Siphoning gravel/substrate or not syphoning planted tank?

[mmdiscus1]

I have always syphoned my gravel during water changes. Now on plantedtank forum i read people are saying no need to syphon, because those plant remains and stuff are nutrients for plants.

What do do u guys says, whats your stance on this? I know there is no single correct answer, and to each their own, but whats general practice, and is is possible no to syphone in planted tank. (Well maybe just syphoning food remains from discus and no tentire tank, since they need clean water conditions) ,

Thanks.

[Tazalanche]

Discus need it siphoned.
Plants don't.

You might be able to find a happy medium, but the real question would be to ask you which is more important, your discus or your plants?

We keep our plants in only one section of our tank & don't siphon anything trapped in the roots. Everything else gets fully siphoned.

[ericatdallas]

When I had a planted tank, I did a superficial siphon. So I go with a happy medium. I did notice that not being aggressive with it, I had these weird 3-4 inch worms that popped up. It was pretty unsightly... just something to consider.

[dirtyplants]

I have a planted tank up for 30 years, never down, sometimes neglected but plants kept water clean, used up the remains that settled on bottom. If you are looking for an unbalanced (bacteria wise) sterile (clean) type of tank don't do plants. Bare bottoms depend more on water changes and filter bacteria. Wood, plants, emerging plants, roots, substrate, all have bacteria and each type of bacteria is dependent on bacteria's source. A certain type of bacteria that lives on the surface of water, depending on emerging plants for their food, bacteria that survives only on wood, substrate bacteria, bacteria in the roots ... ... ... The more diverse types of bacteria the better for complete break down of organics in the water. I allow for the dead leaves to decay on the bottom, but I have the very front with areas for feeding so old beef heart does not get picked up by the fish. I do occasionally lightly pick up bottom debris during a water change but it is a balance much like nature and that is the purpose of a planted tank to mimic nature as much as possible. It can be a lot of work until the plants become well established. Then you will begin to see the difference in your water quality as the minerals begin to be used up and the water that looks old. I am not saying a planted tank is a bio type copy but its cycle is natural, and interdependent. So a balance must be struck with organic matter and break down, waste of fish, and water quality. With a planted tank it is more complicated but once you get it right totally rewarding. If you are a gardener and like plants then the challenge will be well worth the effort. You must watch your fish carefully though, to ensure the nitrates stay below a certain level. Once you tank has been in business for a long while you give up some of the maintenance to the plants and the bacteria.

[sharkbite]

I have had my tank planted for almost two years. Once the plants became established I have had great stability. I vacuum lightly and my water looks great.

[Frankr409]

My tank bottom is sand, and fairly well planted. There is nothing per se to siphon in mine as I run a blower 30 minutes a day that sends all the fun stuff into the water column and out to the filters. As dirty plants stated, the plants do quite a bit of work.

[dirtyplants]

+1

[Nick Klimkowski]

What i used to do in the past was just syphone around the plant being carful not to get to close to any of the roots, this gave the plants what they needed and the discus what they needed.

-Nick

[mmdiscus1]

Wow guys! I am happier now, so many valuable thoughts and input. Thank you all!!

I am definetely a plant person, and want to keep it that way. My other parallel question about plants is wether i need topsoil beneath substrtate cap? On plantedforum people say my plants wont grow properly in my lowtech as i have only rock substrate, its inert it was suggested.. Ay ideas on this?

[Nick Klimkowski]

Wow guys! I am happier now, so many valuable thoughts and input. Thank you all!!

I am definetely a plant person, and want to keep it that way. My other parallel question about plants is wether i need topsoil beneath substrtate cap? On plantedforum people say my plants wont grow properly in my lowtech as i have only rock substrate, its inert it was suggested.. Ay ideas on this?

i never used topsoil in my planted tank however i could see it working. i would not recomend it with discus, my question is when you do do a gravel cleaning wont it make all the top soil come up from the bottom and pollute the tank.

-Nick

[mmdiscus1]

It is suggested u do light vaccuming, not letting syphon go deep into topsoil..

So you are saying without topsoil, all kind of plants will grow ok? I use liquid micro macro elements weekly, sometimes flourish excel bu it melts my plants, so i wont use it i think..

[Nick Klimkowski]

It is suggested u do light vaccuming, not letting syphon go deep into topsoil..

So you are saying without topsoil, all kind of plants will grow ok? I use liquid micro macro elements weekly, sometimes flourish excel bu it melts my plants, so i wont use it i think..

I have only worked with some of the more hardey, non delicate plants and they all did well in gravel.

[mmdiscus1]

Thanks Nick!

[dirtyplants]

I set all my tanks up like this now:
I place a layer about 1/4 of an inch of soil/peat, this has a very slow breakdown rate and will last years and years. I place sand quartz play sand, better to use volcanic sand because it compresses less, on top of the soil. Then I use MVP - this is a backed clay that does not have sharp edges and is very light, easy to clean.
My large tank is heated from the bottom, helping the roots to grow. As the roots travel through the substrate creating channels the roots pull oxygen into the substrate. The warm water moves upwards toward the surface while the cooler water filters back into the substrate, this creates movement naturally and allows for good bacteria to multiply. I have plants in the substrate and emerging plants along with wood to allow for as much diverse bacteria as possible. My end game is to create the most self sustaining system as possible and have discus.

[dirtyplants]

I set all my tanks up like this now:
I place a layer about 1/4 of an inch of soil/peat, this has a very slow breakdown rate and will last years and years. I place sand quartz play sand, better to use volcanic sand because it compresses less, on top of the soil. Then I use MVP - this is a baked clay that does not have sharp edges and is very light, easy to clean.
My large tank is heated from the bottom, helping the roots to grow. As the roots travel through the substrate creating channels the roots pull oxygen into the substrate. The warm water moves upwards toward the surface while the cooler water filters back into the substrate, this creates movement naturally and allows for good bacteria to multiply. I have plants in the substrate and emerging plants along with wood to allow for as much diverse bacteria as possible. My end game is to create the most self sustaining system as possible and have discus.

[mmdiscus1]

When u say tank heated from the bottom, u have undergravel heaters? Or u just put heaters horizontally near substrate at the bottom of tank - thats how i do it. Can u send link for more info on MVP, what i looks like. I am not in United States and will tryto find here similar..

[dirtyplants]

You can buy wire heaters made for the substrate, or in my case I have the tank over the radiator. Pet stores carry these type of heaters. MVP is the trade name found in the landscape business for sports fields. It is basically just clay baked at high temps. It was difficult to find. It took me weeks to figure out who sells this and how to get it. Rheinders a landscape place carries it in Wisconsin.

[mmdiscus1]

I decided to convert to soil.

I figured it will be better to continue this conversion on plantedtank in a new thread, "Converting 100 gallon planted to Topsoil from garden shop journal" here is the link please visit and share your view (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4806345). Thanks!