Summer of Unhappy Fishes

[Second Hand Pat]

It has been a very wet summer here in Florida with way heavier rains then normal. I draw my water from a deep well and normally my water is very good to me. However with all the rain I have a lot of sentiment in the water. I fill my WC barrows in the morning and by afternoon when I get home from work I can't see the bottom of the barrow. :(

Many of the fish have been pretty unhappy with them going dark and slower growth. Normally you would just up the WCs but in my case I have been reducing the WC to 50% and adding a little lite salt to keep everyone happier. The wilds in the RO/tap mix have fared much better.

Since the rain have not lighten up I decided to add a high flow filter to the input water with a carbon block and sediment filter. I filled the WC barrow with the filtered water this morning and so far it is totally clear :D and this weekend is a weekend of WCs for me. Thank goodness for a three day weekend. I also want to thank Larry and Paul for this. In the UK this filter is called a HMA filter I believe.


http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMG_0386_zpsd4fac36e.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/IMG_0386_zpsd4fac36e.jpg.html)
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMG_0387_zps6e29dd32.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/IMG_0387_zps6e29dd32.jpg.html)

[pastry]

Yeah Pat, we've gotten a TON of rain in Charleston this summer too. I use the local tap but I've found this year that due to all the rain they've been playing with the water constantly. Not as bad as what you're dealing with regarding your well water but definitely having some issues with water due to the rains as well.

[Discus415]

Pat,

Where did you purchase the filter housing and tubing from?

[Second Hand Pat]

From Buckeye Field Supply.

Note that the parts list numbers have changed


2 BFS-328 Blue 20-inch housing, 1/2 inch

Tubing 1/2 inch (sold by the foot)

2 BFS-329 Straight 1/2 inch npt x 1/2 inch quick connect

2 BFS-362 Elbow 1/2 inch npt x 1/2 inch quick connect

BFS-338 Sediment Filter, 20 x 2.5, 1 Mic., 2-Pack

BFS-5101 Carbon block cartridge - Chlorine Guzzler, 20 x 2.5 inch

BFS-331 Micro-valve, 1/2 inch quick connect

This is for the basic filter and I ordered an extra BFS-329 (Straight 1/2 inch npt x 1/2 inch quick) and a part from Home Depot to connect it to a potable hose. Parts list is compliments of Larry.

[strawberryblonde]

I have a simple solution for ya Pat...just send those fishies out to me. Idaho doesn't have that thing called rain. =)

[Second Hand Pat]

LOL Toni...but glad you have water :D

[Second Hand Pat]

Yeah Pat, we've gotten a TON of rain in Charleston this summer too. I use the local tap but I've found this year that due to all the rain they've been playing with the water constantly. Not as bad as what you're dealing with regarding your well water but definitely having some issues with water due to the rains as well.

It's been a rough summer Elliot

[Second Hand Pat]

So did the first WCs with the filtered water. What a difference. The F1 Cuipeua lighten up and was looking for food during the fill. Before they were dark and huddled in the corner. :D I is a happy camper.

[PP_GBR]

Pat,

May I ask what the pros and cons of using 20 inc. housing? TIA.

[Second Hand Pat]

PP, what am I comparing this too? For me my goals with using this is to filter the sentiment out of the water and have a comparable flow rate to the potable hose I was using to fill my WC barrow up daily. The flow rate is somwhat diminshed but good enough. Prior to using the filter after a 90% WC the unfiltered water was a cloudy, yellowish color. My water is nice and clear now. The fish are much happier.

I guess the con is the somewhat reduced flow rate.

[PP_GBR]

Pat,

I'm just curious as most systems I've seen are the 10 inc. housing and yours is double the size. I'm indeed looking for a system like yours but I prefer the output flow rate slower than the input FR. Not sure it's available.

Thanks again Pat.

[100fuegos]

You should consider adding at least one GAC filter between the sediment and the CTO filter.

[Second Hand Pat]

Like one of these...BFS-5101 Carbon block cartridge - Chlorine Guzzler, 20 x 2.5 inch?

[100fuegos]

No, I may have not explained myself clear. You already have one sediment + one CTO cartridges, if I were you I would add one GAC cartridge in between.

[Second Hand Pat]

So you feel the carbon block is not enough?

[100fuegos]

Now that I think of it I remember you were on well water right? So if not removing chlorine nor chloramines it may be more than enough. In any case it will not hurt to have two stages of carbon.

[Second Hand Pat]

I am on a well and my main reason for getting putting together this filter was due to all the sediment in the water from this summers rains. I will keep a GAC in mind.

[papyol]

Pat I use the same set up (thanks to Larry) an it works flawlessly ;)

[Keith Perkins]

Did I miss what it cost up and running?

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat I use the same set up (thanks to Larry) an it works flawlessly ;)

Esteban, Larry helped my with mine also :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Did I miss what it cost up and running?

Keith, all the parts with shipping was about $180. It is a high flow and I hook it to my hose and fill the WC barrows with it. So the cost of running is replacing the sediment and GAC filter as needed.

[PP_GBR]

Pat

I found a 3/4 inc. dual system without pressure relief button. Do you think I need the PRB or not? I was going to order it but thought to ask you first. TIA.

[Second Hand Pat]

It depends on the purpose of the PRB. I honestly have not really considered it. I would think it would be useful to have if you did have internal pressure and needed to dismantle the system. Could be wrong here but seems internal pressure could prevent you from being able to dismantle the system.

[100fuegos]

Pat

I found a 3/4 inc. dual system without pressure relief button. Do you think I need the PRB or not? I was going to order it but thought to ask you first. TIA.

It is usefull to exaust the air from inside the containers when you first run water through it.

[Second Hand Pat]

It is usefull to exaust the air from inside the containers when you first run water through it.

When you exaust the air that could increase the flow rate??

[musicmarn1]

I need something on my well, what made you choose this instead of RO water for all?

[100fuegos]

When you exaust the air that could increase the flow rate??

I do not know that model you are using but in mine when I replace the filters (every three months) if I do not exaust the air, in some cases, the water will not even flow at all but for sure the flow rate is greatly reduced. The air contained inside cause a back presure.

[Second Hand Pat]

Normally my well water is fine. With all the rains this summer there is a lot of sediment in the water and it annoys the fish something awful, especially fry and juvies. This filter is a much better solution then a full up RO solution in terms of water waste plus needing the ability to generating enough RO water (plus remin it) for all my needs.

[100fuegos]

Added a picture of my setup

[musicmarn1]

Added a picture of my setup


where? didnt see it here or on your profile?

[PP_GBR]

Pat:

I'm going to hook it up to the sink faucet. So I do not need it right. I asked the man and he said I do not need it. If I have to replace the filter, I'd take the unit to the bathtub.

100F:

This is the dual system :

http://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/WCStandardCanisters.htm

I like them because they come with fittings. How about this filter: RV-GAC with KDF, scale inhibitor. Again, the man told me it's safe for fish. What do you think?

http://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/RCCarbonCartridge.htm

Is your system hooked up to main water line?

Thanks.

[Second Hand Pat]

PP_GBR, the duel system are only the 10 inch canisters, mine are 20 in. Also the flow rates do not seem very high on the 10in carbon cartridges. Regards the scale inhibitor I do not really know.

I hook my system up to a potable hose.

What are you trying to do and what flow rates are you looking for?

[100fuegos]

Pat:

I'm going to hook it up to the sink faucet. So I do not need it right. I asked the man and he said I do not need it. If I have to replace the filter, I'd take the unit to the bathtub.

100F:

This is the dual system :

http://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/WCStandardCanisters.htm

I like them because they come with fittings. How about this filter: RV-GAC with KDF, scale inhibitor. Again, the man told me it's safe for fish. What do you think?

http://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/RCCarbonCartridge.htm

Is your system hooked up to main water line?

Thanks.

Dual systems are basically the same stuff as mine, except that I have three dual containers + one single container threaded together. I buy the fittings myself and set them up as needed. In regards of the filter I think you guys in the US are paying premium prices, I can buy a 10" carbon block filter for under 3 € here in Europe, (buy them locally, Spain, for under 4 €). Bought last month a 25 kg sack of GAC for 44 € so I can refill my containers for like forever.

Yes I have the filters plumbed to my tap water. I have recently made a slight modification to the line and now I can refill with warm tap water using a food grade hose and solar heated water saving lots €€€ in electricity.

One question, have you ever heard of ceramic cartridges? they seem to reduce hardness and paracites and can be easily cleaned and reused forever.

[PP_GBR]

Pat

I need something not to bulky so it's easy to hide. LOL. I just have to try it then.


@100F

Wish I could do something like yours without breaking the bank here. Ceramic like one of these:

http://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/RCSpecialtyCartridge.htm

They are very expensive.

Thanks all.

[Nimeni]

@100fuegos: try to improve your system adding the third filter: I use a triple 10 ": 1 filter- 5 micron ceramic; 2 filter- Ceramic & Carbo (or you can use rechargeable carbon) and 3 filter- STERASYL filter:.... filters up to 0.2 micron. ;)

Ps: I did not notice any difference at ceramic filter, maybe because I have imperceptible values: ​​Gh2 - Kh 1,5 (tap water)...

And.... "price & prices" :

Filter: http://plici.ro/thumbs/060320-1379094773.jpg (http://plici.ro/?v=060320-1379094773.jpg)

Replacement cartridges: http://plici.ro/thumbs/060320-1379094840.jpg (http://plici.ro/?v=060320-1379094840.jpg)

[100fuegos]

Yes, like that ones, but at less than 17 USD (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cartucho-Filtro-Agua-Ceramica-Reduce-Impurezas-Filtrado-0-9-Micron-/121166509544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item1c361635e8). Have not tried them myself but will do for my next set of filters. Only hope the flow rate is at least 2 G per minute.

[100fuegos]

@100fuegos: try to improve your system adding the third filter: I use a triple 10 ": 1 filter- 5 micron ceramic; 2 filter- Ceramic & Carbo (or you can use rechargeable carbon) and 3 filter- STERASYL filter:.... filters up to 0.2 micron. ;)

Ps: I did not notice any difference at ceramic filter, maybe because I have imperceptible values: ​​Gh2 - Kh 1,5 (tap water)...

And.... "price & prices" :

Filter: http://plici.ro/thumbs/060320-1379094773.jpg (http://plici.ro/?v=060320-1379094773.jpg)
Replacement cartridges: http://plici.ro/thumbs/060320-1379094840.jpg (http://plici.ro/?v=060320-1379094840.jpg)


OHHHH MAN!!!! I can name myself lucky. Anyway, I try to keep it cheap and simple. I use 5 micron sediment - 2X Zeolites - 2X GAC - 2X CTO. Zeolites will take care of chloramines and are rechargeable with table salt (NaCl). My water is almost liquid rock and my PH is 8.2 out of the tap. It does not change at all so no need to age, my discus have grown from dime size in this. That is the reason I want to try the ceramic filter as a last stage in my filtration system.

By the way you can buy in Germany a double 10" housing for 15 €. Filters are around 3 € in UK.

[Nimeni]

By the way you can buy in Germany a double 10" housing for 15 €. Filters are around 3 € in UK.

He-heee.... I know this: all purchases I make in Germany ;)

But... attention to Zeolite:
1: InMyOpinion... Zeolites can adsorb ammonia and other nitrogenous compounds, NOT chloramines!
2: Activated carbon (GAC) removes chlorine... And this ONLY if you have a certain flow (350-500L/H)
3: Zeolites... after a certain period he behaves like carbon: he discards all accumulated substances back in the water.

The fact that your fish grow well does not mean that the filtering is ok: the fish it adapts. But the hardness of the water, you can not decrease than.... with a RO system ;) (trust me)

[100fuegos]

1. They do.
2. Flow rate for WC is around that. One full year of every day WC can prove my method works.
3. Zeolites will stop adsorbing when saturated and will start shedding ammonia if Na ions are present (adding salt to water). I replace and recharge my zeolites, and every filter, every three months.

No need of RO water to grow out fish, tap water is perfectly ok even my liquid rock. Have not tried yet as stated above but manufacturers claim ceramic cartridges reduce hardness. Will have to find out for myself if any significant reduction is attained.

[Tazalanche]

It looks like Buckeye Field Supply has changed their name to Buckeye Hydro and their part numbers have changed too.

http://www.buckeyehydro.com

Example on part numbers (please correct me if I provided the wrong link):
2 BFS-328 Blue 20-inch housing, 1/2 inch appears to now be SKU: 0603 (http://www.buckeyehydro.com/commercial-housings/)
Tubing 1/2 inch (sold by the foot) (http://www.buckeyehydro.com/pe-tubing/)

[Second Hand Pat]

David, I found a better website from which to buy the tubing. Let me look around and see if I can find it. Yes, Buckeye changed their name. I got an email on that a while back. Was not aware of the part number redo :(

[blueluv]

Hey Pat
I know this is an old thread but I have a quick question for you. Do you still age your water even though you run your water thru your HMA filter ?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Pat
I know this is an old thread but I have a quick question for you. Do you still age your water even though you run your water thru your HMA filter ?

Absolutely Chris, I have a ph swing from 7.4 to 8.2, takes four hours of aeration to stabilize the ph.

[blueluv]

Absolutely Chris, I have a ph swing from 7.4 to 8.2, takes four hours of aeration to stabilize the ph.

Wow! We have almost the same ph swing. I'm asking because I have an almost similar HMA filter as yours and wondered about aging the water afterwards. So after 4 hrs you turn off the aeration an do a WC? I'm asking because I'll be getting back into discus soon , I hope.


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[Second Hand Pat]

I can Chris but generally have to wait a bit longer to allow the heater to catch up. Hope you get back into discus. :D

[blueluv]

I can Chris but generally have to wait a bit longer to allow the heater to catch up. Hope you get back into discus. :D

Awesome , thank you Pat. :) I hope so , their such fascinating creatures.


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[Second Hand Pat]

Awesome , thank you Pat. :) I hope so , their such fascinating creatures.


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Yes they are Chris. :D

[MKD]

Pat,
will this work on tap water line and not using prime? Also, if i have old RO filter housing, can i just buy those 2 Carbon block cartridge & Sediment Filter ?

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat,
will this work on tap water line and not using prime? Also, if i have old RO filter housing, can i just buy those 2 Carbon block cartridge & Sediment Filter ?

Believe so Tony. I would suggest PMing Ryan (our old admin) and asking him. I believe he has the setup you are asking about. About the RO housing I would think so. The only downside is it would be a low flow solution.

[MKD]

thank you Pat. i think i'll be ok with flow because my store it in 110G tank and WC for 3 breeding tanks.

[Second Hand Pat]

Ok Tony, just make sure you get the carbon block which removes chlorine/chloramine.

[lippy423]

Pat, how deep is your well? I'm over here in WP and my well is 30'...not having any problems with cloudy water and fish seem good with 3 water changes a day while I vacum out the tank....thought about ageing the water but it comes out at a steady 72 degrees with no issues. Wonder if all the rain is causing the tanic groundwater in your area to infiltrate your well water...??

[Second Hand Pat]

Chris, my well is over 330 feet deep. I do find the TDS fluctuates seasonal about 30 ppm. I do not have cloudy water. I age my water due to a ph swing, not a temperature difference.

[tonysdiscus]

Very good info here Pat!!

[flowandbehold]

Hi Pat,

A LFS in Malta is selling HMA filters like crazy. However I doubt these reduce nitrates in tap water as this is my main concern. GH, KH and pH gradually went down from a couple of years back but 50ppm NO3 is simply a no-no for discus.
Do you notice any change in water parameters between water going in & out of the HMA?

For now I'm using my trusty well water for my Rio Nanay scalare but with rain being totally absent so far this winter, I'm weighing my options on whether to buy a filter like yours or invest in a RO.

:D

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Pat,

A LFS in Malta is selling HMA filters like crazy. However I doubt these reduce nitrates in tap water as this is my main concern. GH, KH and pH gradually went down from a couple of years back but 50ppm NO3 is simply a no-no for discus.
Do you notice any change in water parameters between water going in & out of the HMA?

For now I'm using my trusty well water for my Rio Nanay scalare but with rain being totally absent so far this winter, I'm weighing my options on whether to buy a filter like yours or invest in a RO.

:D

Hi, you will need to see what the cartridge removes from the water. I doubt the GAC (carbon block part) I am using effects GH, KH, TDS or pH. I do not have nitrates in my source water so can't help with that.
Pat

[SidJones]

I have been dealing with sediment for years now. I contacted Buckeye Hydro and we put together a system very similar to Pat's. I placed an order yesterday and it shipped within hours. Today I realized I missed a few items and placed a second order. I ordered the wrong screws which Buckeye caught and called me to confirm. I explained that I am in Iraq and that my wife had passed the message. Buckeye thanked me for my service and gave me my second order for free, about $30.00. I did tell them that I was here as a soldier during Operation Desert Storm (1990) and that I was currently serving in a civilian capacity. I just wanted to share this awesome experience and that it feels good to know that there are still some good people in this world.