Discus dark and gill membrane protruding

[Russ]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Discus is dark half the time time, breathing heavy and the gill membrane is protruding on both sides, she is eating ok.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Discus is dark, breathing heavy and the gill membrane is protruding on both sides and is clearish white. She is eating ok.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

I tried PP when I first noticed and she perked up and increased her appetite but the gill membranes never went back in and she is still dark half of the time.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
90 gallon, 4.5", 8 discus same size, 20 Rummy nose tetras and 2 bristle nosed plecos

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
75% every other day

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Running 8 years, sand bottom 1/2" thick.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
I age the water for 2 days and use 50% RO 50% tap

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _86 deg____

- ph _____ 7.4

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____ 50%

- RO water ____50%


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No

[PP_GBR]

R

What kind of equipment/filter/decoration do you have in the tank? When was the last time you clean them and where is the fish? Is she in QT tank? Which strain is she?

[Russ]

I have an Aqua clear 110 and Aqua Clear 50 on the tank and I clean them with every water change, for decorations I have some plastic plants and driftwood. I treated the fish with PP a week ago in a QT tank but she is back in the display tank now. She is a Carnation Snakeskin.

[strawberryblonde]

How old is she?

[PP_GBR]

Russ

Was she looking better in QT after PP treatment by herself? How much PP did you use? How did you clean your AC filters? Did you remove the impeller and clean with a small brush/toothbrush?

I'd add more airstones in the tank to help her breathing. If she is doing better alone then I would move her to QT, add airstones in her tank for more observation while you figure out what's going on in your main tank.

[Russ]

She is around 4.5" and still young.

I only had her in the QT tank for the PP treatment, she looked good after the treatment so I put her back in the display tank. She looks healthy in the display tank and is eating well but is darker then the other Carnation SS's half the time, and has the protruding membranes. Some one told me it may take a while for the gill membranes to go back to normal after the PP treatment, but it has been over a week with not much improvement. I clean the sponge inserts in a bucket of tank water with every WC, I hardly ever clean the impeller. I used the amount of PP to turn the water slightly pink for 10 to 12 hours.

For the time being I think I will continue to observe in the display tank and add another airstone and if she gets worse I will quarantine her. Thanks for the advice.

[PP_GBR]

R

You need to clean your AC filters. Remove the impeller to clean the sharp with a toothbrush. If you have sponge filter, unscrew the base to clean inside. Clean the decors too.

I just treated my spotted leopard with PP. She was breathing like a puffer. I dose PP the same way like you, light pink, and let it work overnight. Then I re-dose PP the next morning. After 8-10 hrs, I clean the tank, do WC and add 2TBSP rock salt/10 gal.

This won't be the last time you have this issue with your SS fish. You'd see it again. So pay attention to the fish. When the fish starts to breathe faster with one gill and turn dark, then it's time to PP again.

I'd add a power head in the tank if you don't have one in there. If you're going to retreat her with PP, keep her in a QT after treatment for more observation.

What are feeding your fish?

[Russ]

I'll clean the impellers and decorations tonight, I feed beefheart mix and freeze dried black worms. Thanks again.

[PP_GBR]

You may want to switch to freeze dried BH and adding flakes, so much easier for you to keep the tank clean. I don't feed mine with BH mix but with BH flakes from Kensfish. Mine all love it. I don't know how other fellows feeding BH mix in planted/sanded tanks. All of mine are BB and I find very hard to keep it clean. Always find minute particles on the floor. That's one of the reasons why I have power head in the tank to help the filter pick- up wastes/uneaten food.

Anyone feeding with BH mix in planted/sanded tanks please chime in. How do guys keep the tank clean?

[Russ]

I have a eheim vacuum and clean the leftovers between feedings.

[Russ]

How would I tell if the gill problem was bacterial instead of flukes?

[lipadj46]

How would I tell if the gill problem was bacterial instead of flukes?

I would say 99 times out of 100 it is bacterial. Doing a scrape and looking for flukes under a Scope is a way to know for sure.

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[Russ]

Is there a way to tell with out using a microscope, I don't own one.

[lipadj46]

No not really

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[Russ]

I believe it may be bacterial because her eye's look duller lately maybe slightly cloudy and there is a slight amount of mucus on the gill membranes, which antibiotics do you think would work best?

[lipadj46]

I believe it may be bacterial because her eye's look duller lately maybe slightly cloudy and there is a slight amount of mucus on the gill membranes, which antibiotics do you think would work best?

Furan-2 is a mild yet effective antibiotic for external infection

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[Russ]

Does Furan-2 kill the good bio bacteria, should I run a filter in the QT tank or just an air stone?

[lipadj46]

Does Furan-2 kill the good bio bacteria, should I run a filter in the QT tank or just an air stone?

No it does not, run a filter

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[Russ]

Thanks, I will let you know how it turns out.

[PP_GBR]

If I was you, I'd treat the main tank. I find Furan-2 works better (more effective) if you add salt to the tank, 2tbsp/10 gal. One can argue that it's not necessary because Furan-2 has salt in it. The salt in the Furan-2 is so little even each dosage contains about 80% salt. But each dose weights about 3grs, including the wrapper. Roughly about2.4 grs salt per 10 gal. I don't it's enough.

[Russ]

I put her through a treatment of 4 days with Furan-2 and salt but there was no real improvement, the gill membranes are the same and she is still a little dark and has slightly cloudy eye's. Do you think I should switch to a different antibiotic?

[Brotoss]

Any improvement using the Furan-2?I have the same problem wanted to see if Furan-2 was the key to this mystery.
I put her through a treatment of 4 days with Furan-2 and salt but there was no real improvement, the gill membranes are the same and she is still a little dark and has slightly cloudy eye's. Do you think I should switch to a different antibiotic?

[Russ]

There was no real improvement with the Furan-2, but I put her through another PP treatment and it did improve the gills but her eye is still a bit cloudy and she is still darker then the other discus, but I think that may be from fighting, the other 2 Carnations paired off and are giving this fish a bit of a hard time.

[Madaboutdiscus]

Move your pair to a tank by themselves. Everyone will be much happier.

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[PP_GBR]

Russ

Where is the fish now? You may want to send DiscusBR(aka Mauro) a PM. He just treated his wild successfully.