When is a discus no longer juvenile?

[locodiscus]

Discus noob here getting close to making my first discus purchase for a 56 gallon display tank in a formal living room. I had planned on getting five juvies (3" from Discus Hans) to save money. I've been obsessively reading SD for the last few weeks and now realize that bare-bottom is a must for juvies. Since wife's not thrilled about that look in a formal living room and we all want a display tank right away, we've decided to instead go with a larger size that can go in immediately. My question is how big would that be? In discuspaul's Beginner's Guide sticky, he sounds like he's saying 4 inches would be considered a near adult. So is that that the size where a discus is no longer a juvenile and therefore big enough to go straight into a display tank? Really hope so because the price for 5 full-sized adults is way too much.

The display tank, in my case, would have 1 inch of pool filter sand and lightly planted. That is, a few anubias and/or Java ferns tied to a single Malaysian driftwood. Also have a couple branches of Manzanita. Right now, there's only the sand while it's cycling (fishless).

I have two AquaClear 70 HOBs with Fluval pre-filter sponges. Each have 2 foam blocks and 2 AC 70 BioMax bags. Also have 2 100-watt Cobalt Neo-Therm heaters. I plan on replacing one of the foam blocks with a bag of Purigen.

Thanks for any help!

[blueluv]

About 4.5 -5" , I think they're referred to as sub-adults. Looks like your the right path with your set. If not the 56 gallon what size are you planning on getting. If you're planning a planted tank, I would go with discus about 5 or 6".

[blueluv]

Are you planning on growing out these juvies in the 55 and then move them to the bigger planted tank?

[camuth8]

I agree with Chris. 4.5-5" is probably the beginning of adulthood.

[discuspaul]

Sure, go ahead & aqua-scape your tank now, in preparation for getting 5 or 6 - 4" discus. Feed them right and do the necessary wcs, and you'll be surprised at how quickly they can reach and surpass the 5"mark, then being almost adults.
And your proposed preparation & set-up sounds just fine. Go for it, and best of luck to you.

[Skip]

9months

[locodiscus]

Are you planning on growing out these juvies in the 55 and then move them to the bigger planted tank?

Thanks for your reply. I was planning on keeping them in our 56 gallon column tank which will be lightly planted. That's the biggest we can fit in our living room space. From what I've been reading, 55 gallon is the minimum size and I'm keeping with the 1 discus per 10 gallon rule. Also trying to minimize the bio load by keeping the tank mates to just one zebra pleco and a couple cories for my cleaning crew (which I will quarantine).

[locodiscus]

Sure, go ahead & aqua-scape your tank now, in preparation for getting 5 or 6 - 4" discus. Feed them right and do the necessary wcs, and you'll be surprised at how quickly they can reach and surpass the 5"mark, then being almost adults.
And your proposed preparation & set-up sounds just fine. Go for it, and best of luck to you.

Thanks!

[blueluv]

Thanks for your reply. I was planning on keeping them in our 56 gallon column tank which will be lightly planted. That's the biggest we can fit in our living room space. From what I've been reading, 55 gallon is the minimum size and I'm keeping with the 1 discus per 10 gallon rule. Also trying to minimize the bio load by keeping the tank mates to just one zebra pleco and a couple cories for my cleaning crew (which I will quarantine).

Anytime :) Two things that stand out here are the column tank and zebra pleco. 55 is the minimum except for a column tank, not enough space for discus to swim around. Also imo the zebra pleco would not be ideal for discus. If you want a pleco, then go with the long fin bristle nose pleco. Other than that you're in the right track for discus keeping.

[locodiscus]

Anytime :) Two things that stand out here are the column tank and zebra pleco. 55 is the minimum except for a column tank, not enough space for discus to swim around. Also imo the zebra pleco would not be ideal for discus. If you want a pleco, then go with the long fin bristle nose pleco. Other than that you're in the right track for discus keeping.

I chose the zebra pleco because they're being sold from the same place I'm getting the discus (Discus Hans). Figured if he's selling them then they have to be okay. Also thinking that it would eliminate the need to quarantine since the fish are being purchased at same time/place.

[blueluv]

Discus Hans sells zebra plecos?

[locodiscus]

Discus Hans sells zebra plecos?

Check out his online store under Other Fish.

[blueluv]

Ohhh!? He does sell zebra plecos. I just checked his sponsor section

[camuth8]

Yep. Hans has other fish besides discus. Hard to believe after what an impact he had on this forum with discus. :D

[strawberryblonde]

When you say column, just how column is the tank? In other words, what are the dimension? Discus need a fairly good sized area for swimming, and having driftwood in the tank is going to cut that swimming space even more.

I raised 4" discus from Hans in a 54g pentagonal tank, and, to be blunt, it was a pain the butt to do water changes. By the time they reached 5" I was already at my wits end, purchased a new tank and got them moved pronto.

Here are the things that made cleaning a tall, skinny tank no fun:

1) My driftwood - It was really hard to get the substrate truly clean with the driftwood sitting in the middle of the tank. It meant that at least three times a week I had to get out my plastic mat, several towels and then lift out the driftwood and vacuum. Then put the driftwood back in, which stirred up anything I'd missed...ugh.

2) Plants - siphoning beefheart out of them beat up the leaves and left me growling in frustration. Discus shed their slime coat constantly, and that stuff sticks to the leaves, which makes them magnets for food bits that the cory's won't be able to find.

3) The basic design was so tall that it was difficult to maneuver the siphon into all the corners... so a thorough daily water change took twice as long as it needed to.

It can be done, but you might want to consider other options. There's the possibility that you might actually find a bare bottom tank not quite so ugly as you imagine it to be! You can paint the bottom of the tank with textured paint (the type that looks like sandstone) or even just plain white or off white. Then add a few small potted plants. They are easy to shove around the tank as you siphon and make life easier. Or hang driftwood along the back of the tank and tie the plants onto it...just make sure that it doesn't actually touch the bottom of the tank and you'll be good to go...no moving food getting caught under the wood!

That would make growing out your discus a lot easier on you, and if it's easier, it's more likely that you'll perform the daily upkeep and be successful. =)

And that brings me to the size of discus. I'm gonna jump right in here and say that 5" or even 6" isn't necessarily an adult discus. I made that assumption when I bought my first batch of discus from Hans, only to discover that they continued growing right through their second year of life. They all ended up in the 7+" - 9" range! No way those guys ever could fit back into my original 54 gallon tank...even if there wasn't a stick of wood or a single plant in there.

Would it be possible to grow them out in the column tank for now and to search for a tank that might fit into the room that's a bit bigger than 56 gallons? I'm thinking of a corner tank. They call them quarter rounds. They're VERY pretty and even a 75 gallon has a small footprint.

As far as the rest of your plans regarding companion fish go, they sound good to me and you are doing your homework first which is awesome! Welcome to the forums!

[jsullins]

I would ditch the AC 70 BioMax bags and replace it with seachem Matrix, but that's just me.

[lipadj46]

I would ditch the AC 70 BioMax bags and replace it with seachem Matrix, but that's just me.

Meh matrix is boring I'd do something exotic like Bio home or that new stuff that comes in blocks you can cut with a hacksaw

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[locodiscus]

When you say column, just how column is the tank? In other words, what are the dimension? Discus need a fairly good sized area for swimming, and having driftwood in the tank is going to cut that swimming space even more.

I raised 4" discus from Hans in a 54g pentagonal tank, and, to be blunt, it was a pain the butt to do water changes. By the time they reached 5" I was already at my wits end, purchased a new tank and got them moved pronto.

Here are the things that made cleaning a tall, skinny tank no fun:

1) My driftwood - It was really hard to get the substrate truly clean with the driftwood sitting in the middle of the tank. It meant that at least three times a week I had to get out my plastic mat, several towels and then lift out the driftwood and vacuum. Then put the driftwood back in, which stirred up anything I'd missed...ugh.

2) Plants - siphoning beefheart out of them beat up the leaves and left me growling in frustration. Discus shed their slime coat constantly, and that stuff sticks to the leaves, which makes them magnets for food bits that the cory's won't be able to find.

3) The basic design was so tall that it was difficult to maneuver the siphon into all the corners... so a thorough daily water change took twice as long as it needed to.

It can be done, but you might want to consider other options. There's the possibility that you might actually find a bare bottom tank not quite so ugly as you imagine it to be! You can paint the bottom of the tank with textured paint (the type that looks like sandstone) or even just plain white or off white. Then add a few small potted plants. They are easy to shove around the tank as you siphon and make life easier. Or hang driftwood along the back of the tank and tie the plants onto it...just make sure that it doesn't actually touch the bottom of the tank and you'll be good to go...no moving food getting caught under the wood!

That would make growing out your discus a lot easier on you, and if it's easier, it's more likely that you'll perform the daily upkeep and be successful. =)

And that brings me to the size of discus. I'm gonna jump right in here and say that 5" or even 6" isn't necessarily an adult discus. I made that assumption when I bought my first batch of discus from Hans, only to discover that they continued growing right through their second year of life. They all ended up in the 7+" - 9" range! No way those guys ever could fit back into my original 54 gallon tank...even if there wasn't a stick of wood or a single plant in there.

Would it be possible to grow them out in the column tank for now and to search for a tank that might fit into the room that's a bit bigger than 56 gallons? I'm thinking of a corner tank. They call them quarter rounds. They're VERY pretty and even a 75 gallon has a small footprint.

As far as the rest of your plans regarding companion fish go, they sound good to me and you are doing your homework first which is awesome! Welcome to the forums!

We bought the 56 gallon with stand from Petsmart. The dimensions are 30" W x 18" D x 24" H. The only available space in our living room is 32" bump out wall so this tank/stand is the biggest that I've found that we can practically fit. I see your point about the substrate cleaning but I have a feeling your hex tank was taller than mine. I can still see mine being a pain to clean especially with its annoying support bar that goes across the top middle. I'll play it by ear and remove the driftwood if my experience becomes like yours.

I'm considering having a larger tank in our basement but wanna see how I handle this one first. Don't wanna spread myself too thin. Would really prefer though that I can keep the discus in our living room so we can show them off more as opposed to them being hidden in the basement. Thanks for your advice. Always find it useful.

[lipadj46]

Ohhh!? He does sell zebra plecos. I just checked his sponsor section

Those are not "zebra plecos" (L046) they are L129 and are ancistrus type plecos that can live in temps up to 82 degrees so should be good with discus.

Unfortunately your tank is not going to be ideal for a shoal of adult discus. It will probably work for a while but then when they start pairing up there won't be enough space for them to spread out and get out of each other's way

[blueluv]

Meh matrix is boring I'd do something exotic like Bio home or that new stuff that comes in blocks you can cut with a hacksaw

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code
Never heard of this bio media before?

Those are not "zebra plecos" (L046) they are L129 and are ancistrus type plecos that can live in temps up to 82 degrees so should be good with discus.

Unfortunately your tank is not going to be ideal for a shoal of adult discus. It will probably work for a while but then when they start pairing up there won't be enough space for them to spread out and get out of each other's way
+1 That's the point was trying to get across, I just didn't specify. Thanks:D

[Skip]

My question is how big would that be? In discuspaul's Beginner's Guide sticky, he sounds like he's saying 4 inches would be considered a near adult. So is that that the size where a discus is no longer a juvenile and therefore big enough to go straight into a display tank?

don't forget its about the AGE of the fish.. not the size that determines fry/juvi/young adult/adult.. there are many 4" discus that are adults.. or even some 3" <--stunted..
when size is being discussed as an indicator of age.. it is ASSUMED that the fish has been in excellent conditions to provide maximum growth... since that is not always the case..

if you get an 4" fish from Hans.. it SHOULD be about 4 months.. +/- a few weeks..

[lipadj46]

Never heard of this bio media before?

This stuff looks interesting, called marinepure:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=269010&highlight=bio+media

Bio home is cool stuff too, they have regular and stuff with some sort of nutrients mixed in:

http://www.reinbiotech.com/pets/animal-categories/admin/admin

[blueluv]

This stuff looks interesting, called marinepure:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=269010&highlight=bio+media

Bio home is cool stuff too, they have regular and stuff with some sort of nutrients mixed in:

http://www.reinbiotech.com/pets/animal-categories/admin/admin

The marine bio pure looks very porous. I might give the bio spheres a try

[strawberryblonde]

We bought the 56 gallon with stand from Petsmart. The dimensions are 30" W x 18" D x 24" H. The only available space in our living room is 32" bump out wall so this tank/stand is the biggest that I've found that we can practically fit. I see your point about the substrate cleaning but I have a feeling your hex tank was taller than mine. I can still see mine being a pain to clean especially with its annoying support bar that goes across the top middle. I'll play it by ear and remove the driftwood if my experience becomes like yours.

I'm considering having a larger tank in our basement but wanna see how I handle this one first. Don't wanna spread myself too thin. Would really prefer though that I can keep the discus in our living room so we can show them off more as opposed to them being hidden in the basement. Thanks for your advice. Always find it useful.

Those dimensions aren't all that much different than my pent tank. Mine was 28" high and 24" wide as well as deep. Your experience might be different than mine, but with the top support and the smaller width, depth, I just found trying to clean in and around driftwood and plants to be quite awful.

Not sure what a bump out wall looks like on paper, but would a cube tank work? It still isn't a lot of room side to side for them to spread out, but the greater depth will allow for more movement in the tank. I'm trying to think of options for the future when they've grown out a bit and are getting too big for the current tank. And yep, I'm truly afraid that's going to happen to you. The only way they're going to fit in that tank as full sized adults is if you eliminate the driftwood or use just a couple of skinny branches. Don't forget that driftwood doesn't just take up space, it also reduces the volume of water in the tank by as much as 15%.