Is SAFE safe for daily water changes on tanks with cycled media

[8ftbed]

10, 20, 30 and 40g tanks were crystal clear. BB with sponges, the larger ones have AQ70s and three have K1 bottles. 50-60% daily changes with Prime.

I got the Safe in 12 days or so ago and the larger tanks are very cloudy. Smaller ones aren't as bad but not crystal as they were.

I understand Safe is a concentrated form of Prime but it sure looks like its affected my bio filter.

Looking at the label, the fact that it also removes ammonia got me to thinking. Ammonia being the first chemical needed for a nitrification cycle, doesn't eliminating that break the cycle by starving out the first bacteria, in turn reducing nitrite needed by the 2nd bacteria?

I've not seen anywhere if Safe can build up with daily wc's.

[Skip]

Its safe. Dont over think it.

[CrazyAngels]

I use 1/4 tsp per 55 gallons. I've never had any issues with it at all...

[Gene]

SAFE bonds with the ammonia to make it safe for the fish for "x" amount of hours (just like PRIME). The ammonia is still available to be consumed by the bacteria as food.

[aalbina]

Safe (or prime) will chemically alter ammonia creating ammonium. Ammonium is not harmful to fish but will be consumed by ammonia consuming bacteria. Unless you are using way to much, whatever caused cloudy water was probably coincidental to something else going on in the tanks.

Adam

[timmy82]

Safe (or prime) will chemically alter ammonia creating ammonium. Ammonium is not harmful to fish but will be consumed by ammonia consuming bacteria. Unless you are using way to much, whatever caused cloudy water was probably coincidental to something else going on in the tanks.

Adam

Like your work Adam good piece of info!;)

[Ryan]

I've recently switched but I haven't seen cloudy water. All my tanks are the same as they were when I was using liquid Prime. I've been using up to 1/2 tsp in my 55 with no issue.

[Gene]

Safe (or prime) will chemically alter ammonia creating ammonium. Ammonium is not harmful to fish but will be consumed by ammonia consuming bacteria. Unless you are using way to much, whatever caused cloudy water was probably coincidental to something else going on in the tanks.

Adam

Very clear and informative. I retract my former statement lol.

[lipadj46]

Look at your water report and dose accordingly. Safe is safe but you can overdose easier than prime

[troysdiiscus]

I too have switched from liquid to powder safe. No issues no changes, alittle goes along way. Agree with Adam just coincidental....

[8ftbed]

Thanks for the valid input concerning ammonia.

Coincidence crossed my mind as well. Too many things at once and possibly under dosing with safe on 80% wc's the first or second day I started using it.

It'll all come out in the wash and I'll quit 'thinking' when I'm dead or don't care. :)

[8ftbed]

I deduced that I was over cautious with the "do not over dose" statement and had, in fact, been under dosing. Nothing like shooting myself in the biofilter foot. :)

I upped the dosage and per the directions (duh!) dosed for tank volume, rather than the amount replaced.

Now here's a surprise today and maybe an indication I've been habitually under dosing. The cobalt blue piwows from ChicagoDiscus have always been tentative hiders. Anything in the tank with them would pretty much do the same. Last night when I went in to turn off the light the piwows were in mid water. hmmm?
I just got back from the gym and went in to feed and holy crap. The piwows are all fully erect fins, mid water with the 5 pigeons and actually came to the top when I opened the lid. The tank is cloudy white from the mini cycle going on but apparently they like the full dose of safe. They've been growing since I got them but always hung out in the back and bottom. Do you think piwows may be a little more sensitive to chlorine/chloramine? Their behavior was not unique to my own group. They said others who bought the blues reported the same thing.

Anyway, thought I'd drop a dime on myself. I take credit and discredit alike. :)

[DonMD]

I upped the dosage and per the directions (duh!) dosed for tank volume, rather than the amount replaced.
:)

I had always disbelieved the instructions to dose for the volume rather than the quantity of water replaced. I finally wrote to Seachem saying that when I took 50 gallons out of my 100 gallon tank I only used 1 capful, and they replied the next day with a clear answer saying that I needed to use 2 capfuls. I'm not a chemist, and I still don't quite get why you can't just dose for the amount replaced, but now I have learned to disregard my own stupidity and follow directions, too. duh me!

[8ftbed]

Well there you go... We are not alone. :). That's not stupidity in my book Don. It doesn't help that so many products or companies want you to use or do more than necessary.

I can't quite get how you dose per total volume either. I also have a nagging question as to how long it lasts. If I'm changing 50% a day but dosing for 100%, I wonder if it can build up.

Blindly following instructions is not my forte. :) Thanks for the seachem feedback.
/blaine

[Mugwump]

I've been using 'Safe' for some time now....no issues, and no you shouldn't get a build up. I use 1/4 tsp per 55 gals, in my replacement water. You shouldn't add the 'Safe' to the tank after you've filled it.....any chlorine, etc may have already done some harm by the time the 'Safe' can do it's job....

[8ftbed]

Adding safe After. Filling is exactly what seachem says to do.

Quote from the FAQ on their support site:

When treating your system, after you have completed filling up the tank, use the recommend dose for removing chloramines. You will need to dose the entire system water volume because the chloramines have had a change to circulate through your water (if performing a water top off or change from a bucket it is only necessary to treat that the new water).

[a volar]

I dose SAFE directly to the aquarium as soon as I start putting the new water in it.

[DonMD]

I can't quite get how you dose per total volume either. I also have a nagging question as to how long it lasts. If I'm changing 50% a day but dosing for 100%, I wonder if it can build up.

Blindly following instructions is not my forte. :) Thanks for the seachem feedback.
/blaine

You're welcome! LOL. Here's what they said:

Thank you for your email. If you are pre-treating the water before adding it to your aquarium (i.e. treating the 50 gallons prior to mixing in the tank) then 1 capful is sufficient to treat this 50 gallons. If you are adding the water first, and then treating the aquarium, you will need to treat for the whole volume of water in your aquarium (2 capfuls). This is due to the immediate dispersion of Chlorine molecules in your aquarium. As they move freely, you will have to treat the entire tank to be able to remove all of the Chlorine/ Chloramine that was added from the tap during the water change.

I hope that this helps to clarify. Have a nice day!
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