New to Discus, setting up a 90 gallon planted tank

[knockout]

Hello everyone, I am new to Discus, not new in the aquarium hobby, I've been keeping reef tanks for almost 10 years now and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS wanted to plunge into a Discus tank, well the tank is here, will be building a stand for it in the next days and wanted to get as much info as I can from your experiences starting a Discus tank....

I usually cycle my salt water tanks using the shrimp method, should I be doing the same here (my little voice in the brain says yes) what's your opinion

this will also be a planted tank, should I use any type of CO2 injection, is it detrimental to the fish?

[Skip]

stick to bare bottom tank.. until you are confident of your discus keeping skills.. THEN upgrade..

[discuspaul]

As warlock said, the best/ safest approach for newcomers to discus is to go bare-bottom, until you're comfortable with discus traits, behaviors and needs. This should also be undertaken only after you have done the essential research on caring for discus. If you haven't yet done so, please review/read the stickies here in the discus basics section.

If you must start off with a planted tank, it's important that you do so only if you plan on getting adult, or near adult fish of 5" or more from a reputable supplier; plant sparingly to begin with to allow yourself ample tank cleansing space; and avoid the use of any pressurized CO2 until you're well familiar with discus care.
Welcome to SD and best of luck to you.

[strawberryblonde]

Hello everyone, I am new to Discus, not new in the aquarium hobby, I've been keeping reef tanks for almost 10 years now and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS wanted to plunge into a Discus tank, well the tank is here, will be building a stand for it in the next days and wanted to get as much info as I can from your experiences starting a Discus tank....

I usually cycle my salt water tanks using the shrimp method, should I be doing the same here (my little voice in the brain says yes) what's your opinion

this will also be a planted tank, should I use any type of CO2 injection, is it detrimental to the fish?

Welcome to the forums! Hang around and read everything you can, there's a wealth of info in the stickies and threads.

Cycling: Nope, don't use the shrimp method. Buy some pure ammonia (check the label for additives to make sure it's 100% ammonia) and dose the tank to raise the ammonia level to 1-2ppm. No need to do water changes or mess with the tank while it cycles, just check the ammonia level once a day and add more ammonia if needed. When ammonia reaches zero within 24 hours of adding more, you'll start to see nitrites rising. Continue with dosing till nitrites drop to zero and bingo...do a big water change and add fish.

Planted tanks "can" work with discus, but for the first time owner it's a whole lot easier and less stressful if you go with a bare bottom tank till you get the hang of the feedings and water changes. If you are determined to go planted, please do the fish a favor and use low light, easy care plants like Amazon Swords, Anubias, etc. No co2 needed by doing it that way...and you'll thank me later. =)

Also, if you go planted, plan to purchase larger discus rather than trying to grow out a group of juvies. I started off with 4" discus for my first try because they are more forgiving of mistakes and the general learning curve.

[musicmarn1]

i can HONESTLY tell you hand on heart i wanted so so bad to go planted tank with the young Juviniles (wanted young because they are cheaper and i wanted to learn how to raise fish too from youngsters) and i LISTENED to these amazing people, against my deepest desire to use my lovely planted tanks.....i STILL 7 months later have discus in bare bottom , only now am just faintly CONSIDERING adding sand for my next batch of 5" fish :D

but i now know how demanding young Discus can be, it is a learning curve but its so so rewarding, if they are lethargic or not actively mooching around the tank investigating and eating, you have a water problem, imagine how much more difficult that is if it could be too much fertilizer in the water column, or too much nitrate the plants need it but fish hate too much, and really BIG water changes for co2 run tanks are usually a no no ( i did planted tanks first then came into discus i had to forget about plants and what i learned and put the fish first)

better MUCH by far would to use Toni's (you tube link here hopefully soon :angel:) Squishy Pot recipie and put plants that you can MOVE around, like she said, use the swords or easy anubias and low light plants and if they die oh well, its discus first baby right now.

you will learn their moods, their colors, their eating and hiding habits, if they are skittish, mine are now confident around new people coming in and new dogs running past the tank, no suicide missions like i had at first (water quality and badly raised discus when i started with the lfs store bought variety)

i didnt loose any but i sure did loose sleep !! until bullying started, then i lost one, i got a pair and then i used a planted tank for those two, who are happy but im sure they would grow larger in a bare tank (so im moving them right now actually to a bare tank where they can spawn to their hearts content in my hard water im not ready to be an auntie yet)

adding other fish will sometimes out compete young fish for food, they have to be confident, happy secure and young discus in planted tanks are not always that if a piece is missing. there are GREAT threads by honest people saying where they went wrong with their planted experience so read lots of those first :)

lastly, once the fish are 5" plus or starting out with more expensive bigger fish, you can display them and you have now learned more about being able to tell the warning signs.

im only chiming in because i WAS you back in April , but some people might know a lot more about planted tanks than i did to start and they honestly might get it right from the start, only the size and condition of the discus can tell you that when they are done growing. so go to what not to buy and rate my discus here, and then look at discus grown out in planted tanks. it shows a clear story, usually. just because a fish CAN reach 7 inches doesnt mean it has to, but by not reaching that size they do not have the best health either usually.

again this is what i have learned, i might be wrong still on a few of my facts, im just hopefully encouraging you to start with a bare tank, i have been grooming a lovely co2 high tech 90g myself for the DAY that i will put wilds in it, but i have decided and im the most impatient person in the universe i think, to wait until next year, AFTER Pat's class on wilds and after i learn a heck of a lot more about discus.

only saying any of this so you ENJOY the hobby, which sweating about expensive and lovely fish possibly dying or sick , does not add up to enjoying the hobby hahah. if you do go planted because your very good at that area, keep a journal for us please it is so fascinating to watch and see how it all turns out.

[jc5]

For a planted fish tank, I would go for some Anubias. I had them in with discus before and it was great. There's no need for any C02, just regular mid lighting should do. You should start with just a few plants at first to see how it works out for you. With a planted fish tank, you just siphon the top when you clean, if you go to deep you can uproot the plants. Good luck.

[knockout]

thanks for all the replies, all make a lot of sense, will take them all into consideration, keep them coming please!

[farebox]

Listen to all, skip the planted tank for now. I had an high tech planted tank with all the bells and whistles, lush plants, and discus...turn out dumping the plants, selling off all the CO2 stuff, went bare bottom. Discus and me are all happy campers now.

[alexsano]

^ i agree to everyone suggestions

[mastermamo]

Hi

Awesome decision to start a tank with these beautiful majestic fish.
I would, as many others recommended, suggest you go BB or use a very thin layer of natural colored river sand or silica to begin with. In this way your tank looks a little more presentable, you can easily see poo and dirt, and your fish colors will come through strongly.

Proper Filtration is paramount and I personally believe that with the right sort of filtration you will keep WC's to a minimum. Also plz add in a sponge filter or 2 especially if its a grow out tank. They might look unsightly but trust me they prove invaluable to your fishes health.

Being a marine guy u know the rest I'm sure. Keep the tank well aerated, maintain a temp of between 27 and 29 degrees Celcius, add in saline salt once a week to be safe, check pH levels regularly and give them a healthy well balanced diet. All this sorted, you should have beautiful healthy fish.

Please note that it's my personal opinion from experience that salt should be added and some might not agree.

Best of luck to you

M

[inkbull]

i as well rebelled at first i couldnt wrap my head around why i needed to do so many wc or put them in what i looked at at the time to be ugly bb tanks i am now moving full grow discus to planted tanks but thats due to experience ultimately this the knowledge base and decades of experience here won and for good reason I DONT KEEP FISH I KEEP WATER

[strawberryblonde]

No weekly salt! Discus do not need salt. You salt your fish and chips, not your discus.

[mastermamo]

Gee whiz

That's pretty curt

[strawberryblonde]

Gee whiz

That's pretty curt

No, it's just a statement of fact.

Salt isn't necessary or desirable on a day to day basis for discus. It can be therapeutic when treating certain problems in a fish as it helps with osmoregulation, assists in eradicating ich, etc, but isn't needed as a water additive in a healthy tank.

[musicmarn1]

It's different opinions :D but MOST experienced discus keepers HERE, don't use salt at all or very rarely, the ones with large, large healthy even breeding discus say it's not needed. It's true it's better to do less than over medicate right? That way if something goes wrong, you have more effective options because they are not used all the time. Only way to know if you need it is take it out for a couple months and log before and after.

But I don't know, I have never used any but laxative salt, Epsom salts after over feeding, I have read many many posts on salt some do most don't. In my eyes I would want to do less so that when I need it, it's more effective and I'm using the fundamentals, good housekeeping - to get the fish to the best health, not relying on additives.

[Second Hand Pat]

No, it's just a statement of fact.

Salt isn't necessary or desirable on a day to day basis for discus. It can be therapeutic when treating certain problems in a fish as it helps with osmoregulation, assists in eradicating ich, etc, but isn't needed as a water additive in a healthy tank.

Toni is correct, salt shouldn't not be used on a regular basis but to address a specific problem. It is also bad advice to encourage someone new to discus to forego WCs in lieu of filteration. A person new to discus should be doing (IMO) daily WCs until they get a handle to maintaining their new discus. There are way too many threads in the disease section that would not be there if proper WCs were maintained.

[mastermamo]

Toni is correct, salt shouldn't not be used on a regular basis but to address a specific problem. It is also bad advice to encourage someone new to discus to forego WCs in lieu of filteration. A person new to discus should be doing (IMO) daily WCs until they get a handle to maintaining their new discus. There are way too many threads in the disease section that would not be there if proper WCs were maintained.

Hi Pat

I've never ever said that WC's aren't important. I however did say that with adequate filtration and proper media in your filters WC's don't need to be as frequent as ppl say they should be. Maybe I have "miracle" water cos my main tanks WC is 30% weekly and my fish are doing very well. My QT's and holding tanks water (all are BB) is changed daily though. My grow out tanks also get a 40% WC every 2-3 days.

From all I've seen and am still seeing there is no magic formula to keeping discus as it varies from person to person.
But to newcomers, the most important element is ensuring the filters are properly seeded, levels are stable and doing WC's every 2-3 days IMHO until the tank stabilizes.

M

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi M, it does vary from person to person but I would rather encourge members new to discus to maximize their WCs until they get a good handle on caring for their fish and a feel for how their fish are doing. Once a person has maintained their fish well over several months then it is safe from them to experiment with their WCs frequency.

We try to be careful on the advice given to members new to discus keeping and set them up for success and keep them out of the disease section. :)

[knockout]

water changes are not a problem, how much on a 90 gallon/twice a week should I be looking to change 30%? how do you prepare the water for the water changes? sit overnight add necessary additives????

[yim11]

No weekly salt! Discus do not need salt. You salt your fish and chips, not your discus.

+1

[strawberryblonde]

water changes are not a problem, how much on a 90 gallon/twice a week should I be looking to change 30%? how do you prepare the water for the water changes? sit overnight add necessary additives????

How much and how often you change the water will depend on the size of the discus. Here's my general recommendations, and they have worked perfectly for me in raising 3 batches of discus (currently working on batch 4 and will be starting batch 5 tomorrow...whee!)

1) Juvie Discus (under 4") - Change water at least once per day and the amount should be at least 75%, but I prefer twice per day. Feed 5-6 times per day with high protein, high quality discus foods.

2) Sub-Adult Discus (over 4" but less than 2 years old) - Change water once per day and the amount should be at least 75%. Feed 5-6 times per day with the same high quality foods as above.

3) Adult discus (over 7" or more than 2 years old) - Change water no less than twice per week based on your own water tests. Aim to keep nitrates to less than 5ppm and observe the discus for changes in color or behavior, then adjust the frequency of WC's as needed. Feed 2-3 times per day with the same foods, except that you can eliminate any frozen beefheart if you are using it.

I personally don't have to age my water, but I'm just lucky. The best way to determine that is to fill a bucket with tap water, add a heater and air stone and test pH at that point. Then let the bucket sit for 24 hours and test pH again. Test one more time after 48 hours.

If you notice a large pH shift (for me, a shift of more than .2 is what I'd consider to be a real shift) then you'll need to age your water prior to each water change.

[Skip]

water changes are not a problem, how much on a 90 gallon/twice a week should I be looking to change 30%? how do you prepare the water for the water changes? sit overnight add necessary additives????


How much and how often you change the water will depend on the size of the discus. Here's my general recommendations, and they have worked perfectly for me in raising 3 batches of discus (currently working on batch 4 and will be starting batch 5 tomorrow...whee!)

1) Juvie Discus (under 4") - Change water at least once per day and the amount should be at least 75%, but I prefer twice per day. Feed 5-6 times per day with high protein, high quality discus foods.

2) Sub-Adult Discus (over 4" but less than 2 years old) - Change water once per day and the amount should be at least 75%. Feed 5-6 times per day with the same high quality foods as above.

3) Adult discus (over 7" or more than 2 years old) - Change water no less than twice per week based on your own water tests. Aim to keep nitrates to less than 5ppm and observe the discus for changes in color or behavior, then adjust the frequency of WC's as needed. Feed 2-3 times per day with the same foods, except that you can eliminate any frozen beefheart if you are using it.

I personally don't have to age my water, but I'm just lucky. The best way to determine that is to fill a bucket with tap water, add a heater and air stone and test pH at that point. Then let the bucket sit for 24 hours and test pH again. Test one more time after 48 hours.

If you notice a large pH shift (for me, a shift of more than .2 is what I'd consider to be a real shift) then you'll need to age your water prior to each water change.

listen to TONI!! NOBODY here has grown out their fish as large as she has.. AND she has pictures with tape measure to prove it.. alot of people "TALK" about the size of their large fish.. but don't have no tape to prove it.. :)

[knockout]

trust me I am listening!!

[knockout]

how about water flow?

[strawberryblonde]

By water flow do you mean the gph of your filters and/or a sump?

If so, discus like slower moving waters, so I try to stick to no more than a 6x per hour turnover rate. You can go higher than that, but I've found that my discus like the 700gph in my 115g, so I stick with that.

[knockout]

I mean in the tank, I am not a big fan of high turnover thru the sump area, I am probably going with a mag 5 (500gph) to get things started

[Second Hand Pat]

Try it. I have a mag 7 on a 75. It is actually a little to much.

[knockout]

I see Toni is using 700gph on a 115, I figure a mag 5 will do the job on a 90

[Second Hand Pat]

Yup, agreeing with you :D

[strawberryblonde]

Woohoo, we're Pat approved...and that's saying something knockout! =)

[Second Hand Pat]

Woohoo, we're Pat approved...and that's saying something knockout! =)

:angel:

[musicmarn1]

[QUOTE=inkbull; i am now moving full grow discus to planted tanks but thats due to experience ultimately this the knowledge base and decades of experience here won and for good reason I DONT KEEP FISH I KEEP WATER[/QUOTE]

:balloon: hahaha brilliant, I don't keep fish I keep water ! Love it. Scarily true, I'm going through a huge learning curve on my water quality, what's needed to improve it and what isn't. You know how real estate is all location location location? Discus water is all stability, stability, stability.

[inkbull]

i got to credit aussiediy for the quote