Devious-Cuttlefish
12-11-2013, 12:24 AM
Hi,
This is my first post on any forum like this, so I'm hoping for the best. Basically I have a couple of discus that aren't doing the greatest, and it's been going on for long enough that I haven't been able to fix it myself so I need some help. I asked my lfs, but I always end up spending my money without the problem ever going away.
Problem
1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Large Male Discus 5+ inches was eating, but was not gaining weight, and his stomach was steadily sinking in. This started probably 3-4 weeks ago. Nothing of note happened that may have brought on these changes that I can recall.
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
At this point he has significant loss of color as well as being dark for most of the time. I did get him eating again, but it's only very small mouthfuls of food. I observed him pooping today. It was mostly clear with a yellowish tint and a jelly like look to it with a small bit of normal colored stool in the center.
3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
I first tried food soaked in Prazi-pro. They wouldn't touch it so I medicated the tank a couple weeks ago according to the bottle. Dosage was 1 tsp. per 20 gallons of water. I only did the one treatment for 5 days as per the directions on the bottle since the discus were showing a good deal of stress from the medication. During, and after treatment he completely lost all appetite, and it was only until I got live black worms last week that he finally started eating again. The medication doesn't seem to have had any positive effect whatsoever.
Tank/Water
4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
Tank is 180g. 72"long x 27"wide x 21"tall. 9 discus ranging from 3-6" long. 8 apistogrammas of varying species. 10 Cardinals. 8 Ember Tetras. 7 rainbows (don't know exactly what kind) 3 are solid blue with orangish red in their fins. I believe they are some kind of dwarf rainbow, and 4 which are yellow with black lateral lines. None are more than 4 inches long. 1 pair of bolivian rams. 2 Kribs (they were born in my 55, and somehow survived growing up in my 180 from 2 weeks old) 1 sunset dwarf gourami, and 1 honey dwarf gourami. A few otos, 2 small cory's, and 1 huge whisker shrimp as a cleanup crew. When I rescape the tank just about everything is going to be removed except for the apistos, the tetra's, and of course the discus.
5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
10-15% every day with a good gravel skim once a week.
6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tank has been up since July of 2013. It has a layer of 3/4" granite bits on the bottom with black eco-complete on top of that, and black sand capping that. On the ends it's sloped up to about 5-7 inches, and less than 1 in the middle
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
I mix RO with tap water treated by Prime. 50-50 ratio. The ph of the end mix is roundabout 6.7. I condition this with amazon rain, and let it sit in 35g barrels. I always have one full while I'm taking from the other so it ages for a few days.
8. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.
- temp __82___
- ph __6.5___
- ammonia reading __0__
- nitrite reading _0___
- nitrate reading __5-10__
What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- well water _N___
- municipal water __Y_50%_
- RO water __Y_50%_
9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No. Nothing has been added for a good month or so
10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
Not entirely sure how to accomplish this. Might need someone to give me a hand with figuring it out.
The tank is heavily planted, and until recently had been receiving a good bit of flourish liquid ferts. The tank is set up to be peninsula style so as small side is against the wall so that it is viewable from the two large sides. As you can imagine this makes circulation, and lighting somewhat of a chore. Especially given how weak my filtration is. I am planning to move the tank against a wall like normal, and as I mentioned i have plans to increase my filtration to where it's supposed to be. I'm also planning on replacing my substrate with plain white sand, and only keeping a small amount of plants with a large piece of gorgeous driftwood. I have back surgery coming up so I need to decrease upkeep by quite a bit for my wife.
I'll gladly accept any advice/insight, but firsthand experience is worth it's weight in gold to me in this situation.
Secondary problems: Small discus about 3 inches. I got him from a friend a while back, and I believe he was stunted growing up. Small little guy, big eyes, and until recently extremely thin. His appetite has been great until a couple of days ago. I noticed he seemed interested in food, but could never bring himself to take a bite. His belly looks full even though he has eaten anything for a few days. He's also started darkening up a bit, and hiding in some of the plants. I tried an epsom salt dip with him today (1tbs per 10g of water for 20 ish minutes) hoping it may be a case of constipation, or a blockage. He seemed to perk up a bit, but I didn't see any feces and his belly still looks distended. I'm going to try again tomorrow, and the next day to see if a few days of short dips might still be what the doctor ordered. Additionally I have a small female apistogramma that has a very sunken belly even though she eats well, and yesterday I saw she had a long white poo. The consistency did not seem stringy at all, but it was a bit long, and it was completely bone white. Could this possibly be related to my discus problems? What might be the answer for these two problems? Last secondary problem is that I have a cardinal tetra that seems to have developed a growth around his left pectoral fin. It is quite large, semi-opaque, whitish grey, smooth not fuzzy, and it's been there for at least a week, or two. The fish doesn't seem overly affected by it, but still something I don't want in my tank.
Misc Questions: I sometimes see my discus doing some strange things. One is that they will shake their heads from side to side. This is not the shimmying they do when they are courting. It looks like if you held a fish by the tail, and had a hook in their mouth. You pull towards the tail from the right side, and their head bends back that direction. It only happens once, or twice and it's relatively slow. Just like 1 .. 2. Has anyone every seen this, or know anything about it? Another thing they do is flick their pectoral fins very rapidly. The kind of fold up the fin, and then shake it very quickly back, and forth for about 5 or 6 seconds. I can't see anything on the fins when I look closely. Again any clue? I'll leave my questions there for now so I don't write a novel. I'm not sure how to post pics, or vids from my desktop so if someone could let me know how to do that I'll put some pics up.
Thanks for reading, and I'm anxiously awaiting replies!
This is my first post on any forum like this, so I'm hoping for the best. Basically I have a couple of discus that aren't doing the greatest, and it's been going on for long enough that I haven't been able to fix it myself so I need some help. I asked my lfs, but I always end up spending my money without the problem ever going away.
Problem
1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Large Male Discus 5+ inches was eating, but was not gaining weight, and his stomach was steadily sinking in. This started probably 3-4 weeks ago. Nothing of note happened that may have brought on these changes that I can recall.
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
At this point he has significant loss of color as well as being dark for most of the time. I did get him eating again, but it's only very small mouthfuls of food. I observed him pooping today. It was mostly clear with a yellowish tint and a jelly like look to it with a small bit of normal colored stool in the center.
3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
I first tried food soaked in Prazi-pro. They wouldn't touch it so I medicated the tank a couple weeks ago according to the bottle. Dosage was 1 tsp. per 20 gallons of water. I only did the one treatment for 5 days as per the directions on the bottle since the discus were showing a good deal of stress from the medication. During, and after treatment he completely lost all appetite, and it was only until I got live black worms last week that he finally started eating again. The medication doesn't seem to have had any positive effect whatsoever.
Tank/Water
4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
Tank is 180g. 72"long x 27"wide x 21"tall. 9 discus ranging from 3-6" long. 8 apistogrammas of varying species. 10 Cardinals. 8 Ember Tetras. 7 rainbows (don't know exactly what kind) 3 are solid blue with orangish red in their fins. I believe they are some kind of dwarf rainbow, and 4 which are yellow with black lateral lines. None are more than 4 inches long. 1 pair of bolivian rams. 2 Kribs (they were born in my 55, and somehow survived growing up in my 180 from 2 weeks old) 1 sunset dwarf gourami, and 1 honey dwarf gourami. A few otos, 2 small cory's, and 1 huge whisker shrimp as a cleanup crew. When I rescape the tank just about everything is going to be removed except for the apistos, the tetra's, and of course the discus.
5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
10-15% every day with a good gravel skim once a week.
6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tank has been up since July of 2013. It has a layer of 3/4" granite bits on the bottom with black eco-complete on top of that, and black sand capping that. On the ends it's sloped up to about 5-7 inches, and less than 1 in the middle
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
I mix RO with tap water treated by Prime. 50-50 ratio. The ph of the end mix is roundabout 6.7. I condition this with amazon rain, and let it sit in 35g barrels. I always have one full while I'm taking from the other so it ages for a few days.
8. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.
- temp __82___
- ph __6.5___
- ammonia reading __0__
- nitrite reading _0___
- nitrate reading __5-10__
What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- well water _N___
- municipal water __Y_50%_
- RO water __Y_50%_
9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No. Nothing has been added for a good month or so
10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
Not entirely sure how to accomplish this. Might need someone to give me a hand with figuring it out.
The tank is heavily planted, and until recently had been receiving a good bit of flourish liquid ferts. The tank is set up to be peninsula style so as small side is against the wall so that it is viewable from the two large sides. As you can imagine this makes circulation, and lighting somewhat of a chore. Especially given how weak my filtration is. I am planning to move the tank against a wall like normal, and as I mentioned i have plans to increase my filtration to where it's supposed to be. I'm also planning on replacing my substrate with plain white sand, and only keeping a small amount of plants with a large piece of gorgeous driftwood. I have back surgery coming up so I need to decrease upkeep by quite a bit for my wife.
I'll gladly accept any advice/insight, but firsthand experience is worth it's weight in gold to me in this situation.
Secondary problems: Small discus about 3 inches. I got him from a friend a while back, and I believe he was stunted growing up. Small little guy, big eyes, and until recently extremely thin. His appetite has been great until a couple of days ago. I noticed he seemed interested in food, but could never bring himself to take a bite. His belly looks full even though he has eaten anything for a few days. He's also started darkening up a bit, and hiding in some of the plants. I tried an epsom salt dip with him today (1tbs per 10g of water for 20 ish minutes) hoping it may be a case of constipation, or a blockage. He seemed to perk up a bit, but I didn't see any feces and his belly still looks distended. I'm going to try again tomorrow, and the next day to see if a few days of short dips might still be what the doctor ordered. Additionally I have a small female apistogramma that has a very sunken belly even though she eats well, and yesterday I saw she had a long white poo. The consistency did not seem stringy at all, but it was a bit long, and it was completely bone white. Could this possibly be related to my discus problems? What might be the answer for these two problems? Last secondary problem is that I have a cardinal tetra that seems to have developed a growth around his left pectoral fin. It is quite large, semi-opaque, whitish grey, smooth not fuzzy, and it's been there for at least a week, or two. The fish doesn't seem overly affected by it, but still something I don't want in my tank.
Misc Questions: I sometimes see my discus doing some strange things. One is that they will shake their heads from side to side. This is not the shimmying they do when they are courting. It looks like if you held a fish by the tail, and had a hook in their mouth. You pull towards the tail from the right side, and their head bends back that direction. It only happens once, or twice and it's relatively slow. Just like 1 .. 2. Has anyone every seen this, or know anything about it? Another thing they do is flick their pectoral fins very rapidly. The kind of fold up the fin, and then shake it very quickly back, and forth for about 5 or 6 seconds. I can't see anything on the fins when I look closely. Again any clue? I'll leave my questions there for now so I don't write a novel. I'm not sure how to post pics, or vids from my desktop so if someone could let me know how to do that I'll put some pics up.
Thanks for reading, and I'm anxiously awaiting replies!