

Thanks, Crunchy!

To my surprise- Blue was still alive this AM. He looks thin to me. Still hanging out on the bottom, in a corner, with his head up. He does seem to be working hard to breathe. I was going to hang a small filter on the main tank last night and have it run overnight to seed the filter and, alas, discovered the filter has a little dang crack and would drip water. Since I'm the only pet supplies store in town and I'm out of filters now, guess I'll be ordering more . . . Seems like yesterday was equipment failure day because the heater stopped working on the hospital tank, too. Put in a bigger one this morning. Grrrr . . . spending a lot on a tank that I didn't even want! Regardless, I'm going to add some bacteria, get Blue in the hospital tank today, and see if I can get him to eat. Not sure what the long term solution is at this point . . . I really don't want to get more Discus until the main tank is in better shape. I am also not convinced something isn't wrong with Blue and I wouldn't want to put nice Discus into a tank with a problem and have them get sick. Blue likes to hide- should I put a small fake plant in there for him in the hospital tank or is that likely just to make keeping the water quality okay in that small of a tank difficult?

Cyndi



I think the blue is just getting bullied. The hospital tank will work for now for the blue. You can take an old filter sponge material to seed the new filter on the fx5 but it won't be enough so keep up the water changes and prime. You can also start adding some bottled bacteria such as tetra safe start to help seed and quicken the cycling process.

Discus usually needs to be in groups of 6 or more. I find tat they are most comfortable in at least 8, as it spreads the bullying.

[dillpickle]

Well good job so far! If I were you I would put something in the hospital tank if the fish is stressed out as it may just get even more stressed if it feels out in the open. I have a feeling that when you get this tank under control you will really enjoy it!

[Crunchy]

Sure thing Cyndi, I was in your position once, got 2 discus and i didn't know what I was in for... But now am addicted haha.

Yes the hospital tank should have some cover, you can put a fake plant, but make sure it's very soft plastic, and not sharp edges. Better yet, put a hardy real plant like java fern to make a hiding spot, but make sure it's not expensive plant. Plants may die in case you put in salt or other meds.

What you can do for the hospital tank is bring up the temp to about 88-90, put 0.5-1 tablespoon salt per gallon. The high temp shud spur the discus to eat and salt can help heal minor wounds. High temp also prevent some diseases like ich. Then monitor the fish for a few days, checking for white poop or fungus.

I know it's a lot of work and cost for two small fishes. You should really decide whether discus is for the long run for you. If all else fails, you can consider culling the blue. Many of us cull fish here, it's not such a bad thing, breeders have to cull a bunch of fishes regularly.. Sometimes even healthy ones if they are stunted or deformed.. But meds, water, attention are all expensive, and it's better to let the discus pass peacefully than to let it suffer a slow painful death.

If the yellow thrives by itself then you just let it be. I have seen a discus living by itself in a show tank quite happily even at lower temperatures 80f for several years.

[FeHope]

Thanks, again, all.

I did put in a fake plant that has soft rounded edges. I also put in an underwater sponge filter, after I ran it overnight on the main tank. I transferred Blue about an hour ago. Water temp was within 0.2 F of the main tank (digital thermometer) at 87.5 degrees. The water in the hospital tank has been aerating for 2 days and had water conditioner in it. I used half tank water and half new. So, I think the water should be okay. He immediately laid prone (one whole side down) on the bottom. Doesn't look good. Your message is appreciated because now I'm in the realm of wondering if he's suffering . . . He seems like he's really trying hard to live, so I also hate to cull him. Hard decisions. So, far, Orange (the snot) doesn't seem to care at all that Blue is gone. He keeps coming to the front to beg for food.

I thought I should give him some time to adjust to the hospital tank. He seemed better in the main tank, so now I'm also questioning what I've done. Sigh.

His head appears a little weird today. His eyes are cloudy and his head looks sunken in front of his eyes. Can that be a certain disease? I tried to get a picture, but he hides. If he has a bacterial infection, will I make him worse by bringing up the tank temp more?

Last night, when I went to feed them, I discovered that a Cardinal Tetra got stuck in the filter intake sometime between when I left work and when I returned for the evening feeding. So, first fatality wasn't who I thought . . . Rough time in Tankland right now!

Cyndi


Sure thing Cyndi, I was in your position once, got 2 discus and i didn't know what I was in for... But now am addicted haha.

Yes the hospital tank should have some cover, you can put a fake plant, but make sure it's very soft plastic, and not sharp edges. Better yet, put a hardy real plant like java fern to make a hiding spot, but make sure it's not expensive plant. Plants may die in case you put in salt or other meds.

What you can do for the hospital tank is bring up the temp to about 88-90, put 0.5-1 tablespoon salt per gallon. The high temp shud spur the discus to eat and salt can help heal minor wounds. High temp also prevent some diseases like ich. Then monitor the fish for a few days, checking for white poop or fungus.

I know it's a lot of work and cost for two small fishes. You should really decide whether discus is for the long run for you. If all else fails, you can consider culling the blue. Many of us cull fish here, it's not such a bad thing, breeders have to cull a bunch of fishes regularly.. Sometimes even healthy ones if they are stunted or deformed.. But meds, water, attention are all expensive, and it's better to let the discus pass peacefully than to let it suffer a slow painful death.

If the yellow thrives by itself then you just let it be. I have seen a discus living by itself in a show tank quite happily even at lower temperatures 80f for several years.

[Crunchy]

I'm not an expert on all discus diseases, but from you mention sunken head may be starting of hole in the head. This is mainly due to malnutrition or internal parasites. You can try to medicate now, if you really want to try for him to live. You can post in the diseases section on how to treat for hole in the head using metro or browse the archives here. Usually it's 500mg / gallon of metro dose every day for at least 5 days. Metro is available in a pure form, flagyl or a branded product such as APi General cure or Jungle anti-parasite. Again, for diseases, it's important to seek more opnions because no one method is a sure thing.

In my experience to get a sick discus to eat may require live blackworms or frozen bloodworms. These are the most attractive discus food. Not the most nutritious but for emergencies it's better to get them to eat something. The metro may also be mixed into the food, especially beefheart mixes if they still want to eat beefheart.

The high temp will not be bad for the discus, just make sure there is plenty of surface movement and aeration. Metro also works better in higher temps of 88-90. Also make sure lighting is very dim to reduce stress and metro may also be light sensitive.

It's real unfortunate that you got such a bad introduction to discus. They are not really hard fish to take care of, just needs a good heater and lots of water changes. Hopefully you don't give up on discus fish, they are beautiful and great fish, if you got good stock and had the proper set ups from the beginning.

[FeHope]

I've looked at the online stuff and hole in the head might be what he has.

I'm thinking it is time for metro. Of course, we don't have any in my store right now, someone bought the last of it 3 days ago. (Who the heck is in charge of ordering?)

He really looks worse since I put him in the hospital tank. I retested the water in the hospital tank and no nitrite and a little bit of nitrate. Added some good bacteria. I didn't check pH before I put him in because I had tilled the hospital tank with half tank water and aged, treated tap water, which is what I used to refill the main tank 2 weeks ago. Since he looks worse, I tested that and the main tank is about 7.2 and the hospital tank is closer to 8. Eeek! Wonder if that gave him an additional problem. Do I move him back to the other tank? Maybe I should trade more tank water for the hospital tank. ?


I'm not an expert on all discus diseases, but from you mention sunken head may be starting of hole in the head. This is mainly due to malnutrition or internal parasites. You can try to medicate now, if you really want to try for him to live. You can post in the diseases section on how to treat for hole in the head using metro or browse the archives here. Usually it's 500mg / gallon of metro dose every day for at least 5 days. Metro is available in a pure form, flagyl or a branded product such as APi General cure or Jungle anti-parasite. Again, for diseases, it's important to seek more opnions because no one method is a sure thing.

[FeHope]

No change in Blue. He's still laying sideways on the bottom of the hospital tank. Barely looks alive. Hard to tell unless I look closely and see his little mouth moving. Tried to feed him and he didn't eat anything . . . I saw a lot of different dosages on metro on-line for fish and in this forum. Went to my vet, got some metro tablets, crushed some up, and put in ~400 mg for the 10 gallon tank. No lights on the tank and it is covered up.

I think Blue surviving at this point would be a miracle. Poor guy.

Cyndi


I've looked at the online stuff and hole in the head might be what he has.

I'm thinking it is time for metro. Of course, we don't have any in my store right now, someone bought the last of it 3 days ago. (Who the heck is in charge of ordering?)

He really looks worse since I put him in the hospital tank. I retested the water in the hospital tank and no nitrite and a little bit of nitrate. Added some good bacteria. I didn't check pH before I put him in because I had tilled the hospital tank with half tank water and aged, treated tap water, which is what I used to refill the main tank 2 weeks ago. Since he looks worse, I tested that and the main tank is about 7.2 and the hospital tank is closer to 8. Eeek! Wonder if that gave him an additional problem. Do I move him back to the other tank? Maybe I should trade more tank water for the hospital tank. ?

[dash]

I must really commend you and take my hat of to you for the effort and dedication you have put in to this. Hope the fish make it.

[Crunchy]

I've looked at the online stuff and hole in the head might be what he has.

I'm thinking it is time for metro. Of course, we don't have any in my store right now, someone bought the last of it 3 days ago. (Who the heck is in charge of ordering?)

He really looks worse since I put him in the hospital tank. I retested the water in the hospital tank and no nitrite and a little bit of nitrate. Added some good bacteria. I didn't check pH before I put him in because I had tilled the hospital tank with half tank water and aged, treated tap water, which is what I used to refill the main tank 2 weeks ago. Since he looks worse, I tested that and the main tank is about 7.2 and the hospital tank is closer to 8. Eeek! Wonder if that gave him an additional problem. Do I move him back to the other tank? Maybe I should trade more tank water for the hospital tank. ?

Don't worry about the ph too much. Having old water vs new water isn't so much an issue. Discus needs new fresh water much more than anything, as long as temp and ph is quite stable. Most likely he is a little more stressed from being put in a new environment and scared so lying sideways, it's expected but it's better than continued bullying in the old tank.

Continue daily water changes and metro dose. If you have enough metro on hand, you can also dose 2-3 times a day, as metro is only effective for 8 hours.

Does he have any other symptoms? You may want to look into the disease section of the forum if he exhibits other symptoms.

[dash]

How is the fish doing

[FeHope]

Thanks for asking. He's still alive. No improvement whatsoever. He's laying one side down on the tank bottom. I tried to place some of the frozen food (thawed) that he liked before right in front of his mouth. He scooted about an inch to it. I was hopeful. But, then he didn't eat anything.

I am struggling with keeping the nitrite and nitrate low in the hospital tank. I take out all the food (that he doesn't eat) each time I try to feed him. I did a 30% water change last night, using the main tank water (which is at no detectable nitrite and less than 5 mg/L nitrate). I added more metro because of the change. I also added more of the Cycle bacteria. My guess is the metro is killing off the good bacteria, too.

I went in this morning to check on him and the nitrite level was already high. Yikes. He's already on his last leg and I feel like I'm going to kill him with nitrite. I switched out half his water with the main tank water (which I retested and is the same as listed above).

Wondering at this point if he has a swim bladder problem. He seems unable to right himself. When I switched him between tanks, I was trying to be careful. I don't think I injured him . . . But, he immediately went side down in the hospital tank. In the main tank he was sort of "sitting" on the bottom with his head slightly up. Now, I'm worried he's going to get sores on that side, too. I'm going to post on the disease forum, too, and see what folks might think.

Here is the kicker. I have a business trip coming up- I fly out tomorrow and am not back until midnight Thursday. My employees are not super fish savvy. They are using a checklist on the main tank and my plan is to only have them feed, check for problems, and report water parameters. I am afraid the hospital tank is not within their skill set. I'm having a hard time with it. I was hoping to see some improvement in Blue. I may have to just put him back in the main tank tomorrow. Sigh.


How is the fish doing

[dash]

I would not put him back in as if he ha an infection he will spread it to the other fish. I would also use fresh water when doing a water change and not old tank water. What temp is the hospital tank? Do you have air stone in there?

[FeHope]

Okay. I think he had it when he was in the tank. My guess is the other fish were eating and have better immune systems. I'll try to get back into the store to show the employees how to age the water before I catch my flight. We'll see . . . Time is running out. I'm finding I have to do 2 50% water changes a day on the hospital tank. How long do I keep trying the metro? He just doesn't seem to be getting any better.

The hospital tank is reading about 87.6 degrees on the digital thermometer. I think it reads a little high, though. The heaters I have with thermometers are set a little lower at 85 on the main tank and that same digital thermometer reads nearly 88 in there. I haven't had the time to try to calibrate the digital one. My guess is the hospital tank is not quite 87.

I have an airstone in the hospital tank and a small surface sponge filter.

He seems to be breathing slower. I don't know if that means he is improving (not gasping for air) or if he is slowly dying. He still is unable to right himself or swim.


I would not put him back in as if he ha an infection he will spread it to the other fish. I would also use fresh water when doing a water change and not old tank water. What temp is the hospital tank? Do you have air stone in there?

[dash]

Lets hope he makes it. There are lots of experienced guys here far better them me lets see what they say. Where about in the world are you?

[FeHope]

I'm in Los Alamos, NM. The end of the Earth for most things. The Manhattan Project started here for a reason!


Lets hope he makes it. There are lots of experienced guys here far better them me lets see what they say. Where about in the world are you?

[dash]

Wow. And I am in South Africa. The joys if the Internet. Hope some one can help you ASAP.

[FeHope]

Update: Blue is still alive in the hospital tank. I may have to rename him to Tough Buggar. I found a local guy, through a Facebook pleading, who has had Discus for many years. Hoping he can come take a look at him and his experience will help.

[dash]

Glad to here. Keep us posted.

[du3ce]

props fir having the patience and troubles for saving the lil guy

[FeHope]

Not sure I am doing him any favors right now . . . Still alive and no improvement. Not eating at all . . . Just posted an update in the disease forum. Poor guy!


props fir having the patience and troubles for saving the lil guy

[dash]

Sorry to here that. How's the fish?

[FeHope]

Blue died this morning (8/30/13). He put up a good fight. I was changing his hospital tank water 2 x a day and medicating him with metro and kanamycin. He seemed to be finally turning a corner when I started the kanamycin because, after a long time of not eating, he began to eat bloodworms again (with assistance). Poor Blue. We both fought hard. He didn't look so bad when I took him from the tank. (Other than being thin and dead, of course.) Guess he just was too far gone to survive. :-(

[Trubble]

I'm sorry he didn't make it. You tried all you could.

How's the other one doing?

[Crunchy]

Sorry about that. Hope this doesn't discourage you from discus. You got a bad stock to start with. Discus are pretty hardy if you have the willingness to do frequent water changes.

[musicmarn1]

These poor guys already I'm SURE appreciate the water changes!! One thing I saw in your post that I my have missed but didn't see anyone correct(I'm still learning and always rely on others here to correct me) is that I do t add the prime until your adding into the tank, the de chlorinator binds the ammonium but relays on the filter to take it out so in an gaining barrel doesn't have the filter. I can also say the biggest improvement I saw in my rescues (my lfs isn't bad in general but isn't a discus person so I rescued some at a major discount) was ageing the water.

Blood worms don't foul up the water as much a sponsor told me, though if you have them both eating HIGH quality flakes, they might shun those in favour of bloodworms, just that way you can be sure he eats. I'd take out all hiding places to make sure he is eating and can get used to you, unless he is suicidally darting around then I'd leave one in. If you hand feed a few not lots of frozen bloodworms as the last feeds of the day after flakes have been offered a few times, I'd hand feed a few worms to get them tamer and coax blue, just keep your hand still, might take a few days for blue to copy yellow.

The blue one looked awful in your picture, they seem to have been through rough times, the other thing I see here at SD is keep posting pictures members can see them improve much better than you or I can. They will be honest. Anyway I've saved several evacuated or black rescues, my lfs from two towns don't bother often with them not like a bigger pet store and take really excellent care of the other fish, they just don't know discus I had to learn fast too! Water is everything, wish my chemistry teacher had ONCE told me it was fish I was learning this stuff for, or normal health, it was all I cared about , I'd have learned it if he said that! So your in good shape there.

They are lucky to have you, good luck. Marnie