I'm betting that no one else soaks their food in this 'pick me up'.

[Bilbo]

So i'm into fitness and health and blah, blah, blah. There are a few things that I consume that causes me to really feel a difference. Don't want to disclose it just yet. I started feeding one of these things to my discus. Actually, I started soaking their FDBW in it and not only do they love it, but their colors have picked up as well, even in just 2 days of me doing this. Check out the colors on these Forrest RT. I'll give you a hint. It is 100% all natural and has LOTS of natural sugar in it but has a TON of natural vitamins and minerals in it as well. I consume this natural goodness myself when I want to heal from an injury. I think i'm on to something here with my discus....

[blueluv]

Green Vibrance?

[JERRYKEVIN]

Moonshine??

[blueluv]

Moonshine??

Lol! That's only when he wants to breed them

[JERRYKEVIN]

Lol Chris

[Trac]

Moonshine??

I like that....LOL

[Crunchy]

Honey

[Keith Perkins]

So is this thread just a tease or...?

[jmf3460]

lovely fish, you are right their colors are very vibrant. now about those tanks???

[Second Hand Pat]

pro-growth

[blueluv]

Green Vibrance?

Bump :D

[Bilbo]

lovely fish, you are right their colors are very vibrant. now about those tanks??? Those tanks are fine. Been doing it this way for years and years with all my fish. This particular tank that you see in the pics is stained with dead algae. I bleached the tank to sterilize it before Kenny's discus arrived and then changed all the water out, added back aged water from my outside holding tanks and threw a little dechlor in it. The stain on the sides stayed (which is what i wanted) and this will help jump start the algae and benifitial bacteria colony that will eventually establish itself there. The water column needs to stay fresh and clean and free of free floating organic particles and the tank bottem needs to be free of accumulating detris and mulk. The stained sides of the tank do absolutely nothing but help me out. I want as much benefitial bacteria in my tanks that I can get and the tank walls and floor work well in housing it. The discus' slime don't do a dang thing but get broken down by the healthy bacteria colony. No, if a person keeps that water column sparkling and the mulm cleaned up then he will have healthy discus. Planted tanks are no different. There is no way a healthy established planted tank gets each of his pebbles in the substrate 'wiped down'. Nor does this 'wipe down' process happen in the wild. Yes, yes "lots of rain water, etc... etc.." but there is still no wipe down. Ever. That water column. That's where it's at. I also aim for algae growth on the sides of my tanks. Bu this particular tank is new and though it already had stain on the sides before I added these discus in it, it has not had time to get my algae growth in it that I love. The tank just finished cycling 4 days ago though. Only took a week and a half.
Oh, and btw, when I want a beautiful tank to look at, I set up a planted display or a Rock or wood display. When I want breeder tanks I do them ALL like this.

[Bilbo]

Honey

Was that comment for me or were you guessing what I used?

[Bilbo]

So is this thread just a tease or...? Haha.... maybe? Naaa, just wanted to see if anyone could guess it.

[du3ce]

weight gainer

[zimmjeff]

spill it

[blueluv]

Green Vibrance?

Tease! Lol. Double bump :D

[musicmarn1]

sweet potatoes?

[musicmarn1]

hey if we guess right, you should at least tell THAT person, because id like to try it too :)

[Kal-El]

One thing is confirmed in your pictures... your tank needs a good scrubbing... lol

[a volar]

One thing is confirmed in your pictures... your tank needs a good scrubbing... lol

Definitely.......lol

[blueluv]

Food coloring:p

[Discus-n00b]

Vitamin C?

[zimmjeff]

crack??????????

[Bilbo]

One thing is confirmed in your pictures... your tank needs a good scrubbing... lol

Not a chance, lol. Unscrubbed walls has always contributed to part of my success. A bare tank with just clean glass is hideous to me. If I keep bare breeder tanks (which I always do) I deliberately aim for algae and dirty tank walls.

[Bilbo]

sweet potatoes?

You my friend, are the closest yet.

[Chicago Discus]

Beets

[Allwin]

Asian Paints:confused:
http://www.bestmediainfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Asian-Paints-New-Brand-Identity-Launch.jpg

[Bilbo]

Beets
Hottest yet. Lol, i'm shutting up now

[blueluv]

Hottest yet. Lol, i'm shutting up now

GINGER ROOT ?

[Bilbo]

Ok guys. I'll let you in on it. For years I have juiced. When I want to heal from an injury I juice. When I want to increase vitality I juice. When I want to get stronger I juice. Juicing is good for lots of things. And not the 'dead' juice you find in stores. It offers nothing as it's pasteurized. So I got to thinking, why not offer it to my fish? They need natural vitamins and minerals as well. Juicing is perfect for that. Not to mention beats and carrots offer red coloring. So I started soaking their fdbw in it before feeding time. They GORGED themselves on it. Bellies swollen, happy discus. I figured fdbw would work good for this because they soak up the juice and rehydrate themselves. I noticed the vitality and color of my fish explode. I also got a spawn and more preparing to spawn.

[Bilbo]

I juiced a beet, sweet potato, celery, carrots, spinach, and lychee. Sometimes I change it up. I was debating on sharing this info but this forum has been good to me so I thought I would give back. Make sure to keep a small white container of it with a tight lid to minimize oxidation and light neutralization.

[Bilbo]

GINGER ROOT ?

Haha! Did that last week. Lit my kids up! That stuff is hot!

[Chicago Discus]

I also use a secret ingredient. For those of you that purchase our beefheart your fish already get it. It's natural from the amazon river basin and discus eat it in the wild. It's a great antioxidant and vitamin supplement for them. It keeps my discus healthy and eating like little pigs. After a little more testing from a food scientist (Mad Scientist) we will release our results and share it with you guys. We have been using it for over a year with great results..........coming to a Forum near you ...... Josie

[discuspaul]

Not a chance, lol. Unscrubbed walls has always contributed to part of my success. A bare tank with just clean glass is hideous to me. If I keep bare breeder tanks (which I always do) I deliberately aim for algae and dirty tank walls.

Well, if you aim for algae and unscrubbed, dirty tank walls, that seems more than just 'odd' to me .... 'clean is hideous to you'.... unbelievable .... I can just imagine how you live overall.
And you still haven't told us what kind of juice ???
Wow - takes all kinds.

[Chicago Discus]

Well, if you aim for algae and unscrubbed, dirty tank walls, that seems more than just 'odd' to me .... 'clean is hideous to you'.... unbelievable .... I can just imagine how you live overall.
And you still haven't told us what kind of juice ???
Wow - takes all kinds.


LOL....Paul you cracked me up when I read this ......Josie

[blueluv]

Haha! Did that last week. Lit my kids up! That stuff is hot!

A member here (Chad Hughes) who use a product called green vibrance for his discus.

[Bilbo]

Well, if you aim for algae and unscrubbed, dirty tank walls, that seems more than just 'odd' to me .... 'clean is hideous to you'.... unbelievable .... I can just imagine how you live overall.
And you still haven't told us what kind of juice ???
Wow - takes all kinds.
You don't worry about how I live or what I like. You just concentrate on keeping to the context of this thread and you will be doing fine. I promise you, you don't want to compare life styles, homes, and life achievements. So let's just stay on topic.

[musicmarn1]

well i love the juicing idea, and i cant wait to see what Josie reveals ! i have custom made dog food with sweet potatoe, raw 100% organic locally produced turkey and ingredients, been testing it on dogs for AGES and got the same ladies to make my beefheart/shrimp mix for me, i think ill soak my freeze dried blackworms too in the dogfood ! (fresh made every week) what do you think any reason not to? carrots sweet potatoe, vitamins and minerals its close to what they make for me for the fish, with the beefheart and shrimp its all 100% the cleanest food we can get here. thanks for the tips guys i REALLY appreciate it

[Bilbo]

The key to juicing for your discus is to do it while the juice is fresh. Not dead. Same thing with us humans. Dead juice does us no good.

[blueluv]

The key to juicing for your discus is to do it while the juice is fresh. Not dead. Same thing with us humans. Dead juice does us no good.

What do you mean by dead juice?

[Kal-El]

Interesting... Never thought of using my juice maker to mix a good Juice mix and dip the FDBW in it before feeding... I may have to try this out. What fruits and veggie is a good combo?

[Allwin]

FDBW soaked in carrot juice, does the water gets metal smell quick? Just curious.

[Kal-El]

I thought about using steroid to juice my discus from

This
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/imageher/50DB243A-17EB-4A7F-BE4D-46ACEAC177FD-2460-000000F17EB3AAF7_zpsb195f740.jpg

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


To this!
http://nwmtnman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/belgian-blue.jpeg

;)

[blueluv]

I thought about using steroid to juice my discus from

This
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/imageher/50DB243A-17EB-4A7F-BE4D-46ACEAC177FD-2460-000000F17EB3AAF7_zpsb195f740.jpg


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


To this!
http://nwmtnman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/belgian-blue.jpeg

;)

Lol!!! You'll have the Arnold Swhazenneger of discus. Ya! Get to the making of my juiced fdbw Now! Lol

[Bilbo]

FDBW soaked in carrot juice, does the water gets metal smell quick? Just curious. No way. When I first started doing it I was concerned about this. But now I just pour the entire contents in. If you are worried about cloudy water then I would only just put the worms in. However if you have a good established filter and/or you are doing massive water changes then cloudy water isn't an issue. My filter takes it right out.

[Bilbo]

Interesting... Never thought of using my juice maker to mix a good Juice mix and dip the FDBW in it before feeding... I may have to try this out. What fruits and veggie is a good combo? Anything you would juice for yourself, just save a little in a container for your discus. As for me, I aim for a fairly wide variety of minerals and vitamins and trace elements. The trace elements aren't going to last long since they oxidize fairly quickly but your fish will still get some.

[Bilbo]

And let me tell you, the blues are standing out on these turgs like crazy. I am about to go to work this morning and am looking at them right now. The colors are even more intense now than in the pics above if you can believe it. In other words, it looks like the effects of the juicing haven't reached their peak yet. This is awesome. I'll take some more pictures later.

[Bilbo]

What do you mean by dead juice? A person who is in a car accident and needs blood from a donor will need 'live' blood, correct? Live meaning that the blood is active and working for it's intended purpose. If that same person received pasteurized blood then that person would die. He or she would actually get blood poisoning from that transfusion. It's similar with juicing. Look at it this way. You are literally after the life force of that plant. You want it's precious energies. When they pasteurize that liquid energy they kill it, put it in a bottle, sometimes add back stuff to it, and say "hey, drink this V8, its awesome for you". What they don't tell you is that it's virtually just fiber at that point and although it has a few beneficial nutrients in it, it is no where near the potency of when it was live. This is not simply theory btw, this is proven fact. Milk is the same way. That crap is bad for you because they pasteurize it.

[blueluv]

A person who is in a car accident and needs blood from a donor will need 'live' blood, correct? Live meaning that the blood is active and working for it's intended purpose. If that same person received pasteurized blood then that person would die. He or she would actually get blood poisoning from that transfusion. It's similar with juicing. Look at it this way. You are literally after the life force of that plant. You want it's precious energies. When they pasteurize that liquid energy they kill it, put it in a bottle, sometimes add back stuff to it, and say "hey, drink this V8, its awesome for you". What they don't tell you is that it's virtually just fiber at that point and although it has a few beneficial nutrients in it, it is no where near the potency of when it was live. This is not simply theory btw, this is proven fact. Milk is the same way. That crap is bad for you because they pasteurize it.

Wow, that I did not know. It makes sense the way you explain it to me. Thank you for the explanation and have a wonderful day. :)

[MostlyDiscus]

Just thinking that's great for vits and mins. Try putting a little bit of powdered amino acids in there as well. May help with size. Ed

[SMB2]

A person who is in a car accident and needs blood from a donor will need 'live' blood, correct? Live meaning that the blood is active and working for it's intended purpose. If that same person received pasteurized blood then that person would die.


Stick to juicing.
Nobody gets "live blood". All transfused blood is cold stored and has preservatives to prolong shelf life (up to 6-7 weeks). In rare circumstances fresh whole blood is used for clotting factors, but for obvious reasons hard to come by. Plasmonate ( a volume expanding blood plasma) is used all the time and is pasteurized to prevent the risk of hepatitis.

[Bilbo]

Just thinking that's great for vits and mins. Try putting a little bit of powdered amino acids in there as well. May help with size. Ed

Naaa, i'm good. I don't take amino supplements in my human diet. Everything is all natural so I can live as long as I can. Same goes with my fish. They get their aminos naturally. Growing like weeds.....

[Bilbo]

Stick to juicing.
Nobody gets "live blood". All transfused blood is cold stored and has preservatives to prolong shelf life (up to 6-7 weeks). In rare circumstances fresh whole blood is used for clotting factors, but for obvious reasons hard to come by. Plasmonate ( a volume expanding blood plasma) is used all the time and is pasteurized to prevent the risk of hepatitis.
Incorrect. Everyone who gets blood will get it live . Red blood cells are not pasteurized. And cold storage does nothing to it if done properly. It's still live. And plasma can be modified, but i'm talking about live red blood cells. Those can not be pasteurized else they will be killed and no longer useful to the human body. Ever seen cooked blood? It turns dark.

[Bilbo]

Look, this is also just an example that I was using. Let's not try and make this more than what it is. Juicing works, lol.

[Keith Perkins]

So when is the juice going up for sale?

[Bilbo]

So when is the juice going up for sale?

Lol, Walmart has a TON of it.....they beat me to it!

[Bilbo]

Wow, that I did not know. It makes sense the way you explain it to me. Thank you for the explanation and have a wonderful day. :)

Your welcome! Give it a shot. It works! Also don't pay any attention to the insecurity in this thread. They seem to have trouble staying on track with the topic.

[SMB2]

Ever seen cooked blood?

Seen more blood in my life then you ever could imagine. No insecurity here friend. You obviously have a thing for fresh juice products, but it is coming over like one of those infomercials.
However your blood analogy is a poor one, because banked blood is hardly fresh, like your juice. While the RBCs are indeed alive, almost all the other factors (like clotting factors) are lost in the process.

Glad the juice works on your Discus. A nice controlled study in the lab section would be interesting.

[Bilbo]

Seen more blood in my life then you ever could imagine. No insecurity here friend. You obviously have a thing for fresh juice products, but it is coming over like one of those infomercials.
However your blood analogy is a poor one, because banked blood is hardly fresh, like your juice. While the RBCs are indeed alive, almost all the other factors (like clotting factors) are lost in the process.

Glad the juice works on your Discus. A nice controlled study in the lab section would be interesting. You just admitted that the red blood cells are indeed alive while up above you said "Nobody gets "live blood"." I'm glad you now agree that RBC ARE alive as they make up a VERY important component of human blood. That's good because that's exactly what I was saying from the get go. The human body has to have live blood, period. Did you know that there are also dead components of fresh raw juice as well? Does it make the rest of the juice dead? No, it does not. There are live cells and active enzymes in fresh raw juice. That's why it's called live juice in the health food world. The analogy stays. I don't care if you like it or not. I also don't care if I sound like an infomercial to you. I have nothing to gain by disclosing this information. In fact, at first I thought I would just keep this discovery to myself but then thought that would be selfish. And there are sooooo many tips and secrets- especially when it comes to breeding- to the discus hobby that people don't want to share because of their own agenda. And why I do understand that it is sometimes not good business to 'tell all', this bit of information that I discovered is not going to harm me in any way. If you want, try it and tell us what you think. Or, if you don't want, then don't try it. But lets try to be cool about it.

[Skip]

do you have before pics of the fish?
it really hard to see the difference .. and the flash doesn't help..

[Bilbo]

do you have before pics of the fish?
it really hard to see the difference .. and the flash doesn't help..Yes I do in another part of the forum. And as long as the flash is turned on in both sets of the pics one will be able to see the difference in their pics when making comparisons, subtle as they may be.There is not a big difference in color compared to the first time I posted them here but there is a noticible difference. There is a difference in their vitality as well. All of it was noticeable within a day or two of juicing. It may have been just the natural vitamins in the juice that gave the discus what it needed to function closer to their full potential. Whatever the case, I love it and am already sold on this method and will continue. My sole purpose was to share my excitement and to encourage others who may want to try this to go for it. It's awesome!

[strawberryblonde]

I'm just gonna put this out there, even though, as bilbo has pointed out, it really hasn't got much to do with the possible benefits of soaking worms in a fruit/vegetable juice mixture. This is just food for thought (see how I worked that pun in right there?!)

When it comes to juices and milk, there's a whole league of "experts" out on the internet and writing books right now. It's current, it's hot and it's totally the "in" thing at the moment. So, as with all other hot, in things, I apply a fair amount of research and logic to the subject before I make up my mind on whether or not it has merit.

Think of it this way:

If your last name is Atkins and you are selling a book about the most foolproof diet EVER invented, are you really going to say anything negative about it or point out possible problems with it?

If you opened up a chain of gyms and want to make a metric buttload of money so you can pay off your loans and buy a boat, a plane and a villa in the south of France are you going to tell people that they can get the same physical benefits by getting down on the floor in their living room and doing pushups and crunches and alternating it with some days of lifting gallon milk jugs filled with water?

If you bought a franchise to sell the latest mystery herb concoction that promises to make your life vibrantly healthy and reduce the risk of cancer are you going to tell people that they can get the same nutrients for 1/4 of the price by eating a balanced diet?

The same goes for juicing. Yes, there are slightly more nutrients retained in freshly juiced fruits and veggies, but it's only a slight benefit. I've checked out all the research and the maximum amount of any vitamin or mineral (carotenoids included) that you lose through PEF pasteurization is 13%. For most vitamins, etc. that number is around a 7% loss through the process.

What that means, to me, is that I get exactly the same benefits by either a) eating my fresh veggies whole and unaltered, or b) drinking an extra few tablespoons of pasteurized juices. Heck, to be really safe I can just drink an extra half cup.

What juicers (the ones promoting the machines and the recipes) are really doing is selling an idea, a lifestyle, and an emotional high. It's the feeling that you are somehow doing something awesome for your body that others haven't discovered yet.

It's a popular way to sell most anything these days and explains how car manufacturers can manage to keep so many different models on the market. =)

So there you have it...my personal viewpoint on juice.

Carry on... I'm really curious to see if juicing discus continues to show benefits to healthy and vitality over the course of a year!

[Bilbo]

I'm just gonna put this out there, even though, as bilbo has pointed out, it really hasn't got much to do with the possible benefits of soaking worms in a fruit/vegetable juice mixture. This is just food for thought (see how I worked that pun in right there?!)

When it comes to juices and milk, there's a whole league of "experts" out on the internet and writing books right now. It's current, it's hot and it's totally the "in" thing at the moment. So, as with all other hot, in things, I apply a fair amount of research and logic to the subject before I make up my mind on whether or not it has merit.

Think of it this way:

If your last name is Atkins and you are selling a book about the most foolproof diet EVER invented, are you really going to say anything negative about it or point out possible problems with it?

If you opened up a chain of gyms and want to make a metric buttload of money so you can pay off your loans and buy a boat, a plane and a villa in the south of France are you going to tell people that they can get the same physical benefits by getting down on the floor in their living room and doing pushups and crunches and alternating it with some days of lifting gallon milk jugs filled with water?

If you bought a franchise to sell the latest mystery herb concoction that promises to make your life vibrantly healthy and reduce the risk of cancer are you going to tell people that they can get the same nutrients for 1/4 of the price by eating a balanced diet?

The same goes for juicing. Yes, there are slightly more nutrients retained in freshly juiced fruits and veggies, but it's only a slight benefit. I've checked out all the research and the maximum amount of any vitamin or mineral (carotenoids included) that you lose through PEF pasteurization is 13%. For most vitamins, etc. that number is around a 7% loss through the process.

What that means, to me, is that I get exactly the same benefits by either a) eating my fresh veggies whole and unaltered, or b) drinking an extra few tablespoons of pasteurized juices. Heck, to be really safe I can just drink an extra half cup.

What juicers (the ones promoting the machines and the recipes) are really doing is selling an idea, a lifestyle, and an emotional high. It's the feeling that you are somehow doing something awesome for your body that others haven't discovered yet.

It's a popular way to sell most anything these days and explains how car manufacturers can manage to keep so many different models on the market. =)

So there you have it...my personal viewpoint on juice.

Carry on... I'm really curious to see if juicing discus continues to show benefits to healthy and vitality over the course of a year! I thought the same thing before I started juicing. In fact, I fought it tooth and nail with my friend who is even more into health and fitness than myself. Finally he asked me if I tried it. I told him no. So I did and discovered that it works. If you have never juiced on a regular basis and then you start and keep with it for a few weeks you WILL see the difference. No if ands and buts about it. Juicing is NOT a silver bullet and is not a cure all. But it is one of the MANY factors in healthy living that contribute to quality of life. I can give you a entire list of things that you could do to improve your quality of life if you are not already doing them. I have done this for many friends and they are grateful for it.
Now, that being said. Fresh juice is WAY different from pasteurized juice. It's not about how much more vitamins and minerals are in raw juice versus pasteurized. It's about the 'type' , condition and form of minerals, enzymes and vitamins that are in it. And let me tell you, it's not even in the same ball park. If you indeed want to go down this path of raw juice versus pasteurized juice I can post you a SLEW of information on why its not even the same. Much of the information comes from private studies. But like all things, we can choose to believe what we want. I as well, often question the source of the information put out there. You have to else you will be in danger of being naive and 'sold'. But ultimately you have to do what makes best sense to you as the consumer and what works for you.
Try juicing. It works. It makes sense. Here is a thought... why do you think so many of our fish meds and human meds say keep out of direct light? Why do you think so many of our fish meds and human meds neutralize and become worthless if they are heated? This is common knowledge folks. The info is out there. It's because if you heat it or put it in direct light it becomes worthless. There are tests out there. Common knowledge tests that show the oxidation of juice after you juice it. That's why you are supposed to drink it right then and there if all possible. If not then you are supposed to quickly store it in a tight container that light can not penetrate. This is no big secret or cover up. This is fact.

[Bilbo]

Also, Strawberry, I have books from the 50s talking about the same pasteurize versus non. And in the same books they talk about some of the things that we are discussing right now about juicing. This is not a new concept at all. The problem is that doctors and the medical world (as a whole) don't want you to do these things....naturally. Why? Because they won't make the amount of $$$$$$ that they make now. The money is in the treatment, not the cure. It's kind of like what Chris Rock said years ago "They ain't NEVER curing aids. Money in the treatment, not the cure." Now whether he was right or not I do not know, but I get the point. Same principles apply to some of the stuff we are talking about.
Ever heard of Joanna Budwig? Look her up. Fabulous woman. Treated some awesome illnesses with juicing, flax seed oil and just good ol fashioned healthy living. Don't always simply believe what other people say about healthy living. Do as much research as you can, study, ask questions and apply. If it doesn't work or you have your doubts then you have the right to stop. But don't just listen to what everyone tells you and allow them to spoon feed you everything they say as being fact. Same with this diet I have my discus on with these juice soaked FDBW. I really don't care if anyone here trys it or not. I LOVE IT! If you want to try it then go for it. Don't do it only because I say it works. Try it for yourself and if you don't see a difference in their over all health, discontinue it. No skin off my back. As for me. I will continue it because i'm a believer.

[Skip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD8e4Mg3NFU

[strawberryblonde]

I gave juicing a whirl for about a year, back when I was also hitting the gym 5 days a week. It was my "year of me", I had just turned 50 and was having a mini moment. LOL

Truthfully, I saw no benefit. I feel just as healthy and full of energy when I eat raw fruits and veggies and combine them with the requisite amounts of proteins and carbs per day. Will I live longer? Hmmm, that begs the question "longer than what?!". My genetics are great. Long line of family members who have all lived well into their late 90's, with only one person (my maternal grandfather) dying young, at the age of 58. Sadly, he worked in an asbestos filled environment.

I also get just as much benefit from doing my crunches on the floor in my house and using 1 gallon milk jugs instead of free weights. I also prefer hiking in the mountains to dig for gems to using a stair machine and/or treadmill.

You're right that there are many many studies on the ill effects of pasteurization from the early part of the last century. Thank goodness the process has changed over the last 70 years!

Private studies are fine, so long as they are not bought and paid for by someone with a vested interest in certain types of results. They also need to adhere to strict protocols and well documented methods. Oh my, I could wax on for hours regarding the veracity of studies done and the results that make the headlines. LOL

So yep, I think each person has to carefully think through all the myriad options and latest fads out there and then pick and choose which ones they want to try, then discard them if they don't prove to have benefits.

You like juicing and feel it works for you...I say "good on ya!", keep doing what makes you feel good. =)

[strawberryblonde]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD8e4Mg3NFU

"The film has been credited with doubling the sales of Breville juicers since the documentary launched on Netflix in the US in July 2011"

"Joe Cross is an Australian entrepreneur and investor who invests in early stage high potential growth companies. These include investments in the fashion, transportation, private equity finance, derivatives trading, early childhood education, structural steel distribution and health and wellness sectors."

If you refer back to my first post on juicing, you'll see that I mentioned that no one who is making money from a "hot product" is going to be a reliable source of truthful information. =)

[Second Hand Pat]

Many of us who use BH and/or seafood mixes do place a fair amount (50% for me) of raw pureed veggies and fruits (with the juice) in our mixes, bag it and freeze it. So the benefit, should there be one, might already be there.

[Bilbo]

I gave juicing a whirl for about a year, back when I was also hitting the gym 5 days a week. It was my "year of me", I had just turned 50 and was having a mini moment. LOL

Truthfully, I saw no benefit. I feel just as healthy and full of energy when I eat raw fruits and veggies and combine them with the requisite amounts of proteins and carbs per day. Will I live longer? Hmmm, that begs the question "longer than what?!". My genetics are great. Long line of family members who have all lived well into their late 90's, with only one person (my maternal grandfather) dying young, at the age of 58. Sadly, he worked in an asbestos filled environment.

I also get just as much benefit from doing my crunches on the floor in my house and using 1 gallon milk jugs instead of free weights. I also prefer hiking in the mountains to dig for gems to using a stair machine and/or treadmill.

You're right that there are many many studies on the ill effects of pasteurization from the early part of the last century. Thank goodness the process has changed over the last 70 years!

Private studies are fine, so long as they are not bought and paid for by someone with a vested interest in certain types of results. They also need to adhere to strict protocols and well documented methods. Oh my, I could wax on for hours regarding the veracity of studies done and the results that make the headlines. LOL

So yep, I think each person has to carefully think through all the myriad options and latest fads out there and then pick and choose which ones they want to try, then discard them if they don't prove to have benefits.

You like juicing and feel it works for you...I say "good on ya!", keep doing what makes you feel good. =) Lol. If you are not feeling the benefits of juicing and you are eating your fruits and vegetables like you say you are then that is why. Because you are getting your raw fruits and veggies. I do the same. Where I start pumping the juices is when I don't feel like eating 5-8 different types of raw vegetables but want to get the benefit of all of them. But you are right, raw vegetables will give you the same thing. Juicing is just a much more concentrated form. But the fdbw method works well with me because the discus absorb the things in the juice quickly before it oxidizes. The worm sucks those nutrients in and the worm itself is thin so the discus absorbs more of the nutrients out of the worm before all the nutrients are neutralized because of the heat of the tank. That's why I prefer this method over chopping veggies up and putting/blending them in beef heart. Its not the same. Same goes for when humans when we juice. You will get the most benefit from it by doing it on an empty and hungry stomach. If the stomach is full then a lot of nutrients from the juice will be neutralized by the time the body gets to it.
As far as pasteurization, yes they did it a different way back then but their are books out there from that era as well as today that express upon the heat which destroys the nutrients of the liquid 'live' product. The methods in which they pasteurized were different back then but the principle was still the same. Heat it. Destroy the bacteria. But you also destroy other vitals as well. Just like my example of fish and human meds. Once heated they often loose many of their properties. Same with milk and juices. This is not speculation. This is proven fact.
And milk jugs and crunches on the floor? I promise you if you let me train you with free weights that you would get much, MUCH more benefit out of it. Your body's potential will never be even close to reached with a milk jug and crunches. This is also fact. And why I know that there are different levels of improvement a person can take one's body, the gym will give you way better results. Let me train you and ill show you, lol.

[strawberryblonde]

ROFLMBO! Trust me, at my age I don't want to get more out of my exercise routine. I've reached a point in life where I no longer feel any pressure to be "perfect" or even "svelte, sleek and sexy".

It's ok! I'm strong, have nice biceps, can lift the other end of my 115 gallon tank when my husband and I move it, don't have back troubles and can still whip nearly anyone's you-know-what in a 100 metre race in a swimming pool.

Not skinny, not fabulously well muscled, not about to wear a bikini ever again. Very happy though and liking myself just the way I am. =)

Like I said, if it works for you, go for it. Just letting others know that they don't need to feel pressured to do the same thing...that all things in moderation works well too.

[SMB2]

So what exactly is your formula? Are there possibly some vegetables that are toxic to fish/discus. Are you suggesting fresh every day?

Would you consider dividing one of your tanks (so water conditions are constant) and putting one group of discus on each side; feeding one standard FDBW and the other with your mix? Then report back with images. It would be hard to measure vitality,
unless it was by successful spawning and fry hatch numbers.

Lots of people have some expensive discus and food is critical to their care, so isn't it a lot to ask them to take a leap of faith on your recommendation? I am glad it is working for you but for most people that might not be enough reason to switch. If you think you really are on to something a little more hard evidence would help. If you are just reporting anecdotally then a lot of folks here will not likely share your excitement.

(Not to beat a dead horse, but RBCs are not strictly alive. They lack organelles, a nucleus and don't reproduce. Many consider them a well specialized recyclable "bag" for carrying Hgb. Further your statement that cold storage has no effect is completely misguided as stored RBCs have a very short life span when transfused, and are taken out of circulation in a matter of days as opposed to months.)

[Bilbo]

"The film has been credited with doubling the sales of Breville juicers since the documentary launched on Netflix in the US in July 2011"

"Joe Cross is an Australian entrepreneur and investor who invests in early stage high potential growth companies. These include investments in the fashion, transportation, private equity finance, derivatives trading, early childhood education, structural steel distribution and health and wellness sectors."

If you refer back to my first post on juicing, you'll see that I mentioned that no one who is making money from a "hot product" is going to be a reliable source of truthful information. =)

Hand juice your veggies then, lol. Fact is it works. Don't care how much money they make off a product if it works. There are MANY things that work that are on the market for every aspect of life. If companies find out that people are interested in it then they are going to market it. That's simply good business. Nothing new there. If you would like a break down of my physical come-back from my decrepit life style and want a lay-out of all the injuries that I have healed from because of a combination of healthy living -some exclusively from juicing- and want a break-down of my gym achievments for my age that none of my other local peers can even come close too because of my application of what I preach, then we can definitely go there. I really don't want to argue about who's right or wrong about this juicing thing. I would rather you try it on your fish and see if you like it or not. I even have one of the main members here that just messaged me while ago wanting to know what to get. He/she is actually going to at least try it for themselves. I respect that. A lot actually.

[Bilbo]

Many of us who use BH and/or seafood mixes do place a fair amount (50% for me0 of raw pureed veggies and fruits (with the juice) in our mixes, bag it and freeze it. So the benefit, should there be one, might already be there. Definitely a good idea. I have done this for years, as well, in my beef heart mixtures. Its not the same though. Before the fish actually absorbs some of the precious nutrients of the veggies, many are already neutralized by the heat in the tank. That is why people will get more benefit from juicing and eating raw veggies on an empty stomach or at least first before their meal. Most people don't know this. I "think" the reason why my fish are doing so much better on this method of soaking Al's FDBW in them is because the worm is so thin. The discus is immediately able to get to that juice right away.

[Bilbo]

ROFLMBO! Trust me, at my age I don't want to get more out of my exercise routine. I've reached a point in life where I no longer feel any pressure to be "perfect" or even "svelte, sleek and sexy".

It's ok! I'm strong, have nice biceps, can lift the other end of my 115 gallon tank when my husband and I move it, don't have back troubles and can still whip nearly anyone's you-know-what in a 100 metre race in a swimming pool.

Not skinny, not fabulously well muscled, not about to wear a bikini ever again. Very happy though and liking myself just the way I am. =)

Like I said, if it works for you, go for it. Just letting others know that they don't need to feel pressured to do the same thing...that all things in moderation works well too. Right on! And if you can lift the other end of a 115 gallon and move it then I tip my hat off to ya. Sounds like you are fit to kill! lol Oh, and please don't think I am into fitness because of looks only. Aesthetics is last on my list. I love fitness because it ups my quality of life. It helps me get around in this shell of a body more easily and comfortable and allows me to have a certain "tools" that at times have come in handy.

[Bilbo]

So what exactly is your formula? Are there possibly some vegetables that are toxic to fish/discus. Are you suggesting fresh every day?

Would you consider dividing one of your tanks (so water conditions are constant) and putting one group of discus on each side; feeding one standard FDBW and the other with your mix? Then report back with images. It would be hard to measure vitality,
unless it was by successful spawning and fry hatch numbers.

Lots of people have some expensive discus and food is critical to their care, so isn't it a lot to ask them to take a leap of faith on your recommendation? I am glad it is working for you but for most people that might not be enough reason to switch. If you think you really are on to something a little more hard evidence would help. If you are just reporting anecdotally then a lot of folks here will not likely share your excitement.

(Not to beat a dead horse, but RBCs are not strictly alive. They lack organelles, a nucleus and don't reproduce. Many consider them a well specialized recyclable "bag" for carrying Hgb. Further your statement that cold storage has no effect is completely misguided as stored RBCs have a very short life span when transfused, and are taken out of circulation in a matter of days as opposed to months.) Not going to continue with the RBC discussion. To my knowledge, no man has ever made a replacement for RBCs for if they have we would no longer need blood donors. It was simply an analogy. Whether you agree with that analogy or not is not relevant to me adding juice to my black worms. Lets move on, please.

As far as testing my method and all that, lol. I just started doing this, dude. I am not asking ANYONE to try it that doesn't want to. I started doing it and noticed a difference in the way they were acting and a difference in their color on the very next day. Nothing more. See the title? It was not a topic to try and sell some product I have. It was not a topic to make people feel this way I do about juicing. It was not even a topic to imply that my way was better than anyone else's way. It was to share my excitement about what I have discovered. Nothing more. If other people don't want to get this excited about an untested method then hey, that's ok, lol. But for the record. There are several people on this forum that are already interested. VERY interested. And that's what I thought would happen. It's just a thread, man. I don't have an agenda here. I love this hobby is all.

[aalbina]

I'm with you Toni - I've done the research, read the books, attended the seminars - I'll just eat my raw fruit and raw veggies the old fashion way. If you were eating an adequate amount of fruits and vegetables in raw form and then started juicing like I did - you would feel, see, and test no different. The problem is most people don't eat enough fresh fruits and vegetables so juicing provides a sexy/in/current/healthy alternative to eating them - so they see benefit. I've been a vegetarian since 1992 and I still have to consciously work at getting enough fruits and vegetables in my diet - it's not as easy as most people think. Only organic, always fresh - and people tell me all the time "you look so healthy for a vegetarian..." So juice away Bilbobaggins - however you get them in there - more power to you my friend!

Adam

Sent from my Tandy 1000e

[William Palumbo]

Pretty interesting thread for sure. I enjoyed it and would like to try it. Not sure what all the negativity is about. No one is being forced to try it, and for those who do fine. It's cheap enough to do. It's not like there is actually some very EXPENSIVE "magic" powder made overseas that grows bigger fish, and another one that makes them more fertile, that people would buy...oh wait there is! Thanks Bilbo for sharing...Bill

[Bilbo]

I'm with you Toni - I've done the research, read the books, attended the seminars - I'll just eat my raw fruit and raw veggies the old fashion way. If you were eating an adequate amount of fruits and vegetables in raw form and then started juicing like I did - you would feel, see, and test no different. The problem is most people don't eat enough fresh fruits and vegetables so juicing provides a sexy/in/current/healthy alternative to eating them - so they see benefit. I've been a vegetarian since 1992 and I still have to consciously work at getting enough fruits and vegetables in my diet - it's not as easy as most people think. Only organic, always fresh - and people tell me all the time "you look so healthy for a vegetarian..." So juice away Bilbobaggins - however you get them in there - more power to you my friend!

Adam

Sent from my Tandy 1000e

For the most part, agree with everything you just said.;)

[Bilbo]

Pretty interesting thread for sure. I enjoyed it and would like to try it. Not sure what all the negativity is about. No one is being forced to try it, and for those who do fine. It's cheap enough to do. It's not like there is actually some very EXPENSIVE "magic" powder made overseas that grows bigger fish, and another one that makes them more fertile, that people would buy...oh wait there is! Thanks Bilbo for sharing...Bill *phew*... Thank you. And your welcome.

[musicmarn1]

Carry on... I'm really curious to see if juicing discus continues to show benefits to healthy and vitality over the course of a year!


Juicing Discus LOL !! i actually felt sick reading that the way i read it :) i have to say i need to juice or else i dont get enough in my diet, i find eating them whole yummy but i dont get enough i have fibromyalgia and i hurt a lot more when i skimp my garlic, green smoothies,

so it made perfect sense to me. i also prefer getting something i know has the live enzymes in it, not just the vitamin content which we can eat synthetic forms of. Anyway if its helping the Discus, power to it ! im new so lots of things i could be improving on without juicing but i have to say id love to try it too makes perfect sense and if you can see results, great, i just rescued some discus from the LFS (given to me not bought) so i could use those as a before and after, Bilbo, pm me the recipie to use please, because im happy to drink it myself since i need all the help i can get to stay pain free !

[strawberryblonde]

Pretty interesting thread for sure. I enjoyed it and would like to try it. Not sure what all the negativity is about. No one is being forced to try it, and for those who do fine. It's cheap enough to do. It's not like there is actually some very EXPENSIVE "magic" powder made overseas that grows bigger fish, and another one that makes them more fertile, that people would buy...oh wait there is! Thanks Bilbo for sharing...Bill

No no, I wasn't being at all negative about the possibility of a benefit for our discus! In my first post I specifically said that I'm all for anything that can be shown to have a positive affect on my discus. =)

I was just sticking in my 1.4 cents worth on the juicing craze. It's just my own thoughts and not in any way a negative comment on juicing. As Adam said, if it works and gets you more nutrition, by all means do it! I'm just a cheap old woman who refuses to spend excess bucks on a machine to mush and strain my veggies. I grew up in an age where money was scarce and every purchase was paid with cash... and new fangled contraptions were only purchased if they could perform a task that our standard equipment couldn't do as well, or if the new item could save money in the long run.

And just to toss another argument into the mix (oh lordie, I'm proving my hair color today!) you have to remember that the human body can only process X amount of each vitamin and mineral at any given time. The excess is simply put through the kidneys and excreted.

[Bilbo]

No no, I wasn't being at all negative about the possibility of a benefit for our discus! In my first post I specifically said that I'm all for anything that can be shown to have a positive affect on my discus. =)

I was just sticking in my 1.4 cents worth on the juicing craze. It's just my own thoughts and not in any way a negative comment on juicing. As Adam said, if it works and gets you more nutrition, by all means do it! I'm just a cheap old woman who refuses to spend excess bucks on a machine to mush and strain my veggies. I grew up in an age where money was scarce and every purchase was paid with cash... and new fangled contraptions were only purchased if they could perform a task that our standard equipment couldn't do as well, or if the new item could save money in the long run.

And just to toss another argument into the mix (oh lordie, I'm proving my hair color today!) you have to remember that the human body can only process X amount of each vitamin and mineral at any given time. The excess is simply put through the kidneys and excreted.Again, proven, you are getting things in raw veggies that you don't get in pasteurized. Also the vitamin and mineral form is different and much more absorbable than in other forms. Trace elements are also a factor. But all is well, lol.

[Bilbo]

Carry on... I'm really curious to see if juicing discus continues to show benefits to healthy and vitality over the course of a year!


Juicing Discus LOL !! i actually felt sick reading that the way i read it :) i have to say i need to juice or else i dont get enough in my diet, i find eating them whole yummy but i dont get enough i have fibromyalgia and i hurt a lot more when i skimp my garlic, green smoothies,

so it made perfect sense to me. i also prefer getting something i know has the live enzymes in it, not just the vitamin content which we can eat synthetic forms of. Anyway if its helping the Discus, power to it ! im new so lots of things i could be improving on without juicing but i have to say id love to try it too makes perfect sense and if you can see results, great, i just rescued some discus from the LFS (given to me not bought) so i could use those as a before and after, Bilbo, pm me the recipie to use please, because im happy to drink it myself since i need all the help i can get to stay pain free ! I know lots of people that juice for very specific reasons and if they don't get their juice they feel bad. One older woman I know juices alfalfa grass. Her joints ache if she doesn't.

I use carrots and beets as a base every time. But I will also throw in sweet potato, celery spinach leaf and juice all it. If you can eat it then it's probably safe for discus though I am not certain on that. Still experimenting with this.

[YSS]

I have been drinking a lot of different kinds juice lately because my wife is doing a three week detox program. I definitely do feel a big difference. But for discus? Can't be bad. :)

[Kal-El]

Pretty interesting thread for sure. I enjoyed it and would like to try it. Not sure what all the negativity is about. No one is being forced to try it, and for those who do fine. It's cheap enough to do. It's not like there is actually some very EXPENSIVE "magic" powder made overseas that grows bigger fish, and another one that makes them more fertile, that people would buy...oh wait there is! Thanks Bilbo for sharing...Bill

Well said Bill. The OP could have decided to keep this to himself but he was kind enough to share his positive experience with juicing to all of us. Regardless if you think its good or bad it's up to you to decide if you want to do this or not. No one is saying this is a must do for all Hobbyist. Thanks OP for sharing...

[DiscusLoverJeff]

It is an interesting thread for sure, but lets do a test. Those interested in trying this, start a thread and lets see before and after photos in 1 month incriments. After 6 months, lets see who has done the best and what juicing formula they used.

I use green vibrance in my mix and fish are all healthy.

[blueluv]

I'm going to start soaking the fdbws in my green vibrance juice.

[Bilbo]

I'm actually very intrigued with this Green Vibrance I keep hearing about. Where can I get some? I would love to use it right along with my juicing.

[joanstone]

I started using it after reading about it on here. The company that puts it out is called Vibrant Health and they are located in CT. They have many products and what I've read about them is very positive. They recently came out with a new product called Maximum Vibrance, which I just got. I make a smoothie in the blender with organic strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, avocado and water/ice with either and Green Vibrance or Maximum Vibrance plus their Joint Vibrance. Seems like you could use your juice for the liquid-that would be quite a smoothie! You can buy from them directly online or even from Amazon or The Vitamin Shoppe. Some health food stores carry their products as well. They have a store locator on their site.

[blueluv]

I'm actually very intrigued with this Green Vibrance I keep hearing about. Where can I get some? I would love to use it right along with my juicing.

I bought mine at the local health food store called The Vitamin Shoppe

[SMB2]

I guess I am one of the posters being accused of being negative. I'm not. Just have an evidence based way at looking at things.
Then I see from above that Green Vibrance has avocado in it. Avocado has a toxin in it called Persin. At one point it was thought that dogs and cats would die from eating avocado; turns out they just get sick. Cows however do die from Persin toxicity and so do birds. Anybody know the toxicity of Persin to fish? Is the toxin somehow removed from Green Vibrance? Can it have a cumulative effect on fish?
So far I have found +/- reports regarding the possible toxicity in fish.

[joanstone]

I said I put avocado in my smoothie along with the strawberries, raspberries and blueberries. Sorry if I was unclear, green vibrance doesn't contain avocado.

[Skip]

STAN!!! DON"T YOU DARE ATTACK AVOCADOS!!!!!!!

how i am going to make my guacamole dip?? with Tofu?! i think not!

[SMB2]

Sorry my misread.
Do you know what is in Green Vibrance?
There are so many things that we take for granted in our diet that may be toxic to other orders of animals.
Grapes and raisins for instance, which you think would be innocuous, are pretty toxic to dogs.
Again, I am for anything that makes for healthier, stronger humans and discus! But I am not so sure that all the veggies and fruits we eat are good for fish and visa versa. I was just pointing out interesting cross toxicities that might make one stop and think.

[SMB2]

STAN!!! DON"T YOU DARE ATTACK AVOCADOS!!!!!!!

Well unless you are a bird or cow that can type, you should be fine:o

[joanstone]

Vibrant Health sells many of their products for dogs and cats too, including Green Vibrance. They have an expert available for questions/info as well.

[blueluv]

I guess I am one of the posters being accused of being negative. I'm not. Just have an evidence based way at looking at things.
Then I see from above that Green Vibrance has avocado in it. Avocado has a toxin in it called Persin. At one point it was thought that dogs and cats would die from eating avocado; turns out they just get sick. Cows however do die from Persin toxicity and so do birds. Anybody know the toxicity of Persin to fish? Is the toxin somehow removed from Green Vibrance? Can it have a cumulative effect on fish?
So far I have found +/- reports regarding the possible toxicity in fish.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?106016-Green-Vibrance&highlight=green+vibrance

Post #7 I don't have any scientific evidence to back up green vibrance. This is the only reason I've tried it. :angel:

[SMB2]

Thanks Chris. Looks like SD people have been using it for some time and there are, on here at least, no bad issues reported.
This is a link to the ingredients: http://www.vitabase.com/supplements/energy/greenvibrance.aspx

As for as people making their own fresh additives, go for it. But personally, I would do a little research into the ingredients. I don't think that because we can eat/benefit from some veggies and fruits that they are therefore safe for other animals.
Although the scant literature on what Discus eat in the wild points to them being primarily herbivores.

[YSS]

Good point, Stan. We recently got a puppy and I am very surprised to see so many so called "innocuous" food is so bad for dogs. Something to consider for sure ...

[Bilbo]

Man I sure love this juice for my discus! Breeding activity going through the roof! Triggered my Flowerhorns to start spawning as well, lol.

[yim11]

Watch those kidneys -

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343%2813%2900390-2/fulltext

[JERRYKEVIN]

Mother of God stop the insanity- Hogwash-lol

[blueluv]

Mother of God stop the insanity- Hogwash-lol

What do you mean?

[Chicago Discus]

Watch those kidneys -

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343%2813%2900390-2/fulltext

+1 I agree with this

[YSS]

Watch those kidneys -

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343%2813%2900390-2/fulltext

One case study?

[SMB2]

It is just one case, BUT Oxalate toxicity is well known. I would be willing to bet that many people who take up juicing don't even know what Oxalates are.
Our medical literature is filled with "the next best drug" only to find out down the road that extended use caused some terrible side effect or reaction in some patients.
Like the article states juicing is an understudied phenomena in the medical world. I am not saying that medical research is the be all and end all, but it does take me back to my original reason for posting, that is, the value of evidence based knowledge.

Anybody know about oxalates and renal function in Discus? How about large amounts of Soy products and fish fertility and development?
Sorry that's just how I look at the next best thing:)

[Bilbo]

Watch those kidneys -

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343%2813%2900390-2/fulltext You have GOT to be joking, right? All the thousands of people that are juicing now days and you pull out a link that shows a case of Oxalate poisoning? Oh i'm sure there are more cases but you know what? There are people that get mercury poisoning from the fish that they eat as well as other types of poisoning from various healthy foods. Shall we tell them to put down their fish and start cramming twinkies? Give me a break. Check this out... here is a quote from your link... lol...." Up to now, there have been no reports of juicing-induced damage, until this issue of The American Journal of Medicine, which reports a case of oxalate nephropathy due to 6 weeks of a juicing fast." Like.....seriously

[blueluv]

Oxalate causes kidney stones? What about renal function in discus?

[Bilbo]

Also, you can over do anything. For me, I juice twice a week. It has helped me become stronger, faster, skin more elastic, healing quicker, and even some things I can't put in this thread because they are between me and my wife. Oxalate poisoning? Oh my... lol.
It's getting kind of lame that this thread is coming to this. Can you say "Sour grapes"? Those of you who are not advocates for juicing for yourselves or your fish, I seriously would not do it. Keep doing what you are doing. Those of you who want to try it.... give it a shot. I PROMISE it's not going to kill your fish because I have been doing it and with more than satisfactory results I might add. You may do it and hate it. You may try it and not see ANY results. But it won't kill your fish. At least the recipe im doing which is simply beats, carrots, sweet potato, spinach and celery and lychee. I will be trying other things as well.

[Bilbo]

One case study? How is it said around here.... +1?

[Bilbo]

It is just one case, BUT Oxalate toxicity is well known. I would be willing to bet that many people who take up juicing don't even know what Oxalates are.
Our medical literature is filled with "the next best drug" only to find out down the road that extended use caused some terrible side effect or reaction in some patients.
Like the article states juicing is an understudied phenomena in the medical world. I am not saying that medical research is the be all and end all, but it does take me back to my original reason for posting, that is, the value of evidence based knowledge.

Anybody know about oxalates and renal function in Discus? How about large amounts of Soy products and fish fertility and development?
Sorry that's just how I look at the next best thing:) Hmmm, I have personally known people who have been juicing for years and years and they are extreemely healthy. +1 for that study. Also (the next best thing) doesn't apply to this situation since juicing has been done for many years. Just because a lot of people are jumping on the band wagon doesn't mean that juicing wasn't always good. If I were you I would stick to eating Little Debbies. They have been around a long, LONG time so you wont have to worry about the next best thing. Actually, if I were living by that quality of life code I would never try anything that I haven't heard of before since it surely would not work.

[blueluv]

Also, you can over do anything. For me, I juice twice a week. It has helped me become stronger, faster, skin more elastic, healing quicker, and even some things I can't put in this thread because they are between me and my wife. Oxalate poisoning? Oh my... lol.
It's getting kind of lame that this thread is coming to this. Can you say "Sour grapes"? Those of you who are not advocates for juicing for yourselves or your fish, I seriously would not do it. Keep doing what you are doing. Those of you who want to try it.... give it a shot. I PROMISE it's not going to kill your fish because I have been doing it and with more than satisfactory results I might add. You may do it and hate it. You may try it and not see ANY results. But it won't kill your fish. At least the recipe im doing which is simply beats, carrots, sweet potato, spinach and celery and lychee. I will be trying other things as well.

I'm not understanding why Stan asked if anyone knows about oxalate and renal function in discus.

[Bilbo]

I'm not understanding why Stan asked if anyone knows about oxalate and renal function in discus. I don't either but I am not concerned since I have never seen it and never will.

[yim11]

One case study?

Yup. One more than anyone else bothered to post.

And we should definitely ignore info from some of the top leading medical professionals, always a wise call.

[YSS]

Yup. One more than anyone else bothered to post.

And we should definitely ignore info from some of the top leading medical professionals, always a wise call.

All I am saying is that one case study doesn't make it a trend. You can't make a sound conclusion based on one case study. I will need to see more . By the way, may be top medical professionals are more trust worthy, but I will never trust the top pharmaceutical professionals.

I do agree that if someone consumed large quantity of anything for six straight weeks, it would most likely do more harm than good.

[blueluv]

Well some veggies contain oxalic acid, one of them being spinach. For those of us that make a bh mix use spinach, but it's boiled first so the oxalic acid has no affect. I guess the easy oxalic acid affects the body is by not allowing nutrient absorption. I think maybe this what he's referring to?

[yim11]

All I am saying is that one case study doesn't make it a trend. You can't make a sound conclusion based on one case study. I will need to see more . By the way, may be top medical professionals are more trust worthy, but I will never trust the top pharmaceutical professionals.

Easy now - you are trying to put words in my mouth. I offered no conclusions as I have none. I have no dog in this fight, could care less if someone drinks 100% juice or never touches a sip. I offered a link from medical professionals that suggest kidney functions be watched in the case of certain levels of juice intake. I was hoping that might possibly be carried over to anyone thinking of using this on their fish but I see that was lost.

[jack bauer]

When you all say 'juicing' - are we just talking about drinking the juice of a fruit or vegetable? I feel like I'm missing something as you're making it sound like it's something special?

Haven't humans been consuming the juice of fruit and veg since we noticed you can eat fruit and veg?

[SMB2]

I don't have a dog in this fight either, and the discussion is getting off base when the OP is implying that I have some atavistic life code because I like to look at the science behind certain assertions. And why sour grapes? I am glad that the OP has great success with his discus. This forum is certainly about learning new ideas, and food additives are a great topic. But the science behind new ideas is also open for discussion. When chewing bark from a certain tree took care of your headache somebody asked why. That led to Aspirin, a wonder drug for sure. But as we have come to use it more and more we have learned the side effects. Nothing wrong with a little intellectual curiosity.

Chris my question about oxalates in Discus was open ended. Freshwater fish renal function is centered around getting rid of a constant "poison", water. So their renal function is somewhat different from mammals, so perhaps they handle oxalates differently.
Just asking the question.
I'm not sure what a Little Debbie is, but if it comes in chocolate, sure I 'll try it.

[blueluv]

I don't have a dog in this fight either, and the discussion is getting off base when the OP is implying that I have some atavistic life code because I like to look at the science behind certain assertions. And why sour grapes? I am glad that the OP has great success with his discus. This forum is certainly about learning new ideas, and food additives are a great topic. But the science behind new ideas is also open for discussion. When chewing bark from a certain tree took care of your headache somebody asked why. That led to Aspirin, a wonder drug for sure. But as we have come to use it more and more we have learned the side effects. Nothing wrong with a little intellectual curiosity.

Chris my question about oxalates in Discus was open ended. Freshwater fish renal function is centered around getting rid of a constant "poison", water. So their renal function is somewhat different from mammals, so perhaps they handle oxalates differently.
Just asking the question.
I'm not sure what a Little Debbie is, but if it comes in chocolate, sure I 'll try it.

I just to put this out their. I meant no disrespect in any way,I honestly don't know what oxalate and renal function of discus is. Little Debbie is a company that makes snacks, like twinkies, cup cakes ect.

[musicmarn1]

I think these are valid points. Absolutely worthy of consideration, we tend to operate on the " if a little is good more must be better" so it's good to stop and think on any approach. That's what this forum is for right? Different sides of a point of view or experience. Bilbo posted an experience, seems to be working for the fish, long term who knows, i see the point about toxicity in different species very well, as I have been experimenting with customising my own fresh made dog food, proper balanced nutrition is such a tricky subject and hard to perfect. Results count, longevity and different study groups of animals over a long period of time. The desire for everyone here, is healthy pets, truly glowing with health. I have to say I appreciate all input here it's good to think, then act, experiment, fail or succeed, learn grow, repeat. I see 15 dogs eat every day, so with all my experience I feel confident to experiment, I know what im looking for in outcome, but id be more cautious with my limited discus knowledge, but I'm excited to try new things based on the success of this group and I'm willing to learn and grow, I'm glad I don't just use frozen bloodworms for example I see the difference in fish fed variety. So I say keep the results coming but don't be upset that some people like to consider all the angles first! Some clients of mine won't touch raw, me I see results different to kibble fed dogs so I believe, I won't however over claim these results, to people who have doubt. In 10 more years I might get more outspoken about it :)

[Bilbo]

Anyway, in the spirit of Forum Topics, this juice is sure some good stuff!:angel:

[SMB2]

I meant no disrespect

Chris, absolutely none taken. Thanks for the Little Debbie info. Pretty sure I would have to sneak those into the house in the dead of night!

[strawberryblonde]

Just wanted to put this out there... not gonna say that it's proof positive that whole fruits are better for you than juicing, just adding some food for thought (see what I did there?)

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2013/08/reduce-type-2-diabetes-risk/

[Bilbo]

Just wanted to put this out there... not gonna say that it's proof positive that whole fruits are better for you than juicing, just adding some food for thought (see what I did there?)

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2013/08/reduce-type-2-diabetes-risk/ And so i'll put this out there. The link is talking about sugary fruit juice. Not vegetable juice. Did you see the term 'glycemic index' mentioned? That is a term we weight lifters use often. It is a term that determins a measure of how quickly blood sugar levels (i.e., levels of glucose in the blood) rise after eating a particular type of food. In other words an apple will be rated x on the glycemic index chart while a potato will be listed as a different level of potency for the sugars that it has on the chart. In the link you provided it is ONLY talking about fruit juices.

#1: I don't juice fruit juices because you get the same amount of minerals and vitamins in juicing vegetables (sometimes more) without the concentration of sugars that are always in fruit juices.

#2: ANY person who is consuming a lot of sugary vegetable OR fruit that is juiced and even eaten on a regular basis and is not meeting these 'quick energy units' with comparable amounts of energy usage to utilize the said sugars is asking for diabetes. Remember what I said about never a silver bullet? You can indeed juice vegatables and get away with a lot more subtle lazed life style and do fine (though you still need to exercise some.) But you can not start juicing a half gallon of fruit juice a day and expect no consequences when you don't use the energy you are gulping down your throat. Same thing goes with the extra protein over a long spell of time, fat, certain types of vitamins that build up in the liver after a long time and MANY, MANY other nutrients that the human body takes in. YOU HAVE TO USE THEM and if you don't? Well then, many times this leads to health issues down the road. Are sugars any different? No. If a person eats only fruit then great. They will only have to apply a certain amount of usage (exercise) to actually utilize the sugars introduced into the body. But if you start juicing fruits on a regular basis...well then your activity needs to go up as well to compensate for those extra units of fast energy that you just put in your body.

#3 The chart sounds like it is talking about people chugging that crappy sugary juice from the store. No where in the link could I find it reffering to a person actually juicing their fruit. A person doing their own juicing RARELY even comes close to consuming the amount of juice that comes in the containers at the store. Half gallon, gallon, etc... This is important to realize as there are many studies on how how young children in the country are often times obese and heading down the road to diabetes because of their over consumption of calories many of which comes from sugary drinks. One of the main culprits? Sodas and bottled fruit juices.


The link imo is misleading. Very. Not to mention that the juicing I recommended in the thread never had one fruit listed. It is all veggie.

[littleyellow]

I have not been a big fan of juicing machines as I feel they remove too much of the fruit that I want to be consuming. The wife and I use a 2hp blender for our smoothies/juices and it breaks everything down quite well while keeping the pulp and skin inside. Seems like an interesting thing to try out!

[Skip]

the point is.. as op stated.. this is about the fish.. not him

[SMB2]

Took the words off my fingers, Warlock.
(Now back to my avocado.)

[Bilbo]

Could be just coincidence I suppose.... but wow, what a coincidence if it is? Flowerhorns also upped the spawning intensity as well. One thing I will say for sure is that if you do this you better up your water changes because it tends to gradually cloud your water the more you feed like this. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?108718-Shes-spawning-every-4-days&p=1026575#post1026575

[MSD]

With all due respect, What a load of unscientific crap!

[Bilbo]

With all due respect, What a load of unscientific crap! With all due respect... yes my fish are crapping big time with all the food they've been eating lately! I don't know much about crap science but I can tell you it's been A LOT!

[Larry Bugg]

Dang I hate jumping into this kind of thread but here goes.

I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us. That said, I have to agree with those that say you need to do a side by side comparison before one can say the benefits you see are a result of the juicing. There could be a range of reasons why you think " I noticed the vitality and color of my fish explode." I was confused though when you later posted "There is not a big difference in color compared to the first time I posted them here but there is a noticible difference.". I think these two statements back up the thought that you really need to do a side by side comparison to really show the affect. I have a lot of spawning activity going on in my fishroom right now, discus and others. A storm front just passed through and turned them all on. If I had tried a new food I might have attributed it to that. Not saying that there is no benefit from what you are doing................just saying that at this point you can't really confirm the results. Keep it up and continue to report on the progress/success. I would like to see a side by side comparison.

I wanted to ask another question, off topic of the juicing. On the first page of this thread you were talking about the stain on you tank walls and growing algae on the walls. You referred to this as good place to house beneficial bacteria and you talked about wanting as much beneficial bacteria as you can get. My question is why you feel the need for algae to make this happen. There is a limit to how much B bacteria you can have in a tank and that is based on the bioload and the food that bioload produces for the B bacteria to eat. I believe my filters, especially the K1 floating bed filter, offer more living area for B bacteria than can actually live in my tank based on the bioload. I don't believe keeping the walls of my tank clean in any way reduces the B bacteria in my tank.

[Bilbo]

Number 1: It's a thread to express my excitement for what (I) noticed in my fish. I've been raising fish a long time. Over all there is a big difference. I am not going to run any kind of other tests. You don't have to do this. I'm not asking you too. So let's leave it at that. Number 2: Stop derailing the thread. If you feel the need to discuss something with me so far from the topic feel free to pm me. But for your information, I like algae on my tank walls because it's beneficial to all the fish I have ever bred. Especially my ram fry. If you want to keep a clean walled tank then by all means, do it. My point earlier in the thread was that some people advocate only keeping discus in a tank with clean sides. I believe a person can do it both ways. I fact, I do it BOTH ways. Now.... Let's get back on topic.

[MSD]

Yeah, filthy tanks are always the best to keep fish in. Just because you have a big mouth and an attitude does not make you right, or impress anyone. Do what you want but you sound like a jerk.

[YSS]

With all due respect, What a load of unscientific crap!

Most advises given on this forum are based on members' hands-on experiences and what worked best for them. Just like OP's experiences. Not many are scientifically proven facts. I would be pissed off too if people started attacking me for sharing my positive fish keeping experiences.

[Bilbo]

Yeah, filthy tanks are always the best to keep fish in. Just because you have a big mouth and an attitude does not make you right, or impress anyone. Do what you want but you sound like a jerk. A filthy tank to the human eye does not mean it's filthy to a fish just like a clean tank to a human eye does not mean it's clean to the fish. Good luck trying to clean every bit of muck and organic out of a planted tank. Your reasoning is....silly. Furthermore, seriously you don't think i'm trying to impress the likes of you? I assure you that is the furthest thing from my mind. And yes, I am jerks to people like you. If you don't like it, don't respond to any of my threads. You came to my thread bringing drama. I never came to yours. Lol...seriously-

[Bilbo]

Most advises given on this forum are based on members' hands-on experiences and what worked best for them. Just like OP's experiences. Not many are scientifically proven facts. I would be pissed off too if people started attacking me for sharing my positive fish keeping experiences.
Thank you. Not sure where all the negativity came from. The haters don't have to post here at all.

[MSD]

Mix that juice in your tank and you'll have all kinds of bio blooms. Likes of me? LOL, who are you, Einstein. By the way, your tanks are still filthy.

[Bilbo]

Mix that juice in your tank and you'll have all kinds of bio blooms. Likes of me? LOL, who are you, Einstein. By the way, your tanks are still filthy and you are still a jerk. No wait, an arrogant jerk. I agree with everything you just said - all 5 points. Btw, my wife thinks i'm filthy too......but she likes it. Now move on.

[MSD]

OK, I'm moving on, good luck.

[blueluv]

With all due respect, What a load of unscientific crap!


Yeah, filthy tanks are always the best to keep fish in. Just because you have a big mouth and an attitude does not make you right, or impress anyone. Do what you want but you sound like a jerk.


Mix that juice in your tank and you'll have all kinds of bio blooms. Likes of me? LOL, who are you, Einstein. By the way, your tanks are still filthy and you are still a jerk. No wait, an arrogant jerk.

Why haven't any of the administrators or moderators taken control of this negative and personal attacks towards bilbobbagins? Please, I mean no disrespect towards the admins or moderators, but this should not be allowed to continue. :angel:

[SMB2]

Most advises given on this forum are based on members' hands-on experiences and what worked best for them. Just like OP's experiences. Not many are scientifically proven facts. I would be pissed off too if people started attacking me for sharing my positive fish keeping experiences.

Yun, the OP certainly seems to have a lot of experience with fish keeping. But his original post implied a benefit to his fish using "juiced" FDBW in just a few days. That's more of a testimonial than experience that would send one running to the juicer. The OP is correct, I don't have to try it, no big deal. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss the pros and cons behind the possible science regarding the effects on FISH. If I remember correctly, you have a science background, so you must have a little curiosity as to how any of this might apply to discus keeping.
If Eddy or John (just to name a few) post something in their experience, I take notice because I know it is usually backed by years/volumes of observation. That may not be science but it probably carries some validity. They also sometimes get questioned. I am certainly not saying there are no new things to be tried caring for discus and I hope, over time, the OP builds a stronger case for his initial observation and keeps us posted.

[blueluv]

Yun, the OP certainly seems to have a lot of experience with fish keeping. But his original post implied a benefit to his fish using "juiced" FDBW in just a few days. That's more of a testimonial than experience that would send one running to the juicer. The OP is correct, I don't have to try it, no big deal. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss the pros and cons behind the possible science regarding the effects on FISH. If I remember correctly, you have a science background, so you must have a little curiosity as to how any of this might apply to discus keeping.
If Eddy or John (just to name a few) post something in their experience, I take notice because I know it is usually backed by years/volumes of observation. That may not be science but it probably carries some validity. They also sometimes get questioned. I am certainly not saying there are no new things to be tried caring for discus and I hope, over time, the OP builds a stronger case for his initial observation and keeps us posted.

Well said, but this should be discussed with respect and open minds

[Skip]

Why haven't any of the administrators or moderators taken control of this negative and personal attacks towards bilbobbagins? Please, I mean no disrespect towards the admins or moderators, but this should not be allowed to continue. :angel:

then click the Little ICON on bottom left of icon.. that reports the post to the ADMIN..

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm watching

[MSD]

He put it out there and I just gave my opinion, if rather strongly. He's a man and can take it, we just disagree. I bet we are actually a lot alike.

[Second Hand Pat]

Yup, hoping you guys can work it out. ;)

[blueluv]

He put it out there and I just gave my opinion, if rather strongly. He's a man and can take it, we just disagree. I bet we are actually a lot alike.

Theirs nothing wrong with sharing your opinion, but do so with respect and tact.

[Bilbo]

Yun, the OP certainly seems to have a lot of experience with fish keeping. But his original post implied a benefit to his fish using "juiced" FDBW in just a few days. That's more of a testimonial than experience that would send one running to the juicer. The OP is correct, I don't have to try it, no big deal. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss the pros and cons behind the possible science regarding the effects on FISH. If I remember correctly, you have a science background, so you must have a little curiosity as to how any of this might apply to discus keeping.
If Eddy or John (just to name a few) post something in their experience, I take notice because I know it is usually backed by years/volumes of observation. That may not be science but it probably carries some validity. They also sometimes get questioned. I am certainly not saying there are no new things to be tried caring for discus and I hope, over time, the OP builds a stronger case for his initial observation and keeps us posted. He wasn't referring to the pros and cons of this possible method (which btw I was all for as long as it was done in a tasteful manner and the topic was maintained) but he was referring to this statement which he quoted "With all due respect, What a load of unscientific crap!" That is the kind of mud slinging we don't need. And those were the kind of comments that made me not even care about the topic any more and helped me turn on my arrogant charm. Originally I was here only to share my excitement and to encourage those who wanted to try it to do so. That was it. As far as pros and cons. I guess i'll find that out sooner or later. There are lots of "Tricks to the trade" I have found out through the years with my rams and flowerhorns by doing new things just like this. I can breed rams of ANY kind because of 2 or 3 little tricks that I learned through experimentation, that as far as I know, know one else does. I'll continue to do the juicing thing for as long as I can since I have had nothing but goodness from it. Bacteria blooms, algae blooms... naaa. Just juice once a day or a few times a week and maintain a hearty bio filter and keep up with the required water changes and its fine. Oh, and also, I love the algae on the sides of my tank. The water column is what needs to stay clean and fresh. Algae on the sides of the tank have never EVER hurt me in any way shape or form. Ever. It helps with water quality as well. I find it funny that I have a PM in my inbox right now by someone who everyone here holds in high esteem who just told me that he has algae in his tanks as well and people come to him to buy discus! lol..... To each our own, people, to each our own. Just try to be respectful to people who have success but may do things differently that you. Diversity. Anyway, it's been fun.

[Ryan]

Yeah, filthy tanks are always the best to keep fish in. Just because you have a big mouth and an attitude does not make you right, or impress anyone. Do what you want but you sound like a jerk.


Mix that juice in your tank and you'll have all kinds of bio blooms. Likes of me? LOL, who are you, Einstein. By the way, your tanks are still filthy and you are still a jerk. No wait, an arrogant jerk.

There's no reason why adults can't have a conversation about something without resorting to this kind of stuff. Seriously, it's not about disagreeing with each other, but the way in which you handle it. If you want to call him a jerk, do so via PM or phone, but keep it off the forum. As I've said countless times, if you don't like someone, you can feel free to add them to your personal Ignore List and their posts will no longer show up for you. It isn't the job of the mods and admins here to try and make everyone get along -- with big egos and personalities, there will always be disagreements and people who butt heads. It's up to you to avoid someone you don't like/understand/agree with. The jobs of mods and admins is to keep it from spilling over into threads and disrupting discussion, end of story.


Why haven't any of the administrators or moderators taken control of this negative and personal attacks towards bilbobbagins? Please, I mean no disrespect towards the admins or moderators, but this should not be allowed to continue. :angel:

There is a Report Post button at the bottom of each post. It's a small triangle with an exclamation point in it. You may click this on any forum post and it will alert a mod or admin to look at the thread. I don't closely read or follow every thread here so sometimes this stuff doesn't come up on our radar until it spills over into other threads or we get a PM about it.

[yim11]

and helped me turn on my arrogant charm

Now lets see if we can turn on your open mind.


He wasn't referring to the pros and cons of this possible method (which btw I was all for as long as it was done in a tasteful manner and the topic was maintained)

Have you? You dismissed proven scientific data provided by established medical professionals, offered in a professional manner.

You offer no scientific proof at all to support your point, rail against anyone that does, and push your point like a used car salesman looking for his first sale.

Think about how this would play out in real life - group of discus folks standing around chatting, maybe at a NADA Show next year, you walk up and drop this juice idea, one guy brings up bacteria, another internal organs/kidneys, another some other issue, you have no reply since you haven't tried long enough yet, so they will simply dismiss your discussion and move on to another subject. Same in this thread.

Personally I think you are very irresponsible to come on here and push something you admit not knowing the repercussions of. I bet this would have gone over a LOT better if it had been presented more along the lines of "here is something new I'm trying and will keep you updated on the results" but you are swearing by this without any true scientific data, and in this hobby most demand more than a little effort.

You also need to consider how you are responding to algae/clean tank conditions. Just cuz John says he has algae doesn't mean he's posting on here it's great to do. Mean's he's lazy, and if you reply to that PM and ask is a clean tank better bet you will get different answer than you are pushing.

Diversity and change can be great, but should be done in a manner that lends credibility to the effort, you have not displayed that here yet.

HTHs

[Larry Bugg]

LOL, but that Texas guy does juice, oops thats not right, he gets juiced. Then he puts on a dress.

[Oscarsx]

16 page thread, there must be some good drama going on.

Lmao jk, I don't think he's pushing anything on anyone, he's simply just sharing his experience.

Op picture update please!

- oz

[YSS]

Yun, the OP certainly seems to have a lot of experience with fish keeping. But his original post implied a benefit to his fish using "juiced" FDBW in just a few days. That's more of a testimonial than experience that would send one running to the juicer. The OP is correct, I don't have to try it, no big deal. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss the pros and cons behind the possible science regarding the effects on FISH. If I remember correctly, you have a science background, so you must have a little curiosity as to how any of this might apply to discus keeping.
If Eddy or John (just to name a few) post something in their experience, I take notice because I know it is usually backed by years/volumes of observation. That may not be science but it probably carries some validity. They also sometimes get questioned. I am certainly not saying there are no new things to be tried caring for discus and I hope, over time, the OP builds a stronger case for his initial observation and keeps us posted.

Agree with you Stan, but the opportunity to discuss the pros and cons behind the possible science regarding the effects on FISH went out the door very quickly as the discussion was quickly derailed from the get go. I think most people agree, me and OP included, that doing anything extreme is bad. It's not like the OP said he raises his discus in a tank filled with veggie juice. He merely suggested soaking FDBW in his juice. I don't think that constitutes anything extreme. Not sure this even merits a scientific discussion. That's my take.

[nikond70s]

lol @ people needing "scientist" to prove certain things. a lot of the time, scientist is nothing more then an opinion/guess from a highly educated person. scientist are proven wrong many times. do what works for you and stick to it. who cares what others think. the OP is kind enough to share this. if u dont like it or disagree with it. just dont read it. no need to call him names just cuz u dont like his idea.

i noticed on this forum, if u dont do things a certain way and is different from everybody else. u will be looked down upon and members will make fun of u and call u out on threads just cuz you dont follow a certain rule. i see people going on different forums complaining how people on simply discus arent so friendly.

[Skip]

i see people going on different forums complaining how people on simply discus arent so friendly.

maybe. but this is where the DISCUS KNOWLEDGE Is found :)

[Larry Bugg]

Well I guess it boils down to what you consider negative. I don't find most of the discussion on this thread as negative at all. It was people discussing differing views and asking questions. Now I will grant you that there were a couple of negative replies but not the majority. I happen to like to see some proof, is that negative? I don't think so. I have no problem with new ideas but I want to see something that backs them up. I don't think that is negative. Just because one or two people carry the discussion too far doesn't mean everyone else has to be labeled as negative. When the op came back and told me he had no intention of trying to prove his idea I didn't come back with a response because that is certainly his right. Just as much as it is my right to want proof before accepting his idea. I don't approve of the negative response that was made. It was uncalled for but most of this was just discussion.

[Ryan]

lol @ people needing "scientist" to prove certain things. a lot of the time, scientist is nothing more then an opinion/guess from a highly educated person. scientist are proven wrong many times. do what works for you and stick to it. who cares what others think. the OP is kind enough to share this. if u dont like it or disagree with it. just dont read it. no need to call him names just cuz u dont like his idea.

There is nothing wrong with questioning the validity or effectiveness of something. A lot of new discus keepers read this forum. If they see a bunch of ideas being posted without question or debate, they may falsely assume that it's what they should be doing. People can and should experiment with new methods of raising fish, preparing foods, changing water, filtering their tanks, and so on, but if you're going to claim that something has a positive impact or claim it improves the health and vigor of your fish, you should be able to show proof of that. You don't have to be a scientist to do a simple experiment. You'll get a lot more interest and positive reinforcement if you can back up your findings.

You're right -- a lot of people here, and on every internet forum/social media site, should learn to have discussions without resorting to petty bickering and name-calling. This is not exclusive to SimplyDiscus. There are plenty of fish forums where these kinds of threads devolve into arguing. As to what other people say about Simply on other forums, that's their business. I really wish people would quit bringing it up here. If someone doesn't like Simply, they don't have to post on Simply. There are plenty of friendly people here. To write off a website with 30,000 members and over a decade of vast collective knowledge because "some people aren't so friendly" is a bit silly, IMO. Still, no one is forcing people to read the site.

If Bilbobaggins wants to continue posting about his juicing, that's fine. The conversation going forward needs to remain civil and on topic. Any name-calling, attacks, or otherwise off-topic stuff will just get deleted, or I'll just lock the thread.

[du3ce]

if jack lalane juices and lived up up to what his 90's? maybe it has the same effect on discus?

[Ryan]

A lot of people add vitamins to their food. Some crush up baby vitamins in their beefheart mix. Others use liquid vitamin supplements to soak pellets for their oscars and other large cichlids that are prone to HITH. It doesn't seem like a stretch that the nutrients in the raw juice would have a similar effect.

[Larry Bugg]

if jack lalane juices and lived up up to what his 90's? maybe it has the same effect on discus?

I'm not sure if you intended this as serious or not so please don't take my response as a jab. It isn't intended that way but this statement is exactly why I like to see proof that ideas actually work. It may indeed be the juice that worked for Jack or it may be that the juice was a contributing factor. I suspect contributing is more likely but either way...........both of my parents are 91 years old. They don't juice. They have been good at staying active, eating good and getting exercise. So Jack Juices and my parents don't, I like to see some evidence that something works. To me Jack isn't evidence.

[Oscarsx]

Living a long life is nothing but good genes and a little bit of luck :)

[Bilbo]

Now lets see if we can turn on your open mind.



Have you? You dismissed proven scientific data provided by established medical professionals, offered in a professional manner.

You offer no scientific proof at all to support your point, rail against anyone that does, and push your point like a used car salesman looking for his first sale.

Think about how this would play out in real life - group of discus folks standing around chatting, maybe at a NADA Show next year, you walk up and drop this juice idea, one guy brings up bacteria, another internal organs/kidneys, another some other issue, you have no reply since you haven't tried long enough yet, so they will simply dismiss your discussion and move on to another subject. Same in this thread.

Personally I think you are very irresponsible to come on here and push something you admit not knowing the repercussions of. I bet this would have gone over a LOT better if it had been presented more along the lines of "here is something new I'm trying and will keep you updated on the results" but you are swearing by this without any true scientific data, and in this hobby most demand more than a little effort.

You also need to consider how you are responding to algae/clean tank conditions. Just cuz John says he has algae doesn't mean he's posting on here it's great to do. Mean's he's lazy, and if you reply to that PM and ask is a clean tank better bet you will get different answer than you are pushing.

Diversity and change can be great, but should be done in a manner that lends credibility to the effort, you have not displayed that here yet.

HTHs Look... juice or don't juice, I don't care. Im not trying to push anyone on anything. If you don't see that... well, I don't care about that either. And John? Who, what, when, where? The person who pmed me is not named John at all but i'll put his quote right here "People to my hatchery would comment on how dirty mine were, and how clean they kept theirs...but they were buying fish from ME! Take care..." I took his name out to be respectful though. But it wasn't John. Also, if you don't want algae in your tanks that's fine too. I'm not sure why you and a few others are continuing to take this thread off topic. Please stay on it or leave. Thanks.

[Bilbo]

16 page thread, there must be some good drama going on.

Lmao jk, I don't think he's pushing anything on anyone, he's simply just sharing his experience.

Op picture update please!

- oz Yup

[YSS]

This is off topic, but send me your juice recipe, please if you will. I am going to give your recipe a try. Me not my fish. :)

[SMB2]

Ok. So we seem to have gone full circle. For the uninitiated, what exactly is your formula that has shown results for your fish? How do you prepare it and how often do you feed the fish with it?
Unlike Yun, I'll try it on the fish first and if they don't die maybe I'll try it !

[Skip]

Try avocado stan. ;)

Ps. If someone has a spare juicer send it to me!

[Bilbo]

For my fish all I have tried is one bag of carrots, one bag of celery, one sweet potato, one beet, and about a handful of spinach. I may have had one other item in there but just like for me when I juice, carrots, celery, beet and sweet potato are the base. I throw other things in there along with it on occasion when i'm juicing for myself. Anyway, I juiced those items and then me and the kids drank most of it and I saved a small glass for the fish. I then fill a lid of juice and put my Fdbw in it. Sometimes I have let them soak for about 5 minutes and sometimes for about 20. Lately I have been dumping the excess, unabsorbed juice and just swooshing the lid of worms in the tank. The fish go nuts.