Bloated Belly

[Trubble]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

About a month ago, we noticed blisters on the fins of our female leopard, so we decided to move her and her mate to a 20 gal quarantine tank, since they were a regularly laying pair. I gave her a salt dip of 2 tsps salt per gal of water for 15 mins once a day for 3 days. Her blisters popped, but she had a spot on her head similar to HITH. I treated the tank with metro for a week, and gave a rest of 3 days. I then treated with Furan 2 for 4 days, per dosing instructions on the package. The lesions left by the popped blisters started to heal, and though I never saw eaither of them eat, the blackworms I put in the tank disappeared regularly. Over the last few days, though she appears to be eating again, the female leopard has not pooped. Her belly is extremely distended. I have dosed 3 times with Epsom Salts. Through all of this, her mate has not shown any symptoms of anything being wrong. I'm hoping someone else can give me some suggestions on other things to try to help her out.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Bloated belly, Headstanding

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

1 Dose 1 TBSP Epsom Salt per 10 gal water. 6 hours later, 1 dose 2 TBSP Epsom Salt per 10 gal water. 24 hours later, 1 dose 2 TBSP Espsom Salt per 10 gal water, after a 50% water change.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

20 gal. tank with 2 fish approx 2 years old each, male is 7-8 inches, female is 6 inches

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

50% every day

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Tank has been running at least 6 months. It is BB.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp - 82 degrees F

- ph - 7.0

- ammonia reading - 0

- nitrite reading - 0

- nitrate reading - 5ppm

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water - No

- municipal water - Yes

- RO water - No


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

No

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r734/mnaramore/leopard01_zpsb0425fd2.jpg

[Skip]

is that fish deformed?!

was it ever round?

it looks really past help..

[rdiscus]

To this stage, no way you can save that fish

[PP_GBR]

T

Is this the fish from this pix?

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?108258-Should-this-be-a-pair

If it's yes, I saw the lump then. PM Master Rick. He might help you save your fish.

Good luck.

[Allwin]

Aah, that's painful. Hope u find some luck..

[Trier20]

I had with a gut like that once. I had enough time to put it in a QT and shoot a 20 video and do a questionnaire. I would say 15 minutes after that it was dead.

[Jos]

There is nothing you can do to safe this fish.
Help it out of missery

[Trubble]

T

Is this the fish from this pix?

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?108258-Should-this-be-a-pair

If it's yes, I saw the lump then. PM Master Rick. He might help you save your fish.

Good luck.

This is the fish in the pic. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?107434-When-it-rains

[Disgirl]

Merrie, the fish probably has a very bad internal bacterial infection. Not constipation. Please put her down.
Barb

[Trubble]

Thank you barb.

[Trubble]

Thanks for all the quick resppnses, everyone.

[Second Hand Pat]

Merry, I agree with Barb on this one. Really sorry. Sounds like you did all you could.
Pat

[Trubble]

Thank you, Pat.

[Tazalanche]

is that fish deformed?!

was it ever round?

it looks really past help..Here is a photo of her in July:
http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r734/mnaramore/First%20Spawn/female1_zps02571010.jpg



Thank you to everyone for their suggestions/recommendations.

For a little clarification, the fins degraded after the blisters popped from the salt dips. However, they had started growing back this week. She had started eating, then got this case of what appeared to be bloat, on top of her other issues. Since Epsom salts were ineffective, we turned to you guys for ideas we could not find by researching on the site. I hate to cull her, but also don't want her to suffer.

Is there anything that we missed in our treatments, or could have done differently if this were to recur on another fish?

Should we consider a round of metro &/or metro flake (1lb of flake on hand & 500g metro powder ETA tomorrow) for all tanks in the house if the initial symptoms show up in another of our discus?

[PP_GBR]

T

I bet you she is full of eggs. Also lower the water level to just above her dorsal fin will help her balance. Some aquarium salt to increase salinity to help with stress.

Please PM Master Rick. Your fish needs more than just metro. Maybe injection. Master Rick will guide you on this. Good luck.

[Allwin]

Hello, it just looks infected and i doubt those are eggs. If it is me, i will just play around with some clean water + epsom salt + 86-88degs untill it says bye bye.

Lower the water to half the tank + enough aeration.


T

I bet you she is full of eggs. Also lower the water level to just above her dorsal fin will help her balance. Some aquarium salt to increase salinity to help with stress.

Please PM Master Rick. Your fish needs more than just metro. Maybe injection. Master Rick will guide you on this. Good luck.

[PP_GBR]

Yes, she's infected and full of eggs.

[Trubble]

PM sent. Thank you.

[nc0gnet0]

In my honest opinion this fish cannot be saved, best thing to do is humanely euthanize the fish. If for some reason you do try another round of treatment, make sure you remove the male, he has already been subjected to more than enough medications, no need to subject him to anymore.



-Rick

[Trubble]

Thank you for your quick response. I'll take care of her when I get home this afternoon.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry Merry :(

[musicmarn1]

Just curious what have you been feeding? I'm so sorry this looks awful! Wonder what master Rick says did you get hold of him. Ouch!

[Tazalanche]

Just curious what have you been feeding?Our standard feeding routine is in this thread:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?107105-Post-Your-favorite-food-feeding-routine-for-your-fish-here

Since being moved to the QT tank, I give them a little of the flake mix in the morning & I believe Merry only gives them a cube of freeze dried blackworms at night. I don't think they've been getting any flake or frozen in the afternoon while in QT.

[Trubble]

Our standard feeding routine is in this thread:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?107105-Post-Your-faflake-food-feeding-routine-for-your-fish-here

Since being moved to the QT tank, I give them a little of the flake mix in the morning & I believe Merry only gives them a cube of freeze dried blackworms at night. I don't think they've been getting any flake or frozen in the afternoon while in QT.
They haven't been getting frozen in the afternoon because they weren't eating it. They have only recently started eating the worms and morning flake, say the last week and a half or so.

[nc0gnet0]

Yes, she's infected and full of eggs.


.......ahhh.......no

[strawberryblonde]

.......ahhh.......no

+1

[yim11]

.......ahhh.......no

+2

[Tazalanche]

.......ahhh.......no+3

We're moving the male today. Since she had improved some the last few days, we're also considering a 90-100% water change, then one more round of Furan-2, at as low of a water level as we can & still have the HOB filter work. At this point, what's another $4-5 in meds for a proven female that was worth a minimum of $100? If she gets worse, we'll just cut our losses & cull her.

If/When she's culled I'll find out if the bloat culprit is food, eggs, worms, parasites or an infection. Because of her illness history over the past month, I'm leaning more towards an infection.

[a volar]

.......ahhh.......no

+4

......................

[Second Hand Pat]

David, an infection would be my guess too. I hope this works and you are Merry are able to save the fish.

[Allwin]

Good luck David, Even if didn't make it worth the try in learning though.

[nc0gnet0]

can someone give me a +5?

:D

I think in a mammal this would be akin to a twisted gut. Very good chance the swelling is mainly methane along with an infection.

[Skip]

can someone give me a +5?



++6

hey.. i called it first! ;)

[jmf3460]

how is this fish doing? I have been keeping up with the thread, did you end up culling or has she pulled through?? im rooting for her to make it.

[Trubble]

We haven't culled her yet. She is still hanging on, and her belly hasn't gotten any larger, though it hasn't gone down either. She is in hher second day of another round of Furan 2.

[nc0gnet0]

Just an FYI, furan -2 is primarily for external infections, it does not penetrate or get absorbed by the fish very well at all. To have any hope (and I don't think there is much) of the fish responding to an anti-biotic, your much better off with kanamycin, or trying an injectable.

[Trubble]

Oh. Ok. Ty

[Chicago Discus]

Ok I will bite,
In my opinion that poor fish should be put down. It looks to me like she has been going through some bad stuff lately. Also IMO what your seeing is a secondary infection from something going on internally. With that said and not being able to see the fish in person its hard to do a proper diagnoses on whats really going on. Bloated belly in your case looks to me like her organs are shutting down. She also looks very thin to me and probably has not been well for a while. I also see a fungal infection on the fins but once again without seeing the fish its hard to really tell. All this bloated, thin, not eating, skin problems, fin issues and clouded eyes is all signs of a secondary infection. There was something going on with the fish that was not caught in time to help her out and all the medication and treatments that were done just weakened the fish more causing a domino affect. Sorry for your loss.........Josie

[Tazalanche]

If/When she's culled I'll find out if the bloat culprit is food, eggs, worms, parasites or an infection. Because of her illness history over the past month, I'm leaning more towards an infection.We lost her this morning. Amateur autopsy completed. The swollen area was bile & pus from an infection.

For clarification, there were no eggs.

Time to sanitize the 2 QT tanks & start them over for the next time there is a fishy crisis, or a pair decides to breed.

[Madaboutdiscus]

So sorry to hear about your loss. At least you know now that you did everything you could for her. Thats my biggest fear with them is that I screwed something up and it was my fault they died. As for the rest keep changing water and cleaning the tank.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry to hear Dave. :(

[timmy82]

I have seen some where ... just trying to find the document with no luck yet but epson salt fed orally can clear and prevent alot of problems. I have done my last couple of batches of BH mix putting in 1 tblspoon per 1kg of dissolved epson salt along with ground pumpkin seeds and haven't had any unexplained losses or issues for a long time.