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View Full Version : Need some advice and recommendation - Rubbing and heavy breathing it getting better



For100
09-10-2013, 04:43 PM
Please complete thus questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste). The more details you can provide, the better we are able to diagnose and help you treat your sick fish.

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

I am having some issues with my 6" Penang Eruption. It is flashing and rubbing against things, it is the only fish in the tank exhibiting this issue. it started in late July after I came from vacations, I did frequent water changes(about 40% every other day) to rule out water quality for the next 3 weeks.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


While my other fish are doing good, no issues and eating like pigs; this female is dark, shows stress bars, lethargic, heavy breathing both gills, flashing and rubbing against objects in the tank. She will immediately hide as soon as I come close to the tank, but comes out with the others after a few minutes. Won't eat and won't move from an specific space in the tank. Sometimes, it gets close to the surface and stays there for awhile, but not always

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

After the first 3 wks, I decided to treat for gill flukes given the heavy breathing and rubbing. I did a complete 10 days treatment of API General Cure to treat flukes, finished last week. Followed instructions, one tablet per 10gallon.

Currently, she shows no improvements. I don't know what else to do at this point;other than continue water changes and look for an alternative treatment. Not sure if the treatment was too short, or if I should try something else to rule out other things than flukes.

She is currently in a QT tank, BB. I change about 40% water changes every other day. No feeding at all because she won't eat. Temperature and parameters are listed below.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

180 gallon planted tank + 30gallon sump, 12 fish. All fish are 6"+, several confirmed pairs. Some fighting is going around, which I believe contributed to the problem.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
I usually change about 30 to 40% twice per week. The last 3 weeks, every other day. I use 80/20 RO tap water ratio. Don't use prime or any other product, I run my water thru sediment and activated carbon filters. I age my water about 24hours or more.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tank has been running for 4 years, 4" silicate sand substrate. Not heavily planted, but 4 or 5 sword plants.
CO2 system, running about 2 bubbles per second. pH hovers around 6.4/6.5 using a controller to regulate CO2 flow. All other fish are doing great.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Yes, about 24hours. pH swing is not big. Tap is about 7.2 and aged water is 6.8 after is mix 80/20.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 82F

- ph ___6.4/6.5__

- ammonia reading 0ppm

- nitrite reading 0ppm

- nitrate reading < 5ppm

Hardness is between 80 to 100 ppm.

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water 20%

- RO water 80%


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No changes in the last 4 months, no issue with other fish.

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.


I will try to shoot a video later today.

Madaboutdiscus
09-10-2013, 11:19 PM
Hmm this is interesting. Hopefully somebody with more experience can help. I had one we thought had flukes had flaring gill and flashing. Treated with quick cure for 2 days. No more flashing but the gill still flares. It just now started eating again really well. Wonder if it could possibly be worms.

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For100
09-11-2013, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the suggestion... At negative reaction to Quick Cure? I used to treat flukes with formaline in the late 1990's. But I believed Prazi is a better choice. Unfortunately in this instance, I am clueless as Prazi did not work. I am looking to rule out flukes and/or confirm bacterial infection. Any good method to do so beside using a microscope?

About worms, I don't believe should be the case. I treated her with Prazi, it should have take care of tapeworms. I also de-wormed the entire tank a couple of months back with flubenazole.

Thanks advance for any suggestions...

Madaboutdiscus
09-11-2013, 07:11 PM
Hmm somethings obviously irritating them. What kind of shapes your heater in? If its putting out a current would that cause flashing maybe? Have you seen any non parasitic nematodes in there? I read sometimes they can get in the discus gills and irritate them. The fish didnt have a bad reaction to the quick cure the gill was already flaring. The breeder suggested the quick cure which has formalin in it. I think its just that the damage was done or it could just have a short gill plate. Not sure.

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trungnguyen
09-11-2013, 08:06 PM
big WC may help a lot, 40% seems not enough

Madaboutdiscus
09-11-2013, 08:34 PM
big WC may help a lot, 40% seems not enough

Water changes are always a big help lol.

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For100
09-19-2013, 03:04 PM
An update since my last post..... I started to do WC of about 40% on a daily basis (water aged about 24hrs); but I have not seen any improvement. On the contrary, I believe it is a bit worse than before as it has turned really dark and hangs close to the surface close to 45 degrees. I have not added any medications other than a small amount of aquarium salt on every WC.
I can see some gill filament hanging, it is white-ish in color and it seems like a thin gill membrane. Given that WCs have not made the trick so far. What do you think it should be my next step?
You can see the video attached, while filming I really scared her and darted back and forth in the tank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZxhQyGmbI&feature=youtu.be

I don't want to lose this female, even though she has not eaten for about 4 week is still thick. I am growing concern as I am not able to get her fixed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZxhQyGmbI&feature=youtu.be

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated

JERRYKEVIN
09-19-2013, 04:12 PM
Fish is very dark. I would treat with tetra parasite guard

Madaboutdiscus
09-19-2013, 04:47 PM
Id definitely treat for a parasite. If wc and stuff isnt helping and she is very dark. With those gills like that id think flukes.

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PP_GBR
09-19-2013, 07:48 PM
Master Rick,

I'm calling you for your attention here. I'd treat it with API Fungus Cure and what do you think? Please help save the fish.
TIA.

nc0gnet0
09-19-2013, 08:48 PM
A scope would be nice in this instance, could be flukes but I don't think so. I have never had a tank in which flukes only infected one fish. Not saying it isn't possible, but seems unlikley. With that in mind my best GUESS is a bacterial gill infection. My treatment would be furan 2 along with kanamycin and a half a dose of meth blue to aid in breathing. Do not add salt.


Rick

jimg
09-20-2013, 06:28 AM
I would not waste meds on that fish imo what I can see from video it is too far gone, cull it before it get the others sick. Any time you see one start darting/flashing etc 2 things work, treat with qc or 3% salt dip. I prefer the salt dip. it more than likely has other health issues and what you see are the results.

For100
09-20-2013, 12:07 PM
Hi Rick,

I was thinking the same thing. I will give it a try. I will stop by LFS to buy it this afternoon.
If I don't see any improvement in the next 7 days, I will go ahead with Jim suggestion.

Thanks

FOR100

PP_GBR
09-20-2013, 12:12 PM
Master Rick: Thanks for the RX.

@100: Please give the fish another chance. Good luck.

@Jmg: My favorite is PP over QC.

fredyx
09-20-2013, 04:02 PM
A scope would be nice in this instance, could be flukes but I don't think so. I have never had a tank in which flukes only infected one fish. Not saying it isn't possible, but seems unlikley. With that in mind my best GUESS is a bacterial gill infection. My treatment would be furan 2 along with kanamycin and a half a dose of meth blue to aid in breathing. Do not add salt.


Rick
+1 seems bacterial to me too