NEED HELP WITH DIAGNOSIS and TREATMENT

[Jstudwell]

Hi all, I'm new to SD and this is my first post...Wish it was not a request for help, but such is life.
I have been keeping Discus for approx 3 months now. I originally purchased two and then three more about a month later.
I don't know exactly how old the fish are, however I would assume they would be considered juveniles as I'm fairly certain they are not over six months old.
I am keeping the two largest ones (approx 2.5-3"+/-) from mouth to base of tail in a 40g planted tank. The other three, all approx 2", in a bare 20g quarantine tank.
My question/concern is this: The largest of the two fish I have in the 40g started darting around the tank two days ago...Not all the time, it was when I was going to bed for the evening, just after turning the light off. I only heard this as he must have run into the suction pipe on my HOB from the sound of it. The next morning I noticed a small area of "abraded scales" just behind his right eye, behind his gill cover and above the right pectoral fin. He also seemed to be exhibiting a little darker color than normal, and he didn't seem to be interested in eating or swimming around much. His breathing did not seem out of the ordinary. The other fish in the tank seemed to be perfectly OK. Last night the same thing occurred, right after turning off the light I heard him crash into something in the tank...I am assuming it was the filter again. This morning I checked him and noticed the small area of "abraded scales" had grown and it appeared as if he scraped his side on something. There also seemed to be another small "scrape" on his left side near the forehead. This time he seemed a little more lethargic as he didn't come up to the front of the tank when I turned on the light. He still doesn't seem to be interested in eating and his breathing still appears to be relatively normal, however at times it seems to be a little bit fast, but not labored. Again he appears to be a little darker than usual, but no where near "black" as I have seen some fish described.
As I previously mentioned the tank is a planted 40g. pH is 6.8, water temp 84 degrees F, 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, water is a 50/50 mix of filtered tap(Artesian well) and RO.
I did a 30% water change, removed the activated charcoal in the filters and dosed with Melafix and Malachite Green this morning at about 7:30am just after noticing the "new abrasions" and by 9:30am he picked up a little swimming around the tank and interacting a little with the other discus in the tank although he still looks a little dark and lethargic compared to his usual personality. Still hasn't shown any interest in eating.
Any suggestions?

[JERRYKEVIN]

Don't dose with anything. Just fresh clean water and they will heal. Seems like they are getting scared when you turn the lights off- Probably your shadow or something that is spooking them. Put the light on a timer and see what they do. Clean water

[DiscusLoverJeff]

I moved you post here so that maybe others can help you.

At the top of the page, please fill out the questionnaire so that we can get a better description of the problem and your water chemistry.

[Jstudwell]

Thanks for the reply...Will continue with the WC's. As far as turning off the light, I'll try the timer, however they have never exhibited an adverse reaction to it being turned off for the past 3-4 months...don't know what would have changed their behavior.
Thanks again.

[Jstudwell]

Default Disease Questionnaire - please complete

Please complete thus questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste). The more details you can provide, the better we are able to diagnose and help you treat your sick fish.

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them? Two nights in a row my Discus darted around the tank and scraped himself on what I believe was one of my HOB filter suction pipes. He seems to be slightly lethargic, I haven't seen him eat or act "normal" for the past two days. His breathing looks to be normal although at times it is a little fasted than normal. He also seems to be a little darker than normal and is not as active in the tank during the day and doesn't come to the front of the tank when I approach. Hangs out in the back of tank behind plants.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds). Wounds on right side behind eye, above gill and small area on left side of forehead, not eating, looks a little darker than normal. I have only witnessed him "flashing/darting" twice just after turning the light off for the evening.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment. Just did WC and dosed with Melafix and Formalin and Malicite Green (Quick Cure) (Seems to be reacting positively)



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish. 40G Planted tank, two discus approx 4-6 months old, (but not really sure on the age), size is approx 3" mouth to base of tail.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often). WC 2-3x week 25-30%


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it? Tank has been "up" for 13 months. Substrate is small gravel 1-1/2 to 2".


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing. Do not usually age water.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _84 Degrees F____

- ph _6.8____

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __<20ppm__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water __50%__

- municipal water ___0_

- RO water _50%___


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently. 2 Chinese Algae eaters about a week ago


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
I'm not a real "techie" and don't know how to get photos posted, but can email someone if they require seeing some pics.

[Jstudwell]

Thank you...Filled out and posted.

[Ryan]

Hi,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your problem may be with the Chinese algae eaters. They have been known to try and nip/suck on the discus' slime coat and can be pretty aggressive. Since that's the only thing that's really changed since you've added them, and now suddenly you're having issues, I'm thinking that either A) they brought some sort of disease into your aquarium which is stressing your discus, or B) they are spooking/chasing/nipping/sucking at your discus which would cause them to dash around and act stressed.

Is there any way to try removing the algae eaters for a while to see if things calm down and go back to normal?

As to the marks on their sides, whether inflicted by another fish or by scraping on something in the tank, they should heal on their own without the use of medication as long as you keep the water clean. Daily water changes would be good if you can manage that, 50% or so, until the marks are gone.

Also, I'm just south of you in Palm Coast, so hello!

[Crunchy]

Salt will also help relieve a little stress and help heal the cut. My 2 discus cut themselves on driftwood some time back, i put in salt and healed in a week.

[Madaboutdiscus]

Hi,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your problem may be with the Chinese algae eaters. They have been known to try and nip/suck on the discus' slime coat and can be pretty aggressive. Since that's the only thing that's really changed since you've added them, and now suddenly you're having issues, I'm thinking that either A) they brought some sort of disease into your aquarium which is stressing your discus, or B) they are spooking/chasing/nipping/sucking at your discus which would cause them to dash around and act stressed.

Is there any way to try removing the algae eaters for a while to see if things calm down and go back to normal?

As to the marks on their sides, whether inflicted by another fish or by scraping on something in the tank, they should heal on their own without the use of medication as long as you keep the water clean. Daily water changes would be good if you can manage that, 50% or so, until the marks are gone.

Also, I'm just south of you in Palm Coast, so hello!

+1

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[Chicago Discus]

The Chinese algae eater would definitely be more active at night so that could be the cause of the problem. More likley would be something irritating him in the tank. My guess would be a water quality issue, if they were my fish I would up my water changes and sit with that for a while and slow down on the meds........josie

[Jstudwell]

Ryan,
Thanks for your input.
I was a little reluctant to put the algae eaters in the tank myself...Algae was beginning to be a little bit of an issue so I chose what I believed was the better of two evils and got the AE's rather than a pleco.
As I fancy my self as a bit troubleshooter, I went back to the last thing that changed before the discus started acting strange and, I too, came to the decision that the issue manifested itself only a few days to a week after the AE's were added. (They did clean up the algae in short order). They do flit around quite rapidly, but seem to stay away from the discus, however it may just be their flighty behavior that is stressing the discus. I've also heard about them sucking on the slim coat, but haven't seen it happening. May be something going on at night. I do believe, however the injuries on the discus are "self-inflicted" as when the first one happened I heard the noise from the fish hilling an object in the tank...it was quite loud.
I did see my second discus "rubbing" an one of the plants and then darted up and rubbed on a filter line, fortunately this fish doesn't show any scale damage...at least not yet.
The larger or the two discus (the one the problem started with) shows some additional "rub"/"scrape" marks on its left side this morning (two parallel marks just behind the gill).
I will be removing the AE's today and continue with the water changes.
Thanks again for your assistance.
Regards,
John

[Jstudwell]

Josie,
Thanks for your take on my problem.
I'm tending to agree with Ryan and you that it could quite possibly be the AE's as everything was fine until I added them to the tank.
I did a 50% change last and am in the middle of another one now and will be removing the AE's. I really don't like using the meds, so I will back off on their use.
Thanks again.
Regards,
John

[Jstudwell]

Thanks...That was my first move before adding any meds...I did a 50% WC and added some salt.
I'll be doing changes every day this week in hopes of eliminating a water problem.
A couple of other members speculated that it may be the recent addition of two Chinese AE's...I tend to agree as everything was fine prior to adding them. They will be coming out today.
Regards,
John