Nearly dead discus

[LisaT]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?All discus seemed healthy yesterday morning. In the afternoon I noticed that one did not appear to be eating. This problem continued until today when that same discus seemed to be hiding more. When I came home this evening he appeared dead at the bottom of the tank. However when I tried to scoop him out with a net he suddenly shot around the tank. He is currently up and swimming, but feel he may not last the night.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).No symptoms other than not eating and becoming more withdrawn. Prior to yesterday, they were all vigorous eaters. Fins are not clamped. I'm not sure what headstanding is but he seems to have his nose pointed down most of the time.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.He is still in the main tank. I figure that my other fish have already been exposed if this one has had something contagious since yesterday morning. The only thing I've done is raise the temp to 88 and add aquarium salt. I did this today and definitely don't see an improvement.
NOTE: Approximately 5 days ago I ran out of water conditioner and started a new bottle. I didn't realize that I bought the super concentrate formula and definitely put WAY too much in. However, all of the fish have seemed fine until yesterday (the others are still fine). I read an article that said that water conditioner is tested for safety up to a 100x overdose and has found to be safe. Still, this is the only thing I can think of.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
Five discus in a 70gal tank (planned on getting 2 more but now I'm not so sure). I've had them for 3 weeks and they have been eating and growing perfectly. Three to four inches. No other fish in tank.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often). Approx 50% daily for the first 2.5 weeks. THEN, in the past week I noticed that my ph increased a bit over a 24 hour period so I started doing 30% changes every morning plus cleaning fish poo from the bottom of the tank every evening. This is the only change in routine and seems to slight to have caused this problem.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?Bare bottom tank


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
I do not age my water as I have no place to do so.


8. Parameters and water source

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.



- temp 86_____

- ph _7.2 - 7.4____

- ammonia reading _0___

- nitrite reading 0____

- nitrate reading 0____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ___Yes_

- municipal water _no___

- RO water _no___


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently. NO


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them. No pics but he looks exactly the same as he did when healthy. No bloating, etc

Last edited by Second Hand Pat; 05-09-2013 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Added a little Toni/Pat magic



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08-08-2004, 12:09 AM

[OC Discus]

Lisa,

Are you sure the nitrate is 0? That indicates your tank is not cycled. A small ph increase is normal as the water de-gasses and should not be a problem. If smaller water changes are the only change related to the illness, it would probably be good to resume larger water changes. What kind of filtration and aereation do you have in the tank? Do you have any pictures of the setup and the sick fish?

[Allwin]

Are u sure abt the reading? Doesn't looks right with 30% WC. Is his belly looks bloated?


Problem

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often). Approx 50% daily for the first 2.5 weeks. THEN, in the past week I noticed that my ph increased a bit over a 24 hour period so I started doing 30% changes every morning plus cleaning fish poo from the bottom of the tank every evening. This is the only change in routine and seems to slight to have caused this problem.


- ammonia reading _0___

- nitrite reading 0____

- nitrate reading 0____

[LisaT]

Hi, thank you both for your replies. I find it hard to imagine that my tank is not cycled...I spent 5 weeks doing a fishless cycle prior to buying my fish. When it was completed I was raising the ammonia level to 3 daily and had zero ammonia and nitrite within 24 hours, repeatedly. It is possible that there is a very small amount of nitrate, the lighting in my house isn't the best and I checked it late in the day. I was doing 50% water changes up until only a few days ago. I'm going to recheck all of my values and repost, but do you think that the problem could be caused by the overdose of water conditioner that I mentioned? The fish is still alive this morning but I haven't seen him eat. He does not appear bloated at all.

[LisaT]

I retested my water prior to my AM water change and everything is zero. If my tank was not cycled I believe I'd see some ammonia or nitrite. I believe that there is no nitrate because of the daily water changes. Just out of curiosity I checked the water in my 120 gal tank which has housed 7 very large frontosa and 4 other smaller cichlids for approximately 3 years. Although I only do about a 40% water change every other week it has zero ammonia and nitrite (it does have nitrates). My point is, I'm not sure why it would be a surprise that my ammonia and nitrite are zero if I'm doing 30% water changes daily on a 75 gal tank that only contains 5 discus...unless I misunderstood what you were saying. Thanks again for all of your help.

[Allwin]

Looks like ur tank is cycled from the previous post, but my question is how 30% WC took away all the nitrates!. How long the tank is running?

Any new fish or the same hose used between tanks? Pictures can be helpful for more people to jump in and share their experience, good luck..

[LisaT]

The tank has been running for about 3 weeks. I am going to go back to the 50% water changes daily as the fish seemed to tolerate it fine, I only changed my routine because of something I read on one of these forums. This tank was previously used (by me) to house other non-discus fish. I cleaned everything with bleach and re-cycled prior to using for these discus. I'd love to post pics but I can't figure out how. It asks for a URL but the photos are on my desktop. I did it twice before but can't remember how (I believe I did it using Quick Reply)...not sure.

[Allwin]

Just upload to photobucket and copy/paste the link over here.

http://s1272.photobucket.com/?postlogin=true

[Second Hand Pat]

Or use this How to on uploading pictures from your home computer. Please note there are size restrictions.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?108558-How-To-Attaching-Pictures-to-Posts-Using-the-Forum-s-Attachment-Feature

[myofibroblast]

LisaT, have you entertained the possibility that it is due to an anatomic defect rather than an infectious or toxic etiology (maybe swim bladder issue from over-eating, which I've heard discus can be sensitive to given the location of their stomach in relation to their swim bladder). Your water parameters sound reasonable without significant changes, I think the differential needs to be broadened a bit. If other fish seem unaffected, then an infectious or toxic etiology would seem lower on the differential to me. Just learning about discus, but will follow up on your post to learn from your experience!

[OC Discus]

If your tank is cycled, 0 ammonia and nitrite would be normal with 30% water changes. The only thing that will creep up is nitrate. It is also possible your nitrate will be very low "after" a water change with daily 30% water changes. It will usually register something before water changes.


I retested my water prior to my AM water change and everything is zero. If my tank was not cycled I believe I'd see some ammonia or nitrite. I believe that there is no nitrate because of the daily water changes. Just out of curiosity I checked the water in my 120 gal tank which has housed 7 very large frontosa and 4 other smaller cichlids for approximately 3 years. Although I only do about a 40% water change every other week it has zero ammonia and nitrite (it does have nitrates). My point is, I'm not sure why it would be a surprise that my ammonia and nitrite are zero if I'm doing 30% water changes daily on a 75 gal tank that only contains 5 discus...unless I misunderstood what you were saying. Thanks again for all of your help.