Is this normal?

[Whiskey]

Hello again all!

I had a quick question for you. This is the first time I've seen any of my Discus poop, and I was wondering if this is normal,..
Sorry for the unflattering shot, but it shows what is going on the best.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5502/9403308701_bb8185c655_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94982813@N04/9403308701/)
IMG_8514 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94982813@N04/9403308701/) by Wiskey2727 (http://www.flickr.com/people/94982813@N04/), on Flickr

Maybe I'm being paranoid but I'd seen reference to white poop meaning something and this had me concerned so I figured I'd ask.

All my Discus are new, bought them from a LFS not about a week or two ago.

It should be mentioned that this fish is behaving and eating normally :)

Thank you!
Whiskey

[White Worm]

What food are you using?

[Whiskey]

What food are you using?

I am feeding:
Brine Shrimp
Mysis Shrimp
Omega 1 flake food
Frozen blood worms

Thank you!
Whiskey

[blueluv]

It doesn't look like a blood worm casing. Maybe a from the mysis shrimp

[William Palumbo]

NOT normal. Judging by the size of his eye, parasite for sure...Bill

[Whiskey]

NOT normal. Judging by the size of his eye, parasite for sure...Bill

What kind? And how would you treat?
What does the eyeball size tell you?

Thank you!
Whiskey

[Chicago Discus]

Prazi-pro wait two days and watch the show.......Josie

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?93840-Tape-worm-example-check-this-out

[William Palumbo]

What Josie said. Eye looks too big for the body, usually meaning the fish has/had a poor appetite, and never ate properly, or the parasites prevented him from growing correctly...Bill

[Discus-Hans]

not 100% sure but it almost looks like a tape worm to me?

Hans

[Skip]

Agree with hans.. looks like tapeworm... from pic u provided

[Whiskey]

If it is a tapeworm,.. does that still mean I treat with Prazi Pro?

Thank you!
Whiskey

[Whiskey]

I just bought 2, 4 oz bottles of Hikari PraziPro, I expect to have it in the next couple days.

I did some research and it looks like it is safe for the other fish, bio filter, and plants which is great.

What kind of a timeline am I looking at here? Is this something the fish have likely had for months? Or something they just picked up at the LFS and they are in immediate danger?

Thanks,
Whiskey

[Discus-Hans]

What Josie said: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?93840-Tape-worm-example-check-this-out

Hans

[a volar]

One more vote for tapeworm...........

[Crunchy]

Prazi is very safe for fish. Dose it quickly and within the right amounts and it will solve many issues.

[Whiskey]

They say my Prazi Pro should be here today!
Any final tips before I dose?

Thank you,
Whiskey

[Skip]

They say my Prazi Pro should be here today!
Any final tips before I dose?

Thank you,
Whiskey

read and follow label directions

[Whiskey]

read and follow label directions

Easy enough!

The fish have been medicated - following a large water change, and after shutting off UV and Pulling carbon.

How long before it takes effect?

I put my camera near the tank, if I see anything photo worthy I'll be all over it.

Thanks,
Whiskey

[William Palumbo]

By morning you should see something. Does not take long for the worms to be expelled. Pretty creepy when you see them!...Bill

[Whiskey]

Interesting!
I really hope I get to see it,.. and get a good photo for everyone!

Whiskey

[Whiskey]

I looked this morning before I took off for work, and I see 2 worms coming out of a different fish,.. and just the tip of one poking out of the fish that started this thread.

I got a couple pics,.. I'll see if I can get them up in the next post.

Seems to be working!!!
Whiskey

[Whiskey]

Okay, here it is,.. I didn't get a good picture of the little nub of a worm on the original pictured fish, but this image came out okay for the second fish that appears to be infected.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7451/9424123264_f7e2808e66_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94982813@N04/9424123264/)
IMG_8537 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94982813@N04/9424123264/) by Wiskey2727 (http://www.flickr.com/people/94982813@N04/), on Flickr

Whiskey

[lipadj46]

Vacuum them up right away as they are essentially paralyzed-ish and still may be alive. Don't want your fish eating them again

Treat with Epsom salts after to get them to expel the worms

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[Whiskey]

Vacuum them up right away as they are essentially paralyzed-ish and still may be alive. Don't want your fish eating them again

Treat with Epsom salts after to get them to expel the worms


Is the fish eating them again a concern? Will Prazi Pro not kill them completely? I'll never find them in all the gravel,...

Whiskey

[William Palumbo]

I never saw a fish go after one. All the ones I have seen expelled are completely dead. But as said, I think it's best to remove as many as possible...Bill

[lipadj46]

Is the fish eating them again a concern? Will Prazi Pro not kill them completely? I'll never find them in all the gravel,...

Whiskey

Prazi does not work by killing the worms. It paralyzes them so they can be excreted

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[strawberryblonde]

Oh and definitely use the Epsom Salts! Some fish may become very bound up by the paralyzed worms in their digestive tracts and I'd hate for any of them to die while trying to expel the worms.

Prazi is an anthelmic, which means it's a paralytic agent, so nope, the worms aren't dead till you siphon them out and they dry up and get crunchy. LOL

[Whiskey]

This is a real issue actually - The plants in this tank are very dense toward the back, I'll never find where the worms go,.. and the way I've seen these fish go after blood worms I'm sure they will immediately scoop these things back up again.

Does the act of paralyzing the worms prevent them from breathing or something? Could that kill them? I'd hate to do a huge water change right now because I'd be sucking all the medicine out, and I'll never know if I got the worms out or not.

Thank you,
Whiskey

[strawberryblonde]

It's totally fine to do a large water change, just siphon in the back as best you can. My plants take a fairly large beating every single time I do a water change and so far they've managed to forgive me for it. =)

Ohhhh, and after the water change just redose the tank. You have to retreat anyways to be sure you got all of them, so no worries, a redose won't harm the fish.

[Whiskey]

Check this out! The worm is as big as the fish!!!

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2876/9427531947_27359a6390_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94982813@N04/9427531947/)
IMG_8780 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94982813@N04/9427531947/) by Wiskey2727 (http://www.flickr.com/people/94982813@N04/), on Flickr

Whiskey

[Whiskey]

Soooooo,... this is totally not going to work out.

Today I have witnessed a worm come out of one fish, only to be immediately gobbled up by a guppie.
I saw one discus eat a worm directly out of another discus's hind end.
and,.. the the most disgusting of all - I watched a discus swallow a worm that had not yet fully passed out of her if you catch my drift. I got a picture of this BTW - but I'm not sure you all want to see that.

I really don't see how I could possibly siphon these worms out,.. Everywhere on the net it alludes to the fact that this Prazi Pro kills the worms,.. I hope that is true, because if not then this has very little hope of working.

Maybe the fish will now digest the parilized worms?

Whiskey

[hillbillyamber]

I think I threw up in my mouth a little. Bleeaaach. I am going to treat my angels with Prazi and I am watching to see what you go through before I do it! Do we need to bleach the heck out of buckets etc after use and water area not to spread tapeworms? Can a person get these from the fish? Oh, this stuff gives me the willies! :p

[Whiskey]

Yeah! Right? That bleach question is a great one,.. And I never did consider if I could catch them,.. What about my dog??

I just did my second dose about an hour ago, I can't wait to see if they have worms still,.. or if they passed them all.

Whiskey

[Bilbo]

I think I threw up in my mouth a little. Bleeaaach. I am going to treat my angels with Prazi and I am watching to see what you go through before I do it! Do we need to bleach the heck out of buckets etc after use and water area not to spread tapeworms? Can a person get these from the fish? Oh, this stuff gives me the willies! :p ...im laughing my head off right now. This thread is hilarious!

[hillbillyamber]

I was raised on a small farm and have cats. With cats there was the initial dose and later a second or third. However. with cats you can do a poo sample to take to the vet to check as gross as it is to collect. You know for sure if there is more dosing to do because of the egg cycle. With gravel and plants and all that sounds like a possible pain. I just posted in general discussion about tearing down my 180 and cleaning it to prepare it for Discus as my Angels had something going on while in there. I am going to throw out the sand and start fresh. Tape worms though are the creepiest! Maybe move all fish to a BB tank and treat in that then bleach it after they get cleaned out. But the transfer question, is one I have too! Did you check out Josie's thread on Tapeworms?

[Whiskey]

I am pleased to announce that so far I have no more worms!!!

I have dosed with both Epsom salt and Prazi Pro.

I will do a third dose regardless just to ensure there are no more eggs to hatch, but I'm encouraged by these results.

Whiskey

[hillbillyamber]

awesome!

[Whiskey]

Update!

One fish passed a worm,.. So not perfect yet, but such a HUGE improvement!!! This is definitely working.

Whiskey

[lipadj46]

How attached are you to those fish? I would cull and start over with some good stock so you can grow them to their full potential. Don't buy discus from that LFS again.

[Whiskey]

How attached are you to those fish? I would cull and start over with some good stock so you can grow them to their full potential. Don't buy discus from that LFS again.

I'm attached to them - they are beautiful fish! They may not win a contest, but they look great in my tank, and I don't have the kind of setup that will produce 8 inch fish anyway. My goal is to have just what I've got, beautiful healthy discus in my planted tank.

Whiskey

[Whiskey]

Update!

I've done a 3rd treatment, but I'm not sure if I got worms this time or not. One fish pooped out something that might be a worm, or might not so I'm thinking I may do a fourth treatment next week.

Either way this is DEFINITELY working, I am getting far fewer worms with each treatment.

Whiskey