Gill fluke?

[dkeef]

Please complete thus questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste). The more details you can provide, the better we are able to diagnose and help you treat your sick fish.

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Got 7 new fish from kenny 3 weeks ago.
Noticed eruption leopard was breathing hard ever since i got him but yeaterday noticed he is only breathing with left gill.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Breaths heavy thru left side gill. See clear layer protruding from left gill more than others.
Right side gill is clamped but left is inflamed.
But He is eating well like others.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

None

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
40gal qt tank. Has 7 new fish from kenny. And 1 hero fish from main tank.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
80% wc every other day.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
3months. Bb

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No. Ph is same 7.6 after 24 hrs.

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____82.5

- ph _____ 7.6

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____gotta check

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____100

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
1 hero fish from main tank

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Dave, you might try calling Kenny.

[REC]

Well at least I'm not the only one. I finally had to put my Super Eruption(6") down on Sunday. Once I took him off Furan-2 he would immediately have problems again. After 3 treatments I finally realized his immune system was toast and living a normal life wasn't going to happen. I've also struggled with my Eruption Leopard(6") with gill issues but finally have him stabilized and is doing much better now after 2x Furan-2 treatments. These spotted gene's are very vulnerable and not as established as Kenny's other line's. I would suggest pulling him out and treating with Furan-2 for 7 days and hope for the best. I was stressed out for weeks thinking I was doing something wrong or something was up with my local water all along while my other 7 fish were perfectly fine. I just had an ill fish with a weak immune system that would not adjust to new parameters. Hopefully yours will pull out of it. Goodluck

[Kal-El]

Breathing from one gill is common when something irritates them (Water condition). If it goes a way in a day after clean water changes it isn't gill fluke. Only way to confirm you have it is to check under the scope.

[PP_GBR]

Salt is the name of the game.

Rec

Ship your EL to me if you decide to put him down.

[PP_GBR]

Leopard based fish is very sensitive to water quality.

[REC]

Salt is the name of the game.

Rec

Ship your EL to me if you decide to put him down.

I tried everything. Salt can be a great tool for assisting in disease treatment but every day use in large amounts can be very Detrimental. Salt raises the hardness of the water and can have ill effects on your fish since Discus prefer softer water. I drop one tablespoon in daily with each water change. Any more causes too much fluctuation with the water parameters. Your obsession with Salt usage will eventually lead to the downfall of your Discus.

[dkeef]

It doesnt go away after wc

[PP_GBR]

D:

You know how to PP??? Why don't you call Kenny first? He'll advise you what to do.

[dkeef]

I did. He is out of town but will walk me thru later.
He thinks pp or prazipro.

[Skip]

try table salt for now.. 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons..

if it doesn't clear up over night.. then its something else..

but its not gill flukes.

[PP_GBR]

Go Warlock. S A L T

[PP_GBR]

D

Relax. There is nothing to worry about. Do not put your fish down OK. Rehome him first or ship him to me. LOL

[JERRYKEVIN]

pp-gbr----LMAO

[Kal-El]

PP should take care of all external issue but I would do salt first.

[PP_GBR]

KAL

Go 4 S A L T.


JKevin

I'm glad you had a good laugh. Make you feel young does it?
PP is my first initial and S A L T is my last name LOL

[REC]

KAL

Go 4 S A L T.


JKevin

I'm glad you had a good laugh. Make you feel young does it?
PP is my first initial and S A L T is my last name LOL

There is a major difference between using Salt as a temporary medication as those in this thread are recommending and dosing it daily to keep spotted strains healthy as you said. Salt has its use but as many studies have proven its not healthy for Discus when used at large doses 2tbsp per 10g on a regular basis. Not sure how that's so hard for you to grasp. But then again what is. Please feel free to share picture's of your Discus. I'd like to see the results of this regular salt use. If I have to make the rest of my stock feel uncomfortable to use Salt daily to keep the Leopards from having an outbreak I'll pass on keeping Leopards in general. Although in 4 weeks time salt did nothing to help my Super Eruption. The tank I returned him to after every treatment of Furan-2 was getting daily 80% water changes along with 2tbsp of salt per 10 gallons daily and he still would deteriorate within 2 days.

[dkeef]

Ok so i get home and both gills work!
I did do 90% wc last night. He still breathing kinda hard.
So what does this mean?

[dkeef]

So talked to kenny. And he doesnt think anything is wrong with eruption leopard.
Cuz after wc, other gill opened up and he doesnt scratch at all.
And he eats like crazy.
So again after assuming popeye before on altum then now gill fluke on eruption, im 0-2 in diagnosis. Which is good hehe!

[a volar]

So talked to kenny. And he doesnt think anything is wrong with eruption leopard.
Cuz after wc, other gill opened up and he doesnt scratch at all.
And he eats like crazy.
So again after assuming popeye before on altum then now gill fluke on eruption, im 0-2 in diagnosis. Which is good hehe!

Lol....... so the score is

disease - 0
paranoia - 2

Wich is a good score David :)

[PP_GBR]

Rec

Not sure what I'm doing with salt is good or bad for them but I just had 2 pairs spawned last night. I think they were in a spawning competition. My spotted
leopard pair spawn was very large and they have their own tank. The other pair was the carnation turk/spotted leopard first spawn. I found the newly formed pair, CT/ spotted leopard pair very interesting. The male paired with a SL female 3 times before and now he paired with the CT female in the same tank. I was kind of a bit disappointed because I was hoping for a male out of the 3 CT. It looks like they're all CT females. I'll be very surprised if there are eggs left on the cones when I get home.


@D

Glad your fish's doing well.

[Cullymoto]

try table salt for now.. 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons..

if it doesn't clear up over night.. then its something else..

but its not gill flukes.

Did you just tell someone to use table salt!? Never use table salt. Aquarium salt yes, table salt no.

[Skip]

Did you just tell someone to use table salt!? Never use table salt. Aquarium salt yes, table salt no.

Yes is did.. sodium chloride is sodium chloride. .

But one is cheap .. and one is not

[Kal-El]

Did you just tell someone to use table salt!? Never use table salt. Aquarium salt yes, table salt no.

Should be fine as long as it's non-iodized salt.

[JERRYKEVIN]

Table salt has a caking agent in it.

[George001]

I also heard that table salt has caking agent in it. Is the caking agent save? Can I still use regular table salt?


George

[100fuegos]

Oh dear.. it can be found with no additives at all. Look for NaCl 100%, I even used dish washing machine salt, it was 100 % NaCl

[George001]

Thanks 100fuegos.

George

[Skip]

i have been using table salt.. no iodine.. for 3 years.. no problems

[George001]

thanks warlock4169, I was wondering if regular non iodized salt was ok. Will now be using it. Cheaper then aquarium salt.

George

[PP_GBR]

George

Buy a 40 lbs. bag of Morton solar salt @Home Depot for about $5.00. It should last you a long time. I just stocked up another bag. LOL


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/54/546e932b-a296-42cf-aaeb-d23523de7fbb_300.jpg

[JERRYKEVIN]

PP-WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR AVATAR???? Morton was down today on the NYSE because of that

[Skip]

http://www.google.com/search?ei=3xH7UcmXGoj48gSV64DwAg&q=is+solar+salt+safe+for+fish&oq=is+solar+salt+safe+for+fish&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.12...4744.17638.0.19326.43.39.0.1.1.4.434.532 5.1j9j11j1j2.24.0.ehm_pq_signedout%2Chmss2%3Dfalse %2Chmmql%3D2...0...1.1.23.mobile-gws-serp..29.14.3221.IzhbfwUt96g

[yim11]

Not sure what I'm doing with salt is good or bad for them

If you aren't sure if it's good or bad doesn't it seem very irresponsible to constantly recommend it? What if its bad? How many fish did you hurt or kill?

What if what these fish vets say is true:

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/koipond/salting_fish.html

It's great you have a good experience with salt, but to blindly recommend it to others without letting them know you are unsure if its good or bad is wrong IMO.

[100fuegos]

Again... The article you linked starts with this "We have been selling fish medications for 39 years now, and in the last couple of years... hobbyists are using salt by the ton on their fish as some kind of new "wonder drug". We would like to explain what happens to freshwater fishes, when exposed to high sodium levels over periods of time."

See my point? Do you know marine water has a concentration of around 30 - 35% of salts that equals to 35 grams per liter or 132.46 grams of salt per US gallon?(most of it is NaCl) Do you Know that adding two spoons of salt per ten gallon of fresh water is only 35 grams per 37.85 Liters or a concentration of 0.9 %?

Marine water 35% salt
Recommended dose: 0.9 % salt

Do not see how can such a low concentration can damage discus fish when exposed to it during a short period, let's say 10 days.

[PP_GBR]

Jerry

Discus keeps poking holes in my pocket so there is no fund left for investments. Had no idea Morton stock was down. I thought I'd change my avatar for couple days since Rec asked me to show my fish. It just happened I had two pairs spawned @ the same time, so I took some pix for him. Too bad my camera skill is suck. Could not take better pix of them.

Warlock

99.8 % pure sodium chloride. Processed from salt water, no additives added, I couldn't ask for anything purer than Morton Solar salt. Have you seen the salt? I could take some pix to show what it looks like. Not much difference than API aquarium salt.

@Yim

Why did you quote the complete sentence? Of course, I know it's good for my discus. I had two pairs spawned in one night and I think that the ways my fish are telling me they are very happy with what I've been doing for them LOL

So it's OK for others to recommending salt but not ME????? I feel I'm being cyber bullying here.

I have not kill one fish using salt but I could easily kill them with food. Please tell me you have never been using salt to treat your discus.

Not sure if you are indirectly or directly recommending medications over salt when you posted the link but you know what if salt kills the fish so does the meds. If I kill my fish with salt then it's still cheaper than to spend $$ on meds and at the end they still die LOL.

I read it many times from here, from one person's posts who you know very well that meds would kill fish. And if I remember correctly, he even said you can't stop healthy fish from spawning. In other words, if my fish is not healthy, they would not spawn, right?

Peace

[Skip]

Warlock

99.8 % pure sodium chloride. Processed from salt water, no additives added, I couldn't ask for anything purer than Morton Solar salt. Have you seen the salt? I could take some pix to show what it looks like. Not much difference than API aquarium salt.


i didn't say there was.. i posted a link from search results for the term "is solar salt safe for fish"
maybe people are NOT familiar with SOLAR SALT>. link is for people to do their own research and make their choices..

[REC]

Again... The article you linked starts with this "We have been selling fish medications for 39 years now, and in the last couple of years... hobbyists are using salt by the ton on their fish as some kind of new "wonder drug". We would like to explain what happens to freshwater fishes, when exposed to high sodium levels over periods of time."

See my point? Do you know marine water has a concentration of around 30 - 35% of salts that equals to 35 grams per liter or 132.46 grams of salt per US gallon?(most of it is NaCl) Do you Know that adding two spoons of salt per ten gallon of fresh water is only 35 grams per 37.85 Liters or a concentration of 0.9 %?

Marine water 35% salt
Recommended dose: 0.9 % salt

Do not see how can such a low concentration can damage discus fish when exposed to it during a short period, let's say 10 days.

I could post half a dozen other column's showing the ill effects of long term Salt use in high dosages. Again the key here is long term and high dosages. Using it as a medical aid for a short period of time has proven to be ok. No one here is arguing that. I add one tablespoon of salt daily with my 80% waterchange in a 110g (very low salt to volume content) because it seems to help to keep my adults calm during that size of a water change. I really don't see your logic when comparing the salt content of Salt Water fish aquarium's compared to the dosage's you treat your freshwater tanks with. These fish have completely different water requirements. There is no comparing of the two. Its simple really, there your fish so do with them what you please. But regardless of what you think studies have shown that daily long term salt use will be detrimental for your freshwater fish especially Discus.

[lipadj46]

So it's OK for others to recommending salt but not ME????? I feel I'm being cyber bullying here.


Solar salt is not food grade salt and has more impurities than food grade salt as it is just sea salt evaporated from ponds and not further refined. I have used it, table salt with iodine, table salt with iodine and anticaking agents, really does not matter you can use any NaCl except for road salt though it is probably fine too. I only use it for minor scrapes and cuts not sure if it really does anything. Its not the end all cure-all by all means and should not be a copy and paste recommendation like it seems to be from some people. If your fish is really sick use a real medication, if not change the water, well change your water anyhow.

[blueluv]

Hey dkeef

How is your discus doing so far?

[nc0gnet0]

Do not see how can such a low concentration can damage discus fish when exposed to it during a short period, let's say 10 days.

Yup, does'nt do much for external parasites either. Salt baths are almost completely useless for anything but the mildest of external bacterial infections, and when that IS the case, plenty of clean water will do the trick. People like PP_GBR have been around for years, and because of them almost every known parasite as well as most bacteria has developed salt resistance, rendering the treatment very ineffective when used as a bath. Dips can be effective, however I prefer PP over a salt dip.

PP_GBR please stop, at least ten times a week now you are advising the use of salt for one sickness or another, you seldom take the time to actually diagose the problem, rather you take a shot in the dark at it and prescribe salt. I recall a certain thread in which you prescribed the use of metro on a fish cancer?

I asked you once why you prefer salt so much and your reply was "it's cheap"! Well so are guppys my friend, so are guppys.

Rick

[dkeef]

Hey dkeef

How is your discus doing so far?

Thanks for asking. Well kenny thought its not gill flukes.
Both gills are working but the left side one opens more and he still breaths hard.
He eats well and doing great.

Could totally healthy discus still breath hard without any disease?

Im gonna transfer the fish in qt tank including the eruption leopard into main tank tomorrow.
Still wondering if i should do 30min pp bath just in case?

Hero fish from main tank is totally fine.

[Kal-El]

Wow this thread is getting out of hand... Salt usage is fine for bloat and other minor external issue... Even Espom salt has been proven to cure holes in the head when added as solution mix to food. Salt can be a great way to take care of minor issue when clean water cannot fix. Long term high dosage os salts will of course harm the fish, but why would some add high dosage for a long time when its recommend for short term usage.

[Allwin]

I had similar issues and increase the water aeration will help for sure and as always keep up with ur wc. Good luck..

[Allwin]

+100


PP-WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR AVATAR???? Morton was down today on the NYSE because of that

[PP_GBR]

Master Rick

Per your request Master Rick, I changed my avatar for you. You were the one who started me on the salt ad campaigns and now you don't like it. Oh, please make up your mind.

Regarding the cancer fish, were you the first one who properly diagnosed the fish with your naked eyes or it was just merely a wild guess? Even after the fish got send the aquatic vet, the Dr. was not even 100% sure until he send the tissue samples to the pathology lab for testing. If the OP said the fish was treated with Metro initially, I'd not recommend Metro.

I'm not one of guppy people but one of Flowerhorn ppl here. You are saying here parasite/bacteria would develop salt resistance. How about drug resistance? Please elaborate.

So it's ok for other to recommend salt but not me? I feel I'm cyber bullying again.

At least we have one thing in common here: You like to use PP and so do I. Yes, I use salt but I never will salt bath the fish. I'm glad you like my initials PP. LOL

Where were you when others recommended salt/salt bath to members here? Why did you speak up and express your concerns or recommending other treatments?

Anyone could recommend treatments here and it is up to the fish owner whether or not they would follow the suggestions.

I own my fish and I have the rights to treat them the way I feel safe for them. If it's safe for my fish then I'd recommend it to others.

Whatever you want to do/treat with your fish is not my concerns but do not stop me from using/recommending salt.

If someday down the road, my fish become very sick and the only way to save them is medication then I will knock on your door for your help, Dr. Rick.

Please respect others and others will respect you. P E A C E.


Don

Thank you for your suggestions and kindness. I'm on top of daily wc. I'd skip feeding them but never wc.


Kal

See what I meant. I feel I am cyber bullying again

All

I'll change it again. Glad the whole world have good laugh on this. Very comical, is it?

[Skip]

Cyber bullying?!