discus gill cover problem

[glus]

One of my discus has a gill cover problem. See the pictures. The gill cover is raised and white things sticks out of it. It does not look like the gill itself but rather gill cover bing affected. I don't know how to treat it. The fish is very stressed. The white thing as shown on picture sticks out and is soft looking like white jelly. Can anyone suggest what it can be? Thank you. See pictures below:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Beak8_sRldbzlMNGloZlR0N1E/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Beak8_sRldd25ZUXEtZEhvbWs/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks for any input.

[rdiscus]

Where the picture?

Think you need more post for picture

[strawberryblonde]

Hi pictures are hosted on his google images, so they don't pull through to this site. I can see them only because I'm logged into my google account and copied the URL's to go view them. I'll save them and upload to this site...give me a minute or two. =)

[strawberryblonde]

Here are his pics:

79325

79326

[Baygon]

Look nasty and painful...but first you need to fill in the blanks for us to help you better. Most of the time when there are white things sticking out of the gill I suspect gill flukes. BUT FILL THE QUESTIONAIRE FIRST.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete

[glus]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

one fish, gets dark, raised gill cover

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

stressed, black


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

seachem paraguard

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
66gal, 6 fish, 3''

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

10% daily, 25% on weekends

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

6 months+
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

no

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __84F___

- ph ___7.1__

- ammonia reading _0___

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading ___5ppm_

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water __yes__

- RO water __yes 10%__


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

no
10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Chicago Discus]

IMO........There are two things that cause this issue in my experience. One being the most likely is water quality I would start aging your water and start doing larger water changes like at least 50% daily until the symptoms go away also I would stop the Para-guard never been a fan of that stuff. and two I have seen this with poor shipping but I don't think thats the issue. Up the water changes with aged aerated water and you will see a big difference.......Josie

[glus]

Josie,
The store from which I bough them asked to use PP solution 2% per 10 gallons for 2 hour bath followed by 25% water change and Maracyn for 5 days. What do you think? And why would the all other fish be unaffected and playful?

[Chicago Discus]

Josie,
The store from which I bough them asked to use PP solution 2% per 10 gallons for 2 hour bath followed by 25% water change and Maracyn for 5 days. What do you think? And why would the all other fish be unaffected and playful?


Well my first thought is to follow the advice of the place you purchased the fish from as they know the history of the fish. But with that said in my experience treating enflamed gills can be tricky at best. If they were my fish I would skip the PP treatment because the gills are already compromised and it could cause permanent damage to the gills. Maracyn(erythromycin) would be ok but I would use both at once Maracyn 1 (erythromycin) and Maracyn 2 (Minocycline) for better results. But before you can start medication you first need to get the water quality under control. Start aging your water and do larger water changes. After all said and done the gill may never be right but as long as you don't further irritate the gill you can get some improvement.........Josie

[Baygon]

Stop using Paraguard that med killed one of my discus and nearly messed up the others!

[Skip]

as josie said..

probably gill damage due to water quality.. ie, lack of water changes..

[glus]

as josie said..

probably gill damage due to water quality.. ie, lack of water changes..
Only one side of the fish's gill is damaged the other is not.


I do change water daily and other fish are doing fine except for one more that constantly hides by driftwood and not eating; but looking healthy. On another note, what do you guys think of using live black worms?

thank you.

[timmy82]

I only use freeze dried as then you know all the other nasties are gone and you left with the benifit of the bare clean product. I also use a beef heart mix without any issues.

[Skip]

Only one side of the fish's gill is damaged the other is not.


I do change water daily and other fish are doing fine except for one more that constantly hides by driftwood and not eating; but looking healthy. On another note, what do you guys think of using live black worms?

thank you.

10% wc is not good enough. . U asked.. and u got answers.. if u don't want to accept them .. then so be it...

[glus]

using beef heart I had issues with clouding water; even when was giving minimal ammounts; got it from discussmadness.com

Jakub

[glus]

I guess I am missing something because I rarely get nitrAte of 5ppm; its always almost 0 or not detectable. That's why I don't change water more often. Years back I kept discus and had no issues even when changing water once weekly. This is a relatively new tank though.....

[Skip]

I guess I am missing something because I rarely get nitrAte of 5ppm; its always almost 0 or not detectable. That's why I don't change water more often. Years back I kept discus and had no issues even when changing water once weekly. This is a relatively new tank though.....

yes, you are.. like the importance of daily water changes (like 50%).. your fish is damage.. it needs pristine water conditions to heal..

however, that kind of damage will not recover.. i had it in one of my fish back when i started..

water quality is start and end of just about every discus issue out there..
large daily water changes do wonders to health of fish..

but if don't agree.. then i will let you just keep asking and waiting until someone gives you an answer you like..

[Baygon]

Ooohh Glus if your other discus are fine then your water must be ok! The fish with gill problem perhaps is a God act so dont you worry about it!! ;);)

+1 warlock4169

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[glus]

yes, you are.. like the importance of daily water changes (like 50%).. your fish is damage.. it needs pristine water conditions to heal..

however, that kind of damage will not recover.. i had it in one of my fish back when i started..

water quality is start and end of just about every discus issue out there..
large daily water changes do wonders to health of fish..

but if don't agree.. then i will let you just keep asking and waiting until someone gives you an answer you like..

hi Warlock,
Thank you for your suggestions. I do take them into account and not asking for questions I'd like to like but ones that can assist. Anyone else has any suggestions? thank you guys.

J

[Baygon]

How is the poor thing doing?

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[glus]

How is the poor thing doing?

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hi Byron,

Got a little more colors and I think the gill cover looks little better. Eats more.

J

[Baygon]

Good to know glus. In time it should get better and better :)

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[glus]

I just don't understand what's up with the second fish, which looks healthy but would not eat and hides all the time.....

[PP_GBR]

G:

Whenever fish show symptoms, you need to up your WC, clean up the filters, the tank walls, decors, etc.

[glus]

10% wc is not good enough. . U asked.. and u got answers.. if u don't want to accept them .. then so be it...

hi Warlock,

Yes, I've started changing more water and most of the fish have improved. I was wondering if siphoning through too much gravel can cause ammonia spike due to either taking out too much BB or spreading over the waste? My ammonia spiked to 0.25 after my last siphoning. I do use an external canister filter as well. Please advise. Thank you. Appreciate your all information. I am learning. The fish that had the gill problem still shows a little swollen gill but its colors seemed to return and it is much more active.

On another note I would like if any member knows how to buy Andrew Soh's book "Discus the naked truth"? Thank you.
:)

[Skip]

hi Warlock,

Yes, I've started changing more water and most of the fish have improved.

Great!



I was wondering if siphoning through too much gravel can cause ammonia spike due to either taking out too much BB or spreading over the waste? My ammonia spiked to 0.25 after my last siphoning. I do use an external canister filter as well. Please advise. Thank you.

its possible.. or it could be a false positive reading from your de chlorinator.. what are you using? how deep is your gravel?



On another note I would like if any member knows how to buy Andrew Soh's book "Discus the naked truth"? Thank you.
:)

you can message him directly.. on facebook.. ANDREW SOH

[Baygon]

Glu dont depend much on gravels as most of us have barebottom tanks and siphon everyday without any spikes.

Invest on your filters! :) if you have great amount BB in your filterS your shouldnt be worried.

Its always better to have more filtration.

God speed.

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[glus]

Great!



its possible.. or it could be a false positive reading from your de chlorinator.. what are you using? how deep is your gravel?

Dr. Foster's Chlorine Neutralizer, about 1.5'' thick gravel

you can message him directly.. on facebook.. ANDREW SOH



Dr. Foster's Chlorine Neutralizer, about 1.5'' thick gravel

ok...will do

[glus]

Glu dont depend much on gravels as most of us have barebottom tanks and siphon everyday without any spikes.

Invest on your filters! :) if you have great amount BB in your filterS your shouldnt be worried.

Its always better to have more filtration.

God speed.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

Yes, I've been thinking about a barebottom. I am just used to gravel so much. I may switch to sand instead but would ideally like to have something on the bottom. It is a show tank in my living room. :(

[Baygon]

I have a 75 black sand tank but i only use enough to cover the surface not for BB use. But i have a cansiter+internal+hob for BB.

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[dkeef]

If the fish comes with gill issue described here then what could be the reason for it?
Lets say if its from our sponsors and when i get it from shipment and theres gill plate flared out etc...stress from shipping then?

[glus]

If the fish comes with gill issue described here then what could be the reason for it?
Lets say if its from our sponsors and when i get it from shipment and theres gill plate flared out etc...stress from shipping then?

It was not stress from shipping. I boght it in person. And also, I noticed that fish's gill a couple of days after I bought it.

Now, going back to me siphoning my gravel. This evening I checked my water parameters. Everything is messed up and it was not before my last siphoning. The fish are swimming around and eating but are stressed; even when I am going towards the tank they hide. My nitrites are 5 ppm, nitrates 20ppm, KH: 4, GH:7, PH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0. I've never had nitrates over 5ppm.... I guess I must have killed some BB when siphoning/changing the water although I did add de-chlorinate. Maybe I added too little, but still,I followed the instructions. As per my PH: it is 7.8 out of tap, drops to 7.6 later on. It has practically always been like that and I had real hard time adjusting ph to lower it even using a mix of RO and tap. Since stability is the key, I guess it'll be hard for me to lower ph; as such I am shooting to have a stable ph around 7.6. For BB, I use Eheim 2215 canister filter with Substrat Pro, coarse pad, fine pad, enfi mech, and Seachem Puridem(gets rid of tea tint from my driftwood). It is a 65gal tank . Finally, I have micro bubbles problem too. I am setting up my water-aging equipment this weekend.Guys, when aging water, should one also add "prime" or any other dechlorinator?

[Skip]

Dkeef.. don't hijack another persons thread...

[Discus-Hans]

How long do you have this Discus?? I think you got it this way and think it's not your fault. It's not just a little open, It's wide open and this is not from a few days!
Think this is a damage you bought it with, I sure would return this Discus if you just bought it,

Hans

[dkeef]

I have a 75 black sand tank but i only use enough to cover the surface not for BB use. But i have a cansiter+internal+hob for BB.

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Dkeef.. don't hijack another persons thread...

Im sorry but i thought talking about the same subject would be ok.

Because i didnt mind others arguing about salt on my leopard gill fluke thread.
Im just curious like the op.

[dkeef]

Now to help the op. i wanna let u know that i got a fish that came with one side gill flare like u described and he was breathing hard and flared gill wide open while he was in qt tank.
Now after i moved him into the main tank, in less than a week, i notice that his gills are way less flared. Still little sided but breathing is very normal and gill seems much better.
I think water quality in main tank is better and overall just less stress helped him a lot.
Hope this helps.

[glus]

FYI all: it turns out that we lost power for over 3 hours yesterday morning. That may explain my water parameters being messed up. I assume the BB in my canister filter died during the power outtage.

[BODYDUB]

Because i didnt mind others arguing about salt on my leopard gill fluke thread.
Im just curious like the op.

You're ok............