Darting Discus

[DiscusSteve]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Initially all of my fish were darting around like crazy smashing into the sides of the tank, the bottom, and jumping. Currently it is just one discus doing this, but it does it daily (there was another one but it passed away this morning). These problems have been happening for a couple of months, but it was likely due to pH swings and I have somewhat fixed that for the time being however one discus still darts.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Darts like crazy for 5-10 seconds, then kinda hides in a corner of the tank for an hour or so


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Treated with PraziPro in case there were flukes (back when all were darting). I treated for 3 weeks at the recommended dosage. After treatment, only 2 discus remained darting.

I have also treated with metro, but for an ulcer on a discus which is unrelated to this I believe.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

55 gallon, 6x discus (had 7, 1 died today) 3"-4.5"

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

75% every other day

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Running for over 6 months, barebottom

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 91

- ph 7

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 5

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water -- 100%

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

None added since July (2 discus)


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Madaboutdiscus]

Id lower my temp down to about 87-88 and start aging your water. Id do about a 50% change every day rather than every other. Mine are much happier when their water gets changed every day. Not sure if thats the problem but im sure the ph swing doesnt help with such a large % change. But you said you fixed that so thats good. Otherwise are they eating ok? Youve treated for flukes and bacteria so theres not much left to treat.

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[strawberryblonde]

Hi Steve,

I know you've posted before about problems with your discus, so I'm going to jump in and give you my thoughts, ok?

1) There have been too many changes in the tank itself in the last 2 months and that has stressed your discus to the point that they are now showing the effects of it.

2) The tank isn't overcrowded based on the size of the discus, but is overcrowded based on the lack of daily water changes.

At this point, if it was me, I'd start fresh. By that I mean that I would pull ALL the discus and place them in a bucket with a heater and air stone, then drain the tank completely, sterilize it and fill it with 100% fresh tap water.

Don't add any salt or baking soda to the water, just use Prime or Safe to remove chlorine and chloramines. Heat and aerate the tank for a couple of hour, then place ONLY the discus back into the tank. No cories at this point. They can be a huge distraction in a small tank. I experienced that myself just a month ago during a temporary housing arrangement. My discus were very upset by the constant scurrying of the cories in that small space.

Once the discus are back in the tank, turn off the tank lights and leave a soft light on in the room during the day for them.

Then do a 50%-60% WC every single day for the next 2 weeks and watch for further symptoms. No more meds till you are SURE of what they actually have! You are only stressing them out even more by throwing so many meds at them so quickly when they are still young.

Test the pH of the water in the tank every day prior to the WC. If you find that it is dropping more than .4, up the water change by 10% and test again the next day. Do that until you reach the point that the water isn't shifting beyond that .4 mark in 24 hours.

While you are doing all that testing, do you have room to set up an aging barrel? By aging your water for 24 hours before each WC you can eliminate the pH shifting. Your other option is to add Discus Trace Elements to your water at each change, but that shouldn't be necessary if you just stick to doing a daily water change. Consistency is key!

[Madaboutdiscus]

Hi Steve,

I know you've posted before about problems with your discus, so I'm going to jump in and give you my thoughts, ok?

1) There have been too many changes in the tank itself in the last 2 months and that has stressed your discus to the point that they are now showing the effects of it.

2) The tank isn't overcrowded based on the size of the discus, but is overcrowded based on the lack of daily water changes.

At this point, if it was me, I'd start fresh. By that I mean that I would pull ALL the discus and place them in a bucket with a heater and air stone, then drain the tank completely, sterilize it and fill it with 100% fresh tap water.

Don't add any salt or baking soda to the water, just use Prime or Safe to remove chlorine and chloramines. Heat and aerate the tank for a couple of hour, then place ONLY the discus back into the tank. No cories at this point. They can be a huge distraction in a small tank. I experienced that myself just a month ago during a temporary housing arrangement. My discus were very upset by the constant scurrying of the cories in that small space.

Once the discus are back in the tank, turn off the tank lights and leave a soft light on in the room during the day for them.

Then do a 50%-60% WC every single day for the next 2 weeks and watch for further symptoms. No more meds till you are SURE of what they actually have! You are only stressing them out even more by throwing so many meds at them so quickly when they are still young.

Test the pH of the water in the tank every day prior to the WC. If you find that it is dropping more than .4, up the water change by 10% and test again the next day. Do that until you reach the point that the water isn't shifting beyond that .4 mark in 24 hours.

While you are doing all that testing, do you have room to set up an aging barrel? By aging your water for 24 hours before each WC you can eliminate the pH shifting. Your other option is to add Discus Trace Elements to your water at each change, but that shouldn't be necessary if you just stick to doing a daily water change. Consistency is key!

+1

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[DiscusSteve]

I have taken your advice and the pH has been dropping from about 7.5 to 6.0 over the past week. The water comes out of the tap at 6.0 so I'm hoping it will stay around here from now on. I've noticed that all of my discus have been dashing now. Should I be attributing this to the pH swing that's been happening over the past week? I have not been using any salts or medications this week.

[Scales]

I had problems with my discus when I first started keeping them. My water was fine, no ammonia, nitrites and nitrates were low. I tried adding brighter light and they calmed instantly. Don't know if this could help or not but may be worth experimenting with. Is your water really soft? It should stabilize in 24 hours if ageing. My water comes out of the tap in the high 8 range and settles at 7.4 and stays there faithfully. My tds are usually around 120 ppm.

[Madaboutdiscus]

Aging water is a good idea so that your ph doesnt jump around on the. That can upset them. Im pretty lucky my tap ph is 7.4 and tank ph is 7.2 its so close but I am trying to find an aging barrel myself just nobody around here carries anything halfway decent that would hold water. There is a Brute can at our local Walmart but because it has UK on it the price is double. What kind of filtration do you have? Maybe that has something to do with it. Have you been aging the water?

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[strawberryblonde]

I have taken your advice and the pH has been dropping from about 7.5 to 6.0 over the past week. The water comes out of the tap at 6.0 so I'm hoping it will stay around here from now on. I've noticed that all of my discus have been dashing now. Should I be attributing this to the pH swing that's been happening over the past week? I have not been using any salts or medications this week.

Excellent! Your water is slowly returning to normal and that's exactly what you want... no sudden pH changes, just slow and steady progress.

Can you describe the dashing to me? When does it happen? How often?

[troysdiiscus]

could be the ph swing but I wonder if it is in a high traffic area or the lights are casting shadows?? Just thought I would throw that out there..

[Madaboutdiscus]

Mine dart quite a bit if they get spooked. Thrn they settle. But I find if you sneak back into the room you see them swimming around like nothing happened.

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[strawberryblonde]

Yep, I think it's probably just an adjustment period as a result of Steve working in and around the tank more often now. Most likely nothing to worry about and they'll settle down as they get used to all the attention. LOL

I do think it's good to know when and how often it happens though, just to be safe. =)

[Madaboutdiscus]

Yep, I think it's probably just an adjustment period as a result of Steve working in and around the tank more often now. Most likely nothing to worry about and they'll settle down as they get used to all the attention. LOL

I do think it's good to know when and how often it happens though, just to be safe. =)

Agreed

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[DiscusSteve]

Well I am working quite a bit as of lately so I've probably only been able to spend about 2 hours a day watching them, but I find they usually are only darting now during water changes and one of them sometimes darts at other times. The water change darting is a bit more crazy and my biggest red melon discus ended up knocking off the thermometer, one of the heaters, and splashed part of the wall so it was pretty hectic. He's also just lying on the bottom of the tank now which I don't think is a very good sign (he's still upright, but the bottom of him is touching the bottom of the tank and his fins are moving more slowly than the others. Sometimes he does a bit of a headstand at about a 45 degree angle). The other fish who dart usually just swim very quickly around the tank for a few seconds and for the most part are no longer jumping or bumping into the walls. I change the water at around midnight (I get home from work late usually) so it is being changed when the fish lights are out but my basements lights are on - perhaps that is spooking them? The tank is in a very low traffic area (probably sees one person once every few hours). I don't know about the shadows.. I guess I could be casting them when I'm changing the tank due to the room lighting? I'm not really sure. I certainly haven't noticed any shadows. As for filtration, I only have a HOB filter (AC70) at the moment and no air stones or anything in the tank. I am placing an order for a sponge filter this week though to help aerate the tank. My water is very, very soft (probably similar to RO water) and I unfortunately don't have the space/equipment to aerate it beforehand.

[DiscusSteve]

Also to add another update.. the red melon has been lying flat on the ground for a while so I picked it up and held it through the stream of filter water to get some more oxygen and it's back upright but I'm not sure it'll make it

[nc0gnet0]

Dim the lights in the tank when you do water changes until they get used to your routine. also to smaller yet more frequent water changes, then gradually increase the amount overtime.

[musicmarn1]

Love your advice Toni ! Thoughtful considerate and just dammed good, was holding my breath waiting for the aging barrel bit LOL that's got to help a lot as testing will hopefully prove. Pls post pH results when you test to see what the swing is, hope they get happier soon its very stressful I'm sure


Hi Steve,

I know you've posted before about problems with your discus, so I'm going to jump in and give you my thoughts, ok?

1) There have been too many changes in the tank itself in the last 2 months and that has stressed your discus to the point that they are now showing the effects of it.

2) The tank isn't overcrowded based on the size of the discus, but is overcrowded based on the lack of daily water changes.

At this point, if it was me, I'd start fresh. By that I mean that I would pull ALL the discus and place them in a bucket with a heater and air stone, then drain the tank completely, sterilize it and fill it with 100% fresh tap water.

Don't add any salt or baking soda to the water, just use Prime or Safe to remove chlorine and chloramines. Heat and aerate the tank for a couple of hour, then place ONLY the discus back into the tank. No cories at this point. They can be a huge distraction in a small tank. I experienced that myself just a month ago during a temporary housing arrangement. My discus were very upset by the constant scurrying of the cories in that small space.

Once the discus are back in the tank, turn off the tank lights and leave a soft light on in the room during the day for them.

Then do a 50%-60% WC every single day for the next 2 weeks and watch for further symptoms. No more meds till you are SURE of what they actually have! You are only stressing them out even more by throwing so many meds at them so quickly when they are still young.

Test the pH of the water in the tank every day prior to the WC. If you find that it is dropping more than .4, up the water change by 10% and test again the next day. Do that until you reach the point that the water isn't shifting beyond that .4 mark in 24 hours.

While you are doing all that testing, do you have room to set up an aging barrel? By aging your water for 24 hours before each WC you can eliminate the pH shifting. Your other option is to add Discus Trace Elements to your water at each change, but that shouldn't be necessary if you just stick to doing a daily water change. Consistency is key!

[musicmarn1]

Micro bubbles?

[Madaboutdiscus]

It bout has to be a ph thing. Mine went crazy after a wc after the water had been off a day and no wc that day. It had bubbles all over its body and was lying on its side on the top. It looked like a goner. But shortly after I came in I spooked it accidentally and it took off. The bubbles came off in a large stream and it was fine shortly after.

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[yim11]

Micro bubbles?

No. wrong time of the year.

[DiscusSteve]

Lost the red melon while at work. Should I be reducing the volume of the water changes? They're at 50% daily right now, just water + prime.

[mastermamo]

Steve

Here's my advice which I'm sure will yet again raise a few eyebrows.

1. Do a 20% WC on day 1 using aged water
2. Only add Prime to your aged water container
3. Raise temp to 29 degrees Celcius
4. Do another 20% WC on day 3
5. Then day 5 do a 30-40% WC
6. If u have one Airstone in plz add another to opp side of tank

REMEMBER to use aged water pre-heated. Make sure pH from treated water is as close to tank pH as possible.

IMHO your big daily WC's are making things worse

All other methods failed. I hope u try this.

[nc0gnet0]

1. Do a 20% WC on day 1 using aged water
2. Only add Prime to your aged water container
3. Raise temp to 29 degrees Celcius
4. Do another 20% WC on day 3
5. Then day 5 do a 30-40% WC
6. If u have one Airstone in plz add another to opp side of tank


7. On day 35 begin to treat fish for the bacterial infection they have developed due to innsufficient water changes.
8. On day 70 add them to your tank of stunted fish

[mastermamo]

Let him try this method and then come at me with insults. All other methods are proving useless. Y r u guys this sarcastic?

[nc0gnet0]

Let him try this method and then come at me with insults. All other methods are proving useless. Y r u guys this sarcastic?

Regardless of how it may seem to work short term, long term it is crap advice. Your fish need to adapt to your schedule, not vice versa. If they need a little help along the way that is fine, there are measures you can take, but advising a WC schedule that is insufficient for good growth of juvenile discus will get you sarcasm. In all due respect mastermamo, you have been keeping discus 2-3 months now? And you think you have it all figured out? I have taken countless fish from egg to full adulthood and I am still learning new things everyday. When you do this, or at least something near to this, then perhaps I will take your advise with a little more than the grain of salt it now deserves.

Feel free to browse the contest timelines and see how those that felt a decent water change regimin was not needed.

[strawberryblonde]

Let him try this method and then come at me with insults. All other methods are proving useless. Y r u guys this sarcastic?

You might want to go back and read his previous threads before you jump in and tell him to change direction yet again.

As of yesterday it had been just six days since he posted this thread, and his only problem right now is that he's still making his slow adjustment towards a stable pH AND his discus get spooked easily and go crashing about during water changes. That tells me that what he's doing IS working and isn't useless, it just hasn't had enough time to show full results. Healing discus isn't an overnight thing.

So how about if we don't throw the discus out with the bathwater, ok?


Steve, please continue doing what you're doing. The big thing is to find a way to make them more comfortable during the water changes so that they don't smash into the walls of the tank.

There are a couple of things that come to mind. If you just happen to have a spare tv that you can leave on in the room so that they get used to movement, light and sound, that would be awesome! It doesn't have to be loud, just pick a channel with lots of fast moving type shows. (the tv is what worked for my discus, I left it on for 12 hours per day and within two weeks they no longer did the mad dash)

Another option is to increase the lighting 30 minutes before the water change so that they've had time to anticipate what's going to happen. It might be that they're actually falling asleep by midnight and then getting startled.

I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your red melon, I know he was your big guy. Sometimes when they hit the glass hard enough they die soon afterwards. I had one two years ago who did it and he was my favorite fish.

Please keep up with the 50% water changes each day and we'll just keep working towards finding a way to make them more comfortable with it, ok? They've come a long way in just a week!

[Second Hand Pat]

Toni and Steve, not sure if this will help but with shy wilds I find if I give the discus a place to run to they will. I will start at one end of the tank and work to the middle. The discus will huddle on the opposite end. Then step away from the middle of the tank and approach the tank from the other end. Goal here is to ease the fish to the end you just cleaned without spooking them so bad they crash into things. Once the discus are at the other end then proceed with cleaning the tank from the end and work towards the middle.

When you go to fill the tank do it at the opposite end from where the discus are.

[strawberryblonde]

Oh my gosh, I never even thought to mention doing that Pat...thank you! My tank has a divider at the top, so I have always cleaned the right side first (new and shy discus head to the other end), then I move my siphon over to the other side, which takes a minute to do in order to not break the siphon in the process. That gives my new and/or shy discus time to move to the clean end.

And yup, my discus always go to the right end of the tank during the filling, so I fill from the left side.

[Second Hand Pat]

Definitely something to add to the playbook Toni. This works with horses too, you always give them an out so they do not run over you. Of course if you are applying that amount of pressure on a horse time to rethink your training plan.

[DiscusSteve]

Thanks for the tips so far. Looks like the pH fluctuates somewhere around .2-.5 per water change (Kinda hard to tell what it fluctuates with those testers since the colours are pretty similar). pH stays between 6.5-6 or so. I've brought the temperature from 91-87 over the past 6 days. The discus are currently not eating much, which I guess is to be expected, so I am only feeding twice per day (1 feeding of tetra color bit in the morning, 1 blackworm cube before I leave for work). I have a bit of a feeling all of these guys are going to end up stunted since I've kept changing the water schedule regimes and played with my water chemistry a little too much over the past 4 months or so. Each fish has grown maybe 0.5-1" in that time

[troysdiiscus]

Steve, your ph is not that big of a swing, no worries. Eating more will come once everything kinda settles in, may want to try some frozen blood worms too, may help them eat. At this point dont worry about if they are stunted, get them going again and they will bounce back quickly and hey if not lessons learned, we all have them!!
Take the advise of the ones that know whats going on, you know who they are, and get this worked and move forward. Knowledge is POWER and experience is priceless, take it!!
Good luck I am pulling for ya

[DiscusSteve]

Little update: 10 days into this new water change regimen (50-60%/day with just tap water and prime) my maze leopard and leopard seem to be doing fairly well, but my pigeon snakeskin does not move very much and usually stays in the corner, my turq is eating but not moving too much, and my blue diamond hides behind the heater, doesn't eat, and sometimes darts for a second or two into the wall. I have also noticed in the prefilter sponge that there is this whiteish cottonish stuff. I'm not sure if this is feces or if there are worms that have been dissolving after not being eaten as I haven't really seen my discus poo in quite a while. pH swing is still kicking around 0.5 per day.

[mastermamo]

Steve oh boy

Ok nvm. I don't want to post advice and get kicked for it. My advice is in an earlier thread.

Good luck

[musicmarn1]

Time for a video? Pictures? Something sounds off, you say just prime and tap water, I'm sorry if I missed it, are you doing aged water? And thanks for telling me micro bubbles can't be the issue! Didnt know that. I wonder what the white cottony stuff is? My goodness I feel for you.

[PP_GBR]

Mastermamo

I'd loan you my internet bullet proof vest but I think I still need it here LOL.

[mastermamo]

Mastermamo

I'd loan you my internet bullet proof vest but I think I still need it here LOL.

Hahaha I'm making a Kevlar one as we speak

[DiscusSteve]

Another update: After 14 days of Prime + 50(sometimes 75)% water changes daily I added blue colouring on 3 sides of my tank + white colouring on the bottom (its just poster board) because a discus grower in my town thought my discus may be darting due to insecurities with stuff outside of the tank (the tv, and having a see-through bottom making them feel like they were in deep water). 2 days later and my leopard maze and leopard discus are doing really well. My pigeon snakeskin has started to eat again and my turq has stopped darting although it is still spending a lot of time in the top corner of the tank. My blue diamond, however, is still dark and has one eye slightly swollen. This happened a while ago with one of my leopards and it went away after about a week so I'll see how that goes just keeping up with my water changes. The weird white poo that was in my prefilter sponge has mostly gone and there's usually just a tiny bit left now so I'm hoping that will clear up in the next week or so. I just wanted to thank everyone for their replies as things appear to be on the rise now!

[mastermamo]

Great to hear your fish are doing well.
I'm really glad for you

[DiscusSteve]

6 days later and I'm at a total loss.. my python decided to break and my one that was on order is taking forever to come.. doing about 50-60% WCs daily but I lost 2 discus this weekend (now just have 3 left) and I've seen one of those dart twice in an hour. One of the discus that died had swollen eyes and one of those became massively swollen, but the other discus seemed perfectly fine the night before and when I woke up in the morning the thermometer had been knocked off the tank and the heater had been moved sideways so I assume that it darted like crazy. All my water parameters are still correct so I am now at a complete and total loss of what it could be. The one that has started dashing now was previously doing extremely well, eating frequently, and growing.

[mastermamo]

This is terrible news. U say u r doing daily WC's. are u using aged water? What are u adding to water before adding. Are your tank sides and back covered ie wallpaper? I honestly feel it's something to do with your water

[DiscusSteve]

Sides and back are covered, water is not aged as previously stated I don't have the room/equipment to age water, and I am currently not adding anything but PRIME to my water

[mastermamo]

When u add the water to tank, what temp is it going in at

[DiscusSteve]

the temperature usually doesn't fluctuate more than 2-4 degrees

[nc0gnet0]

This is starting to sound more like a disease then a water issue, where did these come from?

-Rick

[mastermamo]

Can u put them into a QT and see if they react the same. If not then its something in your tank. If they do then it could be some sort of infection I'm guessing. Can't be too sure though as I've never heard of disease that makes discus dart

[DiscusSteve]

I got these discus from a sponsor of this site. The discus come from Forrest in Malaysia. I don't have a bunch of quarantine tanks so I cant really do that. One of the problems could be that the pH changes 0.5 like everyday which could be stressing the discus. My discus have had a few diseases already though, one suffered from a skin ulcer and internal parasites, another had popeye (and died) but all of those problems seem to be gone. I've treated for flukes before but the darting never stopped so I don't think it's flukes. I also have 3 corydoras in the tank and they are happy as can be, so if it is a disease of some sort they aren't getting affected by it. I cleaned the inside of my HOB last night and it was fairly dirty so I'll probably start to clean the inside of it quite a bit more frequently ***I also noticed two fairly long white worm-shaped looking things??? They were maybe 2" long and 1/8" thick. Body structure was very smooth so I don't think they were tapeworms but all of the other worms I can think of wouldn't be that size. Anyway, as of right now I have a 3" leopard hiding behind the filter intake tube (and was previously in the corner at the bottom of the tank) with fins slightly clamped and my other two discus seem relatively happy, no clamped fins, decent coloration, and they are both swimming around/eating.

[DiscusSteve]

Leopard passed away.. 3 fish dead in 5 days. This one darted 3 small circles around half the tank and then died immediately.

[jimg]

give the remaining a 3% salt dip, 7.5 tbls per gal. with airstone in aquarium water in bucket. when it rolls on it's side push it around and make it swim if it don't put it back in the tank asap. usually about 4-5 mins. if it dies it wasn't going to make it anyway. if it shows some improvement repeat in a couple days.

[nc0gnet0]

Before you do anything, can you tell me what medications you have used on the fish and the duration, over the last year?
Have you lost any pigeon bloods?

-Rick

[DiscusSteve]

In the last year I have used PraziPro for about 20 days at the recommended dosage, metro for I believe 14 days (maybe it was 7..?) at 100mg/10gal, and some low dosages of salt/epsom salt as well as having buffered water with salt/epsom salt/baking soda for maybe a month. I have lost a snakeskin pigeon and a checkerboard pigeon (two of my first three to die were pigeons, the other was a red melon).

[JERRYKEVIN]

Sporadic Electrical current in water???

[DiscusSteve]

The discus dart during waterchanges when all electrical equipment is off so i don't think that's it, but how would I test that?

[OC Discus]

WC at midnight may be waking them from their slumber and sending them darting. What about using a timer on the lights so they are on when you are home and off while you are gone? Resetting their biological clock to match yours? Just a thought. Also, small feeding more often, every time you approach the tank. They will quickly get used to you and get excited when you come up.


Well I am working quite a bit as of lately so I've probably only been able to spend about 2 hours a day watching them, but I find they usually are only darting now during water changes and one of them sometimes darts at other times. The water change darting is a bit more crazy and my biggest red melon discus ended up knocking off the thermometer, one of the heaters, and splashed part of the wall so it was pretty hectic. He's also just lying on the bottom of the tank now which I don't think is a very good sign (he's still upright, but the bottom of him is touching the bottom of the tank and his fins are moving more slowly than the others. Sometimes he does a bit of a headstand at about a 45 degree angle). The other fish who dart usually just swim very quickly around the tank for a few seconds and for the most part are no longer jumping or bumping into the walls. I change the water at around midnight (I get home from work late usually) so it is being changed when the fish lights are out but my basements lights are on - perhaps that is spooking them? The tank is in a very low traffic area (probably sees one person once every few hours). I don't know about the shadows.. I guess I could be casting them when I'm changing the tank due to the room lighting? I'm not really sure. I certainly haven't noticed any shadows. As for filtration, I only have a HOB filter (AC70) at the moment and no air stones or anything in the tank. I am placing an order for a sponge filter this week though to help aerate the tank. My water is very, very soft (probably similar to RO water) and I unfortunately don't have the space/equipment to aerate it beforehand.

[OC Discus]

These guys are right about the frequent water changes. You will soon see them showing better color and erect fins. I keep a nightlight next to my tank so the room is never black.


You might want to go back and read his previous threads before you jump in and tell him to change direction yet again.

As of yesterday it had been just six days since he posted this thread, and his only problem right now is that he's still making his slow adjustment towards a stable pH AND his discus get spooked easily and go crashing about during water changes. That tells me that what he's doing IS working and isn't useless, it just hasn't had enough time to show full results. Healing discus isn't an overnight thing.

So how about if we don't throw the discus out with the bathwater, ok?


Steve, please continue doing what you're doing. The big thing is to find a way to make them more comfortable during the water changes so that they don't smash into the walls of the tank.

There are a couple of things that come to mind. If you just happen to have a spare tv that you can leave on in the room so that they get used to movement, light and sound, that would be awesome! It doesn't have to be loud, just pick a channel with lots of fast moving type shows. (the tv is what worked for my discus, I left it on for 12 hours per day and within two weeks they no longer did the mad dash)

Another option is to increase the lighting 30 minutes before the water change so that they've had time to anticipate what's going to happen. It might be that they're actually falling asleep by midnight and then getting startled.

I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your red melon, I know he was your big guy. Sometimes when they hit the glass hard enough they die soon afterwards. I had one two years ago who did it and he was my favorite fish.

Please keep up with the 50% water changes each day and we'll just keep working towards finding a way to make them more comfortable with it, ok? They've come a long way in just a week!

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They learn pretty fast. Vacuum one side first, close the lid, open the other side and they will move while you are dumping the water.


Toni and Steve, not sure if this will help but with shy wilds I find if I give the discus a place to run to they will. I will start at one end of the tank and work to the middle. The discus will huddle on the opposite end. Then step away from the middle of the tank and approach the tank from the other end. Goal here is to ease the fish to the end you just cleaned without spooking them so bad they crash into things. Once the discus are at the other end then proceed with cleaning the tank from the end and work towards the middle.

When you go to fill the tank do it at the opposite end from where the discus are.

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Mine aggressively attach blood worms til they are all gone, while they pic at other foods. May be good to use them exclusively for a few days until they are eating a little 3-5 times per day.


Steve, your ph is not that big of a swing, no worries. Eating more will come once everything kinda settles in, may want to try some frozen blood worms too, may help them eat. At this point dont worry about if they are stunted, get them going again and they will bounce back quickly and hey if not lessons learned, we all have them!!
Take the advise of the ones that know whats going on, you know who they are, and get this worked and move forward. Knowledge is POWER and experience is priceless, take it!!
Good luck I am pulling for ya

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Here is clearly a problem. Your prefilter needs to be rinsed at least weekly, but for now every day or two. May be some nasty stuff in there now. Just spray it clean with a hose. You may want to soak them in dechlorinated water before putting them back in.



Little update: 10 days into this new water change regimen (50-60%/day with just tap water and prime) my maze leopard and leopard seem to be doing fairly well, but my pigeon snakeskin does not move very much and usually stays in the corner, my turq is eating but not moving too much, and my blue diamond hides behind the heater, doesn't eat, and sometimes darts for a second or two into the wall. I have also noticed in the prefilter sponge that there is this whiteish cottonish stuff. I'm not sure if this is feces or if there are worms that have been dissolving after not being eaten as I haven't really seen my discus poo in quite a while. pH swing is still kicking around 0.5 per day.

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How did you get poster board on the bottom? Another stressful event.



Another update: After 14 days of Prime + 50(sometimes 75)% water changes daily I added blue colouring on 3 sides of my tank + white colouring on the bottom (its just poster board) because a discus grower in my town thought my discus may be darting due to insecurities with stuff outside of the tank (the tv, and having a see-through bottom making them feel like they were in deep water). 2 days later and my leopard maze and leopard discus are doing really well. My pigeon snakeskin has started to eat again and my turq has stopped darting although it is still spending a lot of time in the top corner of the tank. My blue diamond, however, is still dark and has one eye slightly swollen. This happened a while ago with one of my leopards and it went away after about a week so I'll see how that goes just keeping up with my water changes. The weird white poo that was in my prefilter sponge has mostly gone and there's usually just a tiny bit left now so I'm hoping that will clear up in the next week or so. I just wanted to thank everyone for their replies as things appear to be on the rise now!

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With my first tank I was like a teenager with acne. We obsess over every detail of the fish and aggravate matters by constantly doing things. In reality, like the administrators here have said, besides clean water, time in a stress free environment is one of the most important things for them to settle and get comfortable. You don't have to treat every minor problem. With good water and low stress most problems will work themselves out. You've got to get the water clean, then create a happy environment- frequent feeding of favorite foods and minimize changes to their setting.


In the last year I have used PraziPro for about 20 days at the recommended dosage, metro for I believe 14 days (maybe it was 7..?) at 100mg/10gal, and some low dosages of salt/epsom salt as well as having buffered water with salt/epsom salt/baking soda for maybe a month. I have lost a snakeskin pigeon and a checkerboard pigeon (two of my first three to die were pigeons, the other was a red melon).