Need Help with unusal cloud eye

[sheldon r]

This is my first post on Simply Discus...
I am from India,mumbai.
I noticed my 4 out of 9 discus have cloud eye...
The pupil seems to be white, they dont react to hand moments.
I do 50% water change daily.
I was on holiday when my mother used to siphon the tank and feed BHM. However they caught an infection.
I have tried, myth blue nad now using Melafix.
Its been 5 days since i noticed this.
A Discus frnd says they r blindnow and cull them, however it is hard step to take.
I will share a pic too.. Plz provide any help possible to this situation.

[Tazalanche]

BEFORE starting a new thread requesting help, please copy and paste the Disease Questionnaire and fill in the required information. This will help people give more timely and considered advice.
Please click here for the Questionnaire! (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete) You'll get more accurate help if you do the questionnaire.

Good luck.

[Skip]

You'll get more accurate help if you do the questionnaire.

Good luck.
+1

[sheldon r]

The fish have cloudy milk white pupil. Not eating, i noticed ot 5 days ago. Unusual thing, i went for a holiday
My mother feed BHM, but i guess couldnt siphon it well. 2 discus died.
But the ones witj cloudy eye were all ok. But as i treated with tetracycline. The other became well. And these got cloudy eye.

2. Symptoms (i.e. cludy eye, only pupil white and excessive slim)
3. What medications/ treat. I have tried tetracycline for 3 days. Now using melafix. 5ml for 10 gallon. Everyday.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.. Tank size.24*20*15. W*h*d. Size of fish3" number,6.

5. Water change regime (50% everyday)

6. How long has tank been running? 4 months now, bare bottom,

7. Do you age your water? I dont age water, i use municipal water stored in my tank for 24 hours. No idea of ph swing.tests r very expwnsive here in india.

8. Parameters and water source;
WAter parqmeter. Temp 30.C
Teste cannot do. Very rarely found in india. Very expensive too. 10 US dollorsfor single test per parameter.

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

-municipal water, kept 24 hours in storage tank, with hypo.

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____

9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.none...

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If

[Tazalanche]

Cloudy eye is often a sign of poor water quality. Without knowing your water parameters in the tank, or from your source water, we cannot be positive. You didn't mention what kind of filtration you're using either.

Melafix will not do anything for your situation. Stop the meds, do a 75%-90% water change today & then 50% or more daily after that.


If you have the ability to do so, add granular activated carbon to your filtration for a few days to help get all of the meds out of the aquarium's water. Also, as soon as possible, you need a bigger tank. If my calculations are right, your tank is about 30 gallons & getting too small for the number of discus that remain.

Good luck.

[sheldon r]

I do have a bigger planted tank. The filteration is a bio sponge filter. I have started doing 50% water change twice a day.
I was told by my LFS that cloud eye will have the entire eye turn white... But in this case only the pupil has turned white.
Is it true that my discus have turned blind? Or in cloud eye only the pupil can turn white..?

[Skip]

you didn't give much detail at all in your questionnaire.. pretty much just pencil whipped it..

have you ALWAYS been going 50% wc.. or did you start AFTER you saw a problem?

[sheldon r]

I have always been doing 50% wc. The unusual bit is the only the pupil has become white....

[Skip]

Post 6 more times.. post pic

[sheldon r]

Ok.

[sheldon r]

The discus is leaving excessive mucus

[sheldon r]

Sorry doing this to post pic which will help me better

[sheldon r]

.

[sheldon r]

.sorry guys doin thos for pic.

[sheldon r]

Well hopefuoly the last post ... After this will post pic

[Tazalanche]

More detailed information in the questionnaire would help too.

[sheldon r]

I still cannot post pics

[Tazalanche]

You have to have more than 10 posts to include images. Your eleventh post is the first one that can include images.

Since you're now at 11, keep trying. You'll figure it out.

[sheldon r]

Does it give me to add an image from my pc or do i have to add it through aURL?

[sheldon r]

Do simply discus allow me to add images from my PC or do i have to add it through a URL

[sheldon r]

79804

[sheldon r]

This is how the discus eyee looks. is this cureable. The discus breeder here in the area says he has seen this for the first time

[sheldon r]

7980579805

[sheldon r]

This is how beautiful my other discus are. I am very stressed for the condition of my sick discus. Please help....!!!!

[Tazalanche]

Completely fill out the questionnaire & take a photo of the fish with light on it & no flash from the camera. It still looks like a water quality issue, which cannot be disproven without testing the tank and source water.

[sheldon r]

There is no lights in the tank. Water quality is very difficult to test... The test kit is veey expensive... I can get a picture for u..
The pic of the discus doesnt determine if its cloud eye or something else?

[strawberryblonde]

If you took that picture using the flash on your camera, then what we're seeing may be partially a reflection due to the flash. Can you take a picture without using the flash?

If you need to upload a picture to this thread (instead of using an URL), go to the bottom of the post and click on "Manage Attachments". From there you can upload a picture so long as it's less than 40kb in size. I use a photo editor to reduce the number of kb's while also keeping the photo at about 600x600 pixels.

If you can't edit your photo's, sign up for a PhotoBucket account and upload your pics there, then link to them using the standard "Insert Image" option. Just paste in the URL of our photo on PhotoBucket.

[strawberryblonde]

Ok, that post was regarding photo's, now to address a couple of important things.

1) Assume that your discus aren't blind. Until you have tried to correct the cloudy eyes, you won't know for sure if they actually are blind.

2) Bad, or dirty water is the most common cause of eye problems. By doing more water changes you can usually clear up eye problems.

3) When you do your water change, be sure to rinse out the filter media in used tank water in order to get decaying food and feces out of it.

4) Once we can see a picture of your discus without flash we'll be better able to advise you on whether to treat with meds.

[sheldon r]

Will take a pic without a flash. i have started doing 50% twice a day...

[Skip]

This is how the discus eyee looks. is this cureable. The discus breeder here in the area says he has seen this for the first time

if this is how it looks like, i would say no.. camera flash is normally red.. this is white

that sure as heck is not CLOUDY EYE>. looks like a cataract..

[sheldon r]

Can cataract affect 3 discus at a time? And dat to in couple of days? Not challenging ur knowldege, jus optimistic for their condition.

[Skip]

ooh.. more than one.. i don't know..

[strawberryblonde]

Still waiting for a picture without using flash on the camera. It's the only way to be able to be sure of what we're seeing since cloudy eyes can look super white in a flash picture.

[sheldon r]

I have taken a pic, will post it soon.
However did notice that the eye has cleared jus a bit...
Also they r notblind coz they were getting out of the way of the siphon pipe unlike before...
So will continue with large water change...
Wil share the pic soon...

[sheldon r]

Hi.. The discus seem to be recovering. Sorry for not posting pics yet.. Was working overtime this week.
Will post it tonite.

[sheldon r]

This is the pic without the flash on.. the discus seem to be recovering.
Their eye seem to be a little popped out.
Should i use any medication to speed up the recovering process?

[sheldon r]

Hi, guys any help on if any medications required to expediate the curing process

[Tazalanche]

You've basically ignored the majority of our suggestions, as well as requests for more information that could help us to help you.

What more do you expect from us?

[sheldon r]

Hi david, i have followed all the steps... Doing large water changes, used activatedcarbon pads, to remove meds.
sent a pic witout flash on.
Onlycouldnt afford the test kit.. As i previously mentioned its very expensive here in India.
Im using all the advise given by U experts.

[sheldon r]

Hi team... Apologies if you thought that i am not using ur advise.. Actually should have updated the steps
By step process.. Only thing not done is the tests... Their eye seem to improving a little...
Hiwever tgey havent eatin for more than 2 weeks... Plz help me with next steps...
I really need ur advise... Or i may lose 3-4 discus...

[Allwin]

Hey Sheldon,Glad ur fishes are getting better. Maintaining discus fishes are comparatively expensive/challenging unlike any other tropical fishes, but going forward definitely u need to have test kit to know ur water parameters/conditions or even to decide whether it needs medication or not. Discus fishes can go fasting for a while, don't worry about that now. Just keep up with ur water changes. Possible post ur tank pictures, how your biological filtration process is maintained and any other filtration u use? which part of India ur from? TC,Bye..

For Test Kit-try ebay-India shipping search, good luck.

[sheldon r]

Thank u for the reply Allwin n also others... I will purchase a test kit may be in couple of weeks...
I am using a sponge filter with an additional carbon sponge... The affected discus dont really swim around.
Their eyes are getting much better as days passes...
How much will a test kit cost in the USA?
BTW I am from Mumbai.

[troysdiiscus]

hey sheldon, the resistance you are getting is because the biggest piece of the puzzle that is missing is your water parimeters. This is key to figure out is it a water quality issue or not. Its like calling a doctor and giving a diagnoses over the phone, could give you some maybe's or meds but could do more harm than good. Until you can get a test kit (which is a must have) continue doing big WC.

[PP_GBR]

Sheldon

I understand where you're coming from. Test kits are more expensive than discus. If the fish is not going to make it then let it be. In the meantime, remove the carbon. Can you get some Indian almond leave? I'm not saying it will cure but it's worth to try.

Please check ur PM.

[sheldon r]

Thanks for the reply guys... Im going to continue the water change procedure...alomnd leaves, definately.
I have a indian almond tree in my back yard... Jus to compare prices, how much would a test kit cost?

[strawberryblonde]

Here is a Master Test Kit that you can buy from ebay: API Freshwater Master Test Kit (http://www.ebay.in/itm/API-Freshwater-Master-Test-Kit-Over-800-Tests-Best-Price-/190878825317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item2c7143bb65&_uhb=1#ht_1503wt_1268)

It's not cheap, but it should last a very long time. I've been using mine for 2 years now.

[PP_GBR]

S

Explore this site. Ken has the best prices and he offers free shipping. Not sure about free international but you could inquire.

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/test-kits/test-kits.html

[sheldon r]

Will get the one available from ebay.. I will order it now... Its almost double the price from kens..

[sheldon r]

My lfs have given me copper sulfate drops... He says this will cure any discus problem..
Be it skin, internal, eye, slim, etc... I havent used it yet, kinda scared to use it...
Any advise on its usage? Should i trust the LFS...

[khoiluu]

This is my first post on Simply Discus...
I am from India,mumbai.
I noticed my 4 out of 9 discus have cloud eye...
The pupil seems to be white, they dont react to hand moments.
I do 50% water change daily.
I was on holiday when my mother used to siphon the tank and feed BHM. However they caught an infection.
I have tried, myth blue nad now using Melafix.
Its been 5 days since i noticed this.
A Discus frnd says they r blindnow and cull them, however it is hard step to take.
I will share a pic too.. Plz provide any help possible to this situation.

As my experience, I'd like to recommend like that (for discus size over 7cm only):
- First step: Put your discus into KALI PEMANGANAT Liquid (Rate/concentration: 0.1mg per 10litres water). Duration: 10~20 minutes. Observe the reaction of your discuss carefully and take him out immediately if he swims upside down.

- Second step: Prepare a treatment tank with Tetracycline (Rate: 500mg per 20litres water) or Japan Tetra. Treat your discuss in this tank at least 3 days but no longer than 5 days. Daily water change and add Tetracycline.

Note:

KALI PEMANGANAT means Potassium Permanganate

Japan Tetra for fish for ur reference
http://www.google.com.vn/imgres?imgurl=http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9295/tetravang.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.aquabird.com.vn/forum/showthread.php?t%3D62129%26page%3D1&h=217&w=329&sz=89&tbnid=9gWqqmJenECjsM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=120&zoom=1&usg=__pXBgdys2zXKd54ytNqsJK9Upex8=&docid=FeVQuLur5_gYDM&sa=X&ei=w-QWUt2CIqiZiQe81YGwAw&ved=0CFQQ9QEwAw&dur=1703

Good luck!

[PP_GBR]

Thanks Khoi.


Sheldon

I'll check with Khoi for the KALI PEMANGANAT. I'll give you the brand name for Japanese Tetra. Please check ur PM.

[discusbananas]

Do not use pottasium permaganate or your japanese tetra . The cause may be very low pH while you were away and has burned the eyes . All you can do is let time heal

[Tazalanche]

Do not use pottasium permaganate or your japanese tetra . The cause may be very low pH while you were away and has burned the eyes . All you can do is let time heal+1
This is not a situation where blindly throwing more meds at it will help. Until we can verify water parameters, water changes & time are your safest bet for cloudy eye.

[sheldon r]

I have ordered the kit from ebay, should be with me in 4 working days now.. Im doing 75% daily water change.
The discus eyes r improving... They havnt eaten since 25 th of last month... Little concerned on that.
Will post parameters soon... Til then time will do its thing...

[sheldon r]

The pics i have attached are of my albinos. they seems to not recovering from the popeye.
They eat well. move well, but the eye is popped.

Any thing i can do. it been a month now.

i have stopped treatments.
My test kit arrived.

The parameter looks like.
PH: 7.1; KH: 4°dh; GH: 9°dh; NO2: 0; NO3: 10.

anything i can do to improvise.

[nc0gnet0]

kanamycin, treat for 14 days (internal eye issues take a while to treat).

[Madaboutdiscus]

Here is a Master Test Kit that you can buy from ebay: API Freshwater Master Test Kit (http://www.ebay.in/itm/API-Freshwater-Master-Test-Kit-Over-800-Tests-Best-Price-/190878825317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item2c7143bb65&_uhb=1#ht_1503wt_1268)

It's not cheap, but it should last a very long time. I've been using mine for 2 years now.

+1 I was just getting ready to post try ordering one from ebay. What about amazon? Are they strictly american? Not sure anyway definitely look into that.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[sheldon r]

Will try kanamycin.. How to go about the treatment.. What steps should I follow.
My tank is 30 gallon... So how much should I use? How much water change should I do? Should I continue feeding?

[sheldon r]

Will try kanamycin.. How to go about the treatment.. What steps should I follow.
My tank is 30 gallon... So how much should I use? How much water change should I do? Should I continue feeding?

[sheldon r]

Hi all,
I have started the treatment with Kanamycin, its been 3 days however doesnt seem to be working.
I use 500 mg in 20 gallon. With 50% water change, feeding is only tetra,2 times a day.
Should I continue the treatment till 10-14 days? Or there is something else I can do?

[nc0gnet0]

You will not see results this early, continue treatment for at least 14 days.

[sheldon r]

Thanks Rick... Will continue to do so....

[sheldon r]

Hi Rick this the 8th day.. Its seems to be helping but the improvement is very slow....
Just hoping they will recover in another week..

[Quintin]

Have you got any sharp objects in ur tank as i have noticed discus can injure their eyes on numerous things if they are jumpy and there has been a thread on someones 1 discus having every kind of bad luck possible.the discus has since healed up but has a huge scar over the eye can still see fine.also have u tried treating water with salt at all as this is not always advisable.

[nc0gnet0]

Hi Rick this the 8th day.. Its seems to be helping but the improvement is very slow....
Just hoping they will recover in another week..

Thats a good sign, stay the course. The one variable here is I have no experiance with liquid form kanamycin, but I cannot see why it should be any different.

[sheldon r]

Hi qiuntin, no sharp object in my tank.. The discus are not very jumpy too.

Hi Rick, im on course for the kanamycin, well forgot to mention, tge kanamycin for the vial,
is in powder form, they give 5ml distilled water in a separate container. So I skip the distelled water and jump the power stright in.
Hopefull this should help..

[sheldon r]

Also just wanted to check can popeye get in a permanant state, which doesnt harm the fish, but the eyes stay poped?

[nc0gnet0]

Your fish have popeye as well? You did not mention this......

[sheldon r]

Hi Rick, I did mention the fish have Popeye, also attached the pics.ON tge 10th of this month.
Well I have tried kanamycin for a 14 day treatment. Didnt cure it.. The eyes are popped like before.
Water parameter is prestine... Do 75% wc everyday.. Should I stop the treatment. Assuming this popeye is now premanent state.
Becoz the fish eat well, swim well...

[nc0gnet0]

I would like to see some pics after treatment.

[Quintin]

How are your discus doing now.There was a thread where one discus got injured and sick for like 2 years and he eventualy got better just has scar over one eye but can see fine.keep him in hospital tank for a while dont give up im quite sure given enough time things will go back to normal again

[sheldon r]

HI all,

Here are the pics,

The condition seem to have worsened.

The fish seems to be doing really well apart from the popped eye, im afraid it might just pop right out and become food for the others.

What can i do to improvise, or is this a permamnanet situation. The condition is being like this since 28th July.

Ive tried all the methods of medication above. Ritte from tetraoxycycline to Kanamycin.

What can I do to make this beauty better?

[sheldon r]

My local doctor said if it doesnt improve, then try the syringe to pop the eye and let the liquid ozze out.

It might improve.

However i dont want to be aa mad scientist and try an experiment. with my best and rarest fish.

[PP_GBR]

Sheldon

Try this or wait for Jim and Master Rick:

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/bloat_dropsy_popeye.shtml

HTH

[nc0gnet0]

Has the cloudy eyes dispapeeared or improved? A lot of time this type of swelling in the eye can be caused by a tumor underneath the eye, and sadly, not much you can do about it.

-Rick

You have already gone through a course of medication, I would not recomend anything but lean water for at least 2-3 weeks.

[sheldon r]

Hi Rick,

the doctor advice to pop the ye wit a syringe?

U think it will help?

[nc0gnet0]

Well I would pop the eye, if you went that route (uncharted territory for me admittadly) I would insert the needle behind the eye. Did the cloudy eye clear up?

[sheldon r]

Yes Rick, the cloud eye cleared up for a couple, the others i gave it to a frnd.
But the albino never had cloud eye, their eyes got popped...
So should i just pop the eye with the needle? Kinda scared to perform this....

[nc0gnet0]

Like I said I never tried this, I would just leave it myself (just re-read what I typed earlier, meant to sy "If I were to pop the eye"). give them lots of clean water and as long as they are looking, acting, and eating fine just leave if be, unless it gets worse.

[brewmaster15]

HI Sheldon,
I got your PM...On this fish in question with the popeye, If Kanamycin did not cure this its possible that its not something that can be cured..I would not try popping that eye, what you are seeing when you see a fishes eye swell like this is generally pressure coming from behind the eye...could be an infection, could be a tumor...sometimes the infection is somewhere not even near the eye...but the body responds by producing fluid in response.

The only thing I could suggest is to place the fish in a magnesium sulphate bath (epsom Salt)...it may help drain the fluid...would try 1-2 tablespoons per 10 gals. may take at least a week to work.

Its a long shot...
the other thing you can try if you are desparate is another antibiotic...oxytetraycline or minocycline....but first I would try the epsom salt.

best regards,
Al

[strawberryblonde]

HI Sheldon,
I got your PM...On this fish in question with the popeye, If Kanamycin did not cure this its possible that its not something that can be cured..I would not try popping that eye, what you are seeing when you see a fishes eye swell like this is generally pressure coming from behind the eye...could be an infection, could be a tumor...sometimes the infection is somewhere not even near the eye...but the body responds by producing fluid in response.

The only thing I could suggest is to place the fish in a magnesium sulphate bath (epsom Salt)...it may help drain the fluid...would try 1-2 tablespoons per 10 gals. may take at least a week to work.

Its a long shot...
the other thing you can try if you are desparate is another antibiotic...oxytetraycline or minocycline....but first I would try the epsom salt.

best regards,
Al

+1

I just had a discus who injured his eye 14 months ago. It has been bulging out ever since then as he battled several bacterial, viral and fungal infections. Some were just in the eye, others were internal or external infections.

My final try at getting him healthy was a 10 day treatment with Minocycline. That was well over a month ago. It worked and he is perfectly healthy now, but still had the bulging eye.

Here's the good news. As his immune system is now "kicking in" and he is eating well 4 times a day, the swelling in his eye has finally started to recede! Its only been this past week that I've seen the eye return to normal size (I had thought it would always bulge and just got used to it).

So what I'm saying is that you should try following Al's advice of just epsom salts to try to reduce the fluid behind the eye. He's been sick for awhile now and it may take a long time for his immune system to respond enough to heal any possible bacterial infections that are causing the eye to pop.

On the other hand, it's possible that it's a tumor and in that case it will never get better...but you won't know for sure till you let him recover on his own for quite some time. It's not an overnight thing...be patient.

[sheldon r]

Thanks Al, toni and rick...

I will try the epsom salt treatment..
Jus one clarification, when using epsom salt what is the water change schedule u want me to follow.

[sheldon r]

Hi guys, the popeye discus seem to be recovering well now... I just kept fingers crossed, 50% wc
4 drops of blue liquid,temp at 29.c
This seems to be working really well....

[sheldon r]

Hi guys, the discus has recovered completely... Eating agressively, eye is normal...seems all wel ro me...thanx for ur help...

[PP_GBR]

Sheldon

Good job. What is blue drop? Methelene Blue (sp)? Did you use Epsom salt?

[Allwin]

good job with them..


Hi guys, the discus has recovered completely... Eating agressively, eye is normal...seems all wel ro me...thanx for ur help...

[robinsanyal]

congratulations

[whitezo6]

good job