41 Hours in Transit!

[DonMD]

I sent a box of 22 2-inch discus from Virginia to California on Monday late afternoon, at 5:00 pm. The fish were guaranteed to arrive to the addressee in California by 3:00 pm Tuesday, which would be 6:00 pm my time ~ 25 hours. They actually arrived at 12:30 pm PST today, Wednesday, which I make out to be about 41 hours (it's late, too tired for math!).

I had double bagged the fish 6 to a 10-inch bag (2 bags), and 5 to a bag (2 bags), to make 22 fish in 4 bags. I shipped 1 part clean heated water to 2 parts oxygen, with bag buddies. 5 cups of water in each bag, 4 bags in an insulated new box with one 20-hour heat pack. Fish had been fasted for 36 hours.

Of course the seller was very concerned, as I was, and I was expecting the worst - a box of discus soup!

He called me today to report: 1 fish dead. Several with ammonia burns, a couple with cloudy eyes, but definitely alive. He said the water they were in was cold.

So, the mistake on my end was to hand over the box to my local post office, instead of the larger 24-hour post office in Merrifield (a further 10 minutes from my house) that accepts Express boxes up till 7:00 pm. I think that might have made a difference. I think the box sat at the airport at Dulles for 24 hours.

The question is: what else could I have done to improve the survivability of these fish? -Don

[ktltn04]

May be you should Airport to airport if it is available.

[John_Nicholson]

My wife said contact the fish and get your shipping money back. Also you can file a claim for the dead fish. They are automattically insured for $100 if you did not get extra insurance.

-john

[DonMD]

My wife said contact the fish and get your shipping money back. Also you can file a claim for the dead fish. They are automattically insured for $100 if you did not get extra insurance.

-john

Hi, John,

I did get a full refund, thanks for suggesting it. On the issue of insurance, before I chose USPS as a shipper, I read their web site carefully. No live animals are insurable, at least that's how I read it.

As for airport to airport, it would be much more difficult for me to get out to the airport, so I've discounted that possibility. My local UPS office won't accept live fish. Even though UPS website says they can ship live fish, evidently it's up to the local franchise to decide whether or not to follow this policy. And I can't even find a FedEx agent who will answer my questions about shipping fish! Very frustrating. But I'm hoping that I will be more successful with the USPS.

[sheaspina]

Sounds like you did a pretty sound job actually. If you're looking for improvement though you could go with a pair of 48hr heat packs, one on top & one on bottom. As for the ammonia issue could use fresh prime treated water from the aging barrel & perhaps fewer fish per bag. I've been doing some looking into shipping soon myself. My thought is if you package for 48+ hr & ship 24 this should hopefully be a decent safety buffer for transit goofs.

You're probably more experienced than I in the matter (i've only shipped fish once), but if it were me I think I'd have probably put fewer fish per bag & done two separate shipments if needed. 22 is a decent size order, I would think a buyer would understand the cost/safety factor reasoning for do so.

[MKD]

Thank you for this thread for me to learn. I haven't shipped any but I think do pretty good job. As far as improvement, may be try to tie the bags more so oxygen won't escape fast since you haven't mention it.

««««««««««« please excuse smart phone poster error »»»»»»»»»»

[joanstone]

How about putting pieces of Polyfilter in each bag?

[DonMD]

Sounds like you did a pretty sound job actually. If you're looking for improvement though you could go with a pair of 48hr heat packs, one on top & one on bottom. As for the ammonia issue could use fresh prime treated water from the aging barrel & perhaps fewer fish per bag.

Thanks. I thought about stronger or more heat packs, but always wondered if they wouldn't end up cooking the fish . . . You're probably right about the number of fish per bag, but I know a commercial shipper who ships just that way all the time, so I thought I'd try it. I did use exactly what you suggested, fresh prime treated water. But perhaps some ammonia is unavoidable after so long a time. It is a by-product of their respiration, I think. In any case, I heard from the buyer this morning and it seems that most of the fish are now eating, on their way to recovery!


Thank you for this thread for me to learn. I haven't shipped any but I think do pretty good job. As far as improvement, may be try to tie the bags more so oxygen won't escape fast since you haven't mention it.QUOTE]

I don't think any oxygen escaped, since I didn't hear of any water leakage. My guess is that it's the oxygen that saved those fish.

[QUOTE=joanstone;1047557]How about putting pieces of Polyfilter in each bag?

Never heard of Polyfilter, can you describe it?

Thanks everyone for the comments.

[YSS]

Wow! I am very happy for all parties involved. You must live one clean life, Don. :)

[joanstone]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4335

I've used them for years.

[Cakes]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4335

I've used them for years.

Could you please explain how you use them?

Don, I knew those fish would be okay.:angel: In my experience if packaged correctly it's usually after 48 hours that it gets dicey.

[Fundulopanchax]

Dropping off at a larger post office is a good idea. I ship lots of orchids. If I ship priority from my closest post office the boxes go out at about 1 PM. If they get to the post office later, they go out at 1 PM the next day. The larger post office about 15 minutes further, ships to the central sorting facility at 10 AM, 1 PM and 5 PM so the boxes go out the same day no matter what - I know the sort facility that the boxes go to ships onward until midnight. Your post offices will be happy to tell you these schedules.

I used to ship a lot of fish. In addition to the Polyfilters which I like a lot, I always kept food away from any fish to be shipped for 36 hours or so to make sure there wasn't a lot of waste being produced in the bags. You may have done that but I didn't see it in the post.

Ron

[joanstone]

For fish transport, just cut a piece and throw it in the bag. For regular aquarium use, I use them as a layer in my Aquaclear filters.

[BODYDUB]

May be you should Airport to airport if it is available.
Yup, or overnight it.........

[DonMD]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4335

I've used them for years.

That's very interesting, I'll have to check it out. Thanks

[DonMD]

Wow! I am very happy for all parties involved. You must live one clean life, Don. :)

Yes, Yun, I have indeed led an exemplary life, with no vices of any kind, no faults, and this clean living has often turned things in my favor. HAH! Not!

[Ryan]

This year is the first year I've started having major issues with delays when shipping via USPS. I ship cichlid fry via Priority in the summer months and what used to be guaranteed 3 days sometimes takes up to 6 now. I also had two Express packages (guaranteed next day) take 48 hours. The truth is that the USPS tracking and logistics system is not quite as robust or exact as UPS and FedEx, and so the chances of being able to pinpoint where your shipment is becomes much slimmer. I'd tend to stick with UPS/FedEx for large, rare, or delicate fish, even though those carriers are more expensive.

And yes, you're right -- the USPS live animal policy states that they can be shipped if they're in the proper container, but are not insurable. Even though each package comes with up to $100 worth of insurance, shipping live animals makes that null and void. I watched a man go round and round with a postal clerk about that one day because someone shipped him a box of racer pigeons that died in transit.

[yaouch]

Hi Don, this is Cam, the guy who received those baby discus. I would like to put in my 2 cents if you don't mind. I've shipped lots of freshwater fish, shrimps, and plant all over the US and have pretty good idea of how their policy works.

1. Never ever tell them that's live animal, if they find live animal in the package, ur express will turn into 2 day shipping. They claim that if it's live animals, they ship it in different ways, I.e. more care and not with general container. I always write handle with care, fragile, this side up ect..... I never put live fish or animal on my boxes. That insures it will be 1 day express rather then 2 days.

2. I'm in CA and cut off is 4pm for express. I'm sure there's a cut off time in VA as well.... So if I'm sending express I always make sure I ship them out in the AM.

3. Shipping during Holiday season is always a risk..... They loose more packages in these 2 month season then the whole year combined.

But anyways, just wanna let u know that the babies are doing great, too bad I lost 1 but thanks for the extras to make up. Just wanna put it out there that Don is a very stand up guy and great to work with. Will definitely buy from Don again and most of all his discus are beautiful...... Thanks for everything Don.....


Cheers
Cam