Discus Bobbing, Panting

[ElleisaS]

Hey guys, I got a ~3.5" discus in a 90Gal fairly heavily planted tank that's recently exhibiting the following:

-He is always bobbing up and down (about 5mm and a little faster than one bob per second); as if running on the spot (for a fish)
-He breathes harder than the others, as he is working....
-his side fins are always bouncing back and forth
-often is tilted up ~30deg
-he still shows some interest in food although he doesn't always eat.
-he spends a lot of his time hiding under a branch at the bottom, or under the overflow at the top.
-he exhibits no other visual problems, looks healthy still, isn't skinny or fat...

All 8 other Discus are Fine
My research makes tells me he might be constipated or maybe a swim bladder problem - any thoughts???
So I'm thinking I should epsom salt him???

Feeding normally comprises of:
Small serving of Aqua One Tropical Flakes 3-5 times a day. Frozen bloodworms for dessert at night.

Water Parameters:
Ph: 6.9
Ammonia: 0
NitrIte: 0
NitrAte: 0
Carbonate Hardness: 3
General Hardness: 8dKh (143)


Thanks for any thoughts!

[Madaboutdiscus]

How often are you changing water? Juvie discus should be fed several times per day. What is your water temp? Does sound like possible constipation or swim bladder. Maybe somebody else can chime in here.

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[Madaboutdiscus]

Sorry disregard what I said about feeding I saw you said 3-5 times a day. Anyway hopefully somebody else will come along.

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[ElleisaS]

last water change was about 2 weeks ago, I got it heavily planted and heavily filtered so I don't need to change water much.

ADA substrate.

28degrees C (84deg F)

[Madaboutdiscus]

Doesnt matter whats in it you have to change water. Your others will start to show effects soon. Juvies need to be in a barebottom tank with daily water changes.

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[ElleisaS]

So I've separated the discus in question to a bare-bottom QT tank for treatment

the QT is about 6-7 Gal, and has two aged sponge filters (from my sump)

I've added epsom salt at 3 teaspoons per 10 Gal (recommended)



just a note - when I put him in the QT (before adding epsom) - he is now breathing slowly and softly, lying flat on the bottom and has gone dark

EDIT: He's upright again, must've just been scared..

[Madaboutdiscus]

Ok thats good. All you can do is watch for now I guess. Im hoping someone will see this thread and help you better. I dont know much about diseases in fish. I just know small things that help.

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[John_Nicholson]

last water change was about 2 weeks ago, I got it heavily planted and heavily filtered so I don't need to change water much.

ADA substrate.

28degrees C (84deg F)

Winner, winner, chicken dinner....Start changing lots of water and it will improve, put it into a bare bottom tank until it is an adult and it will thrive.

-john

[Madaboutdiscus]

+1

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[ElleisaS]

I'm going to keep up 60% WC daily (and re-adding epsom based on amount removed) and see how it goes

[musicmarn1]

+1


Winner, winner, chicken dinner....Start changing lots of water and it will improve, put it into a bare bottom tank until it is an adult and it will thrive.

-john

[ElleisaS]

No improvement as yet, he's starting to get quite thin though....

[ElleisaS]

just an update - he has pooped (standard, healthy looking poo - brown, clumped.)

he shows interest in food - but I haven't noticed him actually eating.

Any other thoughts as to what might be wrong with him?

current condition:
skinny, breathing fast, side fins working hard, bobbing, slightly angled up (30 deg), pale in colour, shy. - no visual problems with his gills or skin, his gills aren't inflamed and he uses both evenly.

he lies flat on his side, goes still and breathes really lightly - this is getting more often.

[Madaboutdiscus]

Any pictures? At this point its possible bacterial since you are changing water and stuff. If feces look normal I wouldnt think internal parasites.

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[strawberryblonde]

I'm not sure if this has been said, but if he's pooping now, do a water change and don't add any epsom salt when you refill the tank.

It may be that this went on for too long and that he's not going to be able to recover. At such a small size, once they stop eating they lose ground fast. The best thing you can do is to just remove the epsom salt from the tank and offer food. If he begins eating he might make it, if not, he'll fade fast.

[Madaboutdiscus]

I'm not sure if this has been said, but if he's pooping now, do a water change and don't add any epsom salt when you refill the tank.

It may be that this went on for too long and that he's not going to be able to recover. At such a small size, once they stop eating they lose ground fast. The best thing you can do is to just remove the epsom salt from the tank and offer food. If he begins eating he might make it, if not, he'll fade fast.

+1 im not much help. Just throwing out ideas

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[ElleisaS]

Any pictures? At this point its possible bacterial since you are changing water and stuff. If feces look normal I wouldnt think internal parasites.

Trying Pictures...
Gills appear normal:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q81/1236092_10200840826729013_349102621_n.jpg

Body doesn't show any signs of parasites,infections,rot,etc...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/1239651_10200840827009020_1950026210_n.jpg




I'm not sure if this has been said, but if he's pooping now, do a water change and don't add any epsom salt when you refill the tank...The best thing you can do is to just remove the epsom salt from the tank and offer food. If he begins eating he might make it, if not, he'll fade fast.
Yeah I stopped epsom salt 2 nights back. It's not looking good for him


I'm thinking I'll try for bacterial infections, I'll add some Formalin and raise the temp slowly

[Madaboutdiscus]

Looks a little dark. Im pretty sure formalin is for parasites not bacterial but not 100%

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[ElleisaS]

Looks a little dark. Im pretty sure formalin is for parasites not bacterial but not 100%
Yeah, he'is a tad darker then normal.
whoops yeah your right, hmm... seems like I'm out of bacterial treatments,
I got formalin, methylene blue, metro and a few parasite and worm treatments...

I used to use melafix for bacterial stuff - but I know it's pretty useless - what do you guys recommend?

[Madaboutdiscus]

Isnt metro for bacteria?

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[ElleisaS]

Isnt metro for bacteria?
...googling...

:) nice, it is! EDIT: I originally purchased it only for treating Hex...

I'll see how it goes

[Madaboutdiscus]

Dont think your problem is hex but I dont know. Im no expert.

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[ElleisaS]

so the 4th dose of metro is in, I've been following the recommended 400mg/10Gal with a 20%WC per day. Dose for 5-10 days

He's not looking any skinnier which is good.

he spends 95% of his time lying flat on the bottom, his breathing is REALLY light - can hardly tell if he's alive, occasionally gets up and bobs on the bottom, then falls back down again - as if he's exhausted...

shows no interest in food still, not passing any faeces atm - but probs because he hasn't eaten in a week

[lipadj46]

...googling...

:) nice, it is! EDIT: I originally purchased it only for treating Hex...

I'll see how it goes

It's not an effective fish antibiotic though. For an internal infection you want kanamyacin or in a pinch furan 2. Probably too late though

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[zimmjeff]

It's time to part with him and concentrate on your other fish. Jeff

[Skip]

Agree with jeff