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450rdawg
10-13-2013, 11:44 PM
Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Let's start with a little background on an issue I had before that was relevant. About 3 months ago, I had an issue with the fish breathing heavy, irritations, a mini cycle, and a Planaria outbreak. I had lots of thick gravel and was over feeding. My ammonia started spiking but not to extreme levels. I placed all the discus in a hospital tank for about 6 weeks and ran a treatment of Furan2. I did large water changes every day and the problems cleared up quickly. I did lose one of my wilds but that sometimes happens. I tore the main tank almost all the way down, removed the gravel and took the filters off the tank. I bought a new Filstar filter when I started it back up. I let the tank cycle for 6 weeks with all of the tetras. I have 5 adult discus that have now been added back to the tank. I added them in phases. First I added 2 discus, 2 weeks later I added 2 more and last Tuesday added the final, my blue diamond. All was well until Friday evening. The BD and some of the others have turned very dark in color. They hang out toward the top of the tank with their head slightly pointed downwardly. I did a 60% water change this evening. They are all eating fine. The BD also has some white looking dots on his side that almost looks like Ich but I'm not convinced that what the problem is because there is no evidence of it on his fins. His tail does look a little rough on the end but I'm hoping that's just from the move to the tank. In fact, I'm hoping all of this is just them being freaked out from the move.They are also twitching their fins A LOT. They look like they are trying to shake their color off it's so bad. Please let me know what you think.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Turning dark, semi-clamped fins at times, white dots on the BD and a couple of them have some scratches on their side. Also, they hang around at the top of the tank with their heads slightly pointed at the ground.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

None

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

150 gallon
5 adult discus, 2 corys, 2 plecos, 3 Australian rainbows, 25ish tetras (neons, glow light, black neons, lemons and black skirts)

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

30% Daily

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

10 weeks this time. Pool filter sand 1.5-2" deep. Quite a few plants.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

yes, 24 hrs, .5 in 24 hours.

8. Parameters and water source;


Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.



- temp __83___

- ph __7.4___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __10-20 (hard to be exact)__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water _100%___

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

3 Australian rainbows and 5 lemon tetras. QT for 2 weeks.

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-13-13032_zpsf1f853cc.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-13-13032_zpsf1f853cc.jpg.html)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-13-13031_zpsae431835.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-13-13031_zpsae431835.jpg.html)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-13-13029_zps8a5fe336.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-13-13029_zps8a5fe336.jpg.html)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-13-13028_zpsfca71c3d.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-13-13028_zpsfca71c3d.jpg.html)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-13-13026_zpsd959bb98.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-13-13026_zpsd959bb98.jpg.html)

Madaboutdiscus
10-14-2013, 12:14 AM
Qt wasnt long enough on the new fish. 6-8 weeks is best. Hopefully they didnt bring in a disease.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

Gorf
10-14-2013, 04:28 AM
What were you using the Furan 2 to treat specifically?

Any white dots on the Tetras?

Are any fish yawning?

You seem to have done a fish-in cycle with the Tetras?

What method are you using to test for Ammonia & Nitrites?

Great pictures - very helpful.

450rdawg
10-14-2013, 11:14 PM
I used the Furan2 to help with the infection. There are no dots on the tetras at all. I don't really know what you mean by "yawning". Yes, I cycled the tank with the tetras and I use the API liquid test kit for ammonia.

No improvement today. Actually, the leopard and the BD have a white spot on their dorsal fins. It looks like a very large spot of Ich. Almost kind of furry in appearance. They are all still eating well but I noticed a couple of them flashing against things this evening. I did 70% water change this evening as well. I only have 2-44 gallon brute trash cans for aging barrels so that's about the max I can change with aged water. I could possibly do a little more and add some tap water but I don't want to stress them out any more than they already are. I do have a question. Could all of these other tank mates be stressing them out as well? I'm about to give up the ghost on this planted tank idea and just stick with bare bottom. Another question, could my drift wood cause any of this? It's spider wood. I do keep this tank pretty clean and just keep scratching my head on what's causing this. I need my strawberryblonde friend to chime in on what she thinks could be the issue. Still no meds, I'm trying the extra water changes for a few days to see if it might clear it up. I've added some updated pictures below from today.


http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-14-13004_zps9f448347.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-14-13004_zps9f448347.jpg.html)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-14-13003_zps2b8cc964.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-14-13003_zps2b8cc964.jpg.html)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-14-13002_zps8a588aa3.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-14-13002_zps8a588aa3.jpg.html)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/hrcarder/10-14-13001_zps0fe92775.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/hrcarder/media/10-14-13001_zps0fe92775.jpg.html)

Notice the write spots on the dorsal fin...

strawberryblonde
10-14-2013, 11:45 PM
The white spot on the dorsal fin is just a bacterial thingy. It goes away on its own with water changes. I didn't see any ich looking spots on the other discus, do you have pics of them?

450rdawg
10-14-2013, 11:53 PM
Thanks for replying. I will take some pics of the others tomorrow and post them. The more I watch them, the more I'm convincing myself that the other tank mates are bothering them. I'm going to have a major job taking them out. Got to do what's best for these folks. After all, they are the reason I got back into this, not tetras.

strawberryblonde
10-14-2013, 11:58 PM
I think you said you have black skirts in there? They can be a real PITA to discus. The rest of them, especially the lemons and neons, should be fine.

Could you have some food stuck somewhere in the tank? Or have you changed something about your water change routine? Maybe your municipality has added more chlorine or chloramine to the water? They mostly look irritated, not sick.

Mine get that way sometimes, and even banging into the driftwood or fighting with each other can produce the white spot you saw. I just add a second dose of Prime or Safe and do a bit larger water change for a few days till they settle down again. =)

450rdawg
10-15-2013, 06:26 AM
I will do my best to get the black skirts out. Those guys are quick. I just witnessed something else this morning. I was watching before I turned the lights on and the larger Plecoptera was trying to attach to every discus he could get his mouth on. I've heard of them doing this before but this is the first time I've had it happen myself.

Chicago Discus
10-15-2013, 07:05 AM
I agree with toni its not Ich and as far as the dark bodies go you have a black background which will make them turn dark and appear ill at times. Remove the black background and they will lighten up ....Josie

Larry Bugg
10-15-2013, 07:22 AM
Hey Josh,
If you want plecos stick with bristlenose.

450rdawg
10-17-2013, 09:16 PM
Well, the only change is that things have not improved at all. They still look very dark and the twitching is getting worse. I've been doing 70% water changes everyday and it just doesn't seem to be helping. The leoperd's eye is now getting cloudy and with all the water changes, I don't see how. Getting really out of heart with this whole thing. Don't know how much more of this crap I can take. I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong...

GeauxDiscus
10-17-2013, 11:06 PM
I'd get the pleco out of there stat. Like the others have said, given the black background, I'd be more concerned with the spots than their color. If the spots are fuzzy or get worse after you remove the discus, I'd try treating with Maracyn and Maracyn II together. If the spots look like grains of sand and start to get worse, treat for ich. Aquarium salt is probably a good idea short term, as long as you don't have cories or other fish that can't tolerate it.

Gorf
10-18-2013, 05:01 AM
Can you post some more water tests please?

Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphates, pH

Test water before ageing
Water after ageing
Tank before water change
Tank after water change

Going back to basics is often useful.

450rdawg
10-18-2013, 06:14 AM
Pleco is out. I've been testing water everyday and nothing has changed with the parameters.

Gorf
10-19-2013, 06:36 AM
So you tested but didn't feel the need to post them, or you haven't tested?

450rdawg
10-21-2013, 09:16 PM
I've actually tested the water a minimum of once per day, up until Friday. I had to go out of town for the weekend and that's why I was getting so stressed about it. My lady took care of the water changes for me in my absence. She's quite wonderful! I get the same results each time I test: ammonia-0, nitrites-0 and with the large changes, my nitrates have came down to 10ish. I moved them all back to the other tank to see if the bare bottom lifestyle would make them better, and it did. They all look 100% better. I still can't figure out what went wrong. I tore the 150 back down, again, and cleaned everything really good. I removed all the plants, driftwood and sand. We'll see how this turns out this time. I just wish I knew what was causing this to happen. The sand did have a bad odor to it when I removed it but I guess it could be the root tabs. I also wonder if it was from some of the decaying leaves on the plants. I think Josie had made mention of this before. Anywho, I removed the black background and painted the bottom and back of the tank light blue. This is my last shot. I guess if I want plants, I'll just have to stick with potted ones.

GeauxDiscus
10-23-2013, 11:30 PM
Man, that was a lot of work. Good job getting through it. There's nothing easy about this hobby for sure...