Dark and Dreary Discus

[wannafish]

I have a Heckle Discus that I have had since December 2012.
It is dark and not looking good in the body and fins.
Read Questionnaire:

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
I noticed the problem about a month ago. Put the fish in quarantine and treated with metrodizinole and prazi, with two treatments.
Put him back in the community tank and seems to gotten darker with fins deteriorating.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or
tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
The fish just sits idle in the corner. No irradic behavior. The eyes are a liitle cloudy, dark body . No open wounds or colored poop. Hasn’t eaten in
four weeks. Getting thin.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Quarantine with two treatments of metrodizinole and prazi. Thinking about doing a treatment with leveamisole for worms.


Tank/Water
RO and tap water mix

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
60 gallon with sand and driftwood. I have Heckels, five are remaining in the tank. Look fine. About 4 to 5 inches.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
Every week 40% RO and tap water mix. 75% + 25% mix


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tank has been running for about 5 years. Two cannisters and heater. Acrylic tank 48” by 22” by 18”
I have caribsea fine substrate. Only 1/2 ‘” deep at it’s deepest.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Yes I age my water with airation and peat in a 30 gallon can. With heater


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them,
test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __92___ I just lowered my temp to 88

- ph _____ 7.4

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____40

- tds ______ 0 to 2

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____25% aged

- RO water ____75%


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
I added some cories, but the probleme existed before I put them in the tank.


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg557/j7ingphotos/DSC00843_zps9ff1341b.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/j7ingphotos/media/DSC00843_zps9ff1341b.jpg.html)

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg557/j7ingphotos/DSC00842_zps3a3baacb.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/j7ingphotos/media/DSC00842_zps3a3baacb.jpg.html)


Last edited by Second Hand Pat; 05-09-2013 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Added a little Toni/Pat magic

[Gorf]

Do you have a bigger, better lit photo please?

For how long did you treat with metro, what dosing & what method? What symptom were you treating for?

Is that TDS reading in the tank?

What does the fish generally eat?

[wannafish]

Thanks for the response

I treated the metro as a preventive cure all treatment. Usually the fish respond well.
Treated two treatments suggested treatments on the package of General Cure.
Yes. That is the tds of the tank.
They are eating frozen blood worms
Looks like he's getting worse, but has strength to swim well. stays in the bottom corner though.

Pic

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg557/j7ingphotos/DSC00853_zps36e11341.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/j7ingphotos/media/DSC00853_zps36e11341.jpg.html)

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg557/j7ingphotos/DSC00858_zps7a87d2ee.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/j7ingphotos/media/DSC00858_zps7a87d2ee.jpg.html)

[Swancici]

I would take out substrate. And start doing 50% daily.

[Second Hand Pat]

Agree with the daily 50%. This fish is not eating according to the first post? and you already tried metro with raised temp so no sense in trying that again. Does the fish show interest in food?

[nc0gnet0]

has this fish been treated for anything in the past (not counting the recent metro/prazi treatment). If so, with what and for how long? Prognosis isn't good, looks like his immune system has shut down.

[Gorf]

Thanks for the new pic

If possible, it would be great to have a really good, big pic. However the fish does look very ill. The eye is large out of proportion, indicating stunted growth from earlier in it's life or maybe popeye if this is an unusual size. The fins are shredded & part of the tail fin at least is missing. This fish should be in quarantine.

Metronidazole is an anti-biotic, not a general tonic. It should only be used for targeted treatment when you know what is wrong. Metronidazole is not indicated here. Prazi is also not indicated & may have made your fish head stand?

We are dealing with multiple external symptoms & possible internal symptoms. The fish is not eating. We are going to treat, Fin & tail rot, internal & external bacterial infection & possible popeye.

Treat with Seachem Kanaplex by directly adding to the water in quarantine. Kanaplex is an antibiotic that can be absorbed through the skin. It will degrade the bio filter, but not destroy it. Run the QT at your regular temperature, lightly aerate the water. Remove Carbon, Purigen, turn off UV, dim lighting. Use 180mg Kanaplex per 20 litres (5 gals) of water. Mix the dose in a clean glass jar of tank water & slowly add it to the water column over 2-3 minutes. Repeat the dose every 2 days to a maximum of 3 doses (6 days) in total. You may water change just before each dose. Keep a careful watch on the water parameters, particularly Ammonia & Nitrite. Be prepared to add Seachem Stability if necessary.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/KanaPlex.html
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Stability.html

In your main tank, 40ppm Nitrate is too high. Adjust your water changes to keep Nitrates from 10-20ppm or lower (5-10ppm). A tank with 40ppm Nitrates, with several fish & a substrate should have a higher TDS than your reading. It's not a good idea to add fish to a tank that you know has illness.

[nc0gnet0]

If possible, it would be great to have a really good, big pic. However the fish does look very ill. The eye is large out of proportion, indicating stunted growth from earlier in it's life or maybe popeye if this is an unusual size.

It's not in this case a sign of stunting, but rather a sign the fish is wasting away and losing much of it's body mass.


Treat with Seachem Kanaplex by directly adding to the water in quarantine. Kanaplex is an antibiotic that can be absorbed through the skin.

kanaplex is one of the biggest rip-offs on the market. Much better to go with 100% pure kanamycin at a much better price point. Although, at this stage, it is rather iffy if the fish in question kidneys will be able to handle it.

[Second Hand Pat]

If this fish shows no interest in food or unable to target its food if trying it is far better to cull the fish as it is beyond help at this point. Been there, done that.

[nc0gnet0]

If this fish shows no interest in food or unable to target its food if trying it is far better to cull the fish as it is beyond help at this point. Been there, done that.

+1