Not really fussing but wanted to make a point....

[John_Nicholson]

I have been on Simply since the beginning and I have made some wonderful friends through this site. I have also seen lots of people come and go. I know the vast majority of people who answers questions on here are doing it from the goodness of their hearts but I wish people would answer a little more from their own experience. There are so many discus misconceptions out there already. There is nothing wrong with saying something like "This is what I do, there may be other ways but this works for me". Here is an example....While I change water everyday about once a week I will do a massive water change...probably 98%. So today I checked the temp on one of the growout tanks. I prefer 82 to 84 but this one was 86. I then did the water change and it was 72.5...the fish absolutely fine.....but I see people all of the time saying that you have to match your replacement water to your tank or your fish will get sick.....No they won't. Not if they were healthy to begin with. I understand how these things happen. Somebody will post that you age your water to get a steady ph and to get the temp up. Someone else reads it and matches the water and they have success so they post it, and so on. Before long it has somehow become a requirement that the temps have to match. Trouble is that 90% of the people giving this advise have never done it any other way and so they really have zero first hand experience. Nothing wrong with that but some of you are driving newbes nuts. Now I am not telling anyone to change their water with 40 degree water I am just saying that answering questions from your own experience is so much better than just kicking back out what you read in some other post.....

Another quick story one of my customers was without power for 4 days after the last ice storm. He had 2 tanks of discus. He would run a generator and warm 2 gallons of water on a hot plate. His BD tank got down to 40 degrees and all of the fish survived. The other tank got even cooler and he lost several but not all of his brilliants. Once again not suggesting this to anyone. Just pointing out that healthy discus can take a lot more than you think.

-john

[sdrexler078]

Well said. I agree experience is always better.

[White Worm]

You are right. I try to give advice from personal experience and stay away from things I haven't done myself. There are very few absolutes and discus can adapt to many different approaches. Keeping it simple is my common sense approach to keeping, breeding and healing discus. I've also done a lot of research over the years.

[zimmjeff]

+1 John.

[Bill63SG]

When I was starting out,one of the things Bill Palumbo always said,wwfm,what works for me.I remember I actually e-mailed him becaus I was getting a 1 degree fluctuation when I was doing a wc.Lol,now between laundry,and the kid showering,Im lucky if I get it within 10.

[Allwin]

+1 John!!! Anyways to grant access only to SD authorized people to "Disease & Questionnaire" group? So the comments are more fine tuned and reliable. May or may not possible, but my few cents.

[Keith Perkins]

There's a reason cooler water sometimes induces spawning, it's what their ancestors were use to in the wild. Now I wouldn't suggest pumping in water 20 degrees colder like I accidentally did a week or so ago, but John has a point. My healthy fish that got the cold water treatment are no worse for wear after warming back up.

[Larry Bugg]

I totally agree John, It gets really frustrating reading some of the advice given on here sometimes. I simply don't understand why some of the posters feel like they have to reply at all. It is obvious that they are just repeating something they have heard before. Not something they actually have experience with. Problem is the answer they give may be way out of context to what the problem actually is. Some of these people even say something like ....most experts on SD will say this or that... Obviously not giving answer from their own experience but just repeating. Why not let the people with experience give the answers.

[White Worm]

Don't mean to ruffle feathers but the whole +1 and +2 comments are useless. A Post that just says +3 and nothing else gives no useful advice. When did +1, +2, etc become a worthwhile remark or comment?

[timmy82]

Well written John, always look forward to seeing you post. What you have written has been annoying me for a bit too....... I am no expert and still learning lots too what works for me here can be a bit different from what works there as I'm on the opposite side of the country different climate and environment which everyone reading needs to take into account when reading post. At the end of the day consistency good food and water is the best base to start from. I dump cold water in my pair tanks often and they fine 22c around your 68 - 70 f?
For others reading and new if you want no B/-@lshit advice and the truth read John's comments.

[nc0gnet0]

Don't mean to ruffle feathers but the whole +1 and +2 comments are useless. A Post that just says +3 and nothing else gives no useful advice. When did +1, +2, etc become a worthwhile remark or comment?

+1

(Who is this John guy??)

[SMB2]

I think many responders mean well (as long as they are not completely off the wall). Some of you Pros are tired of answering the same old questions that new posters are to lazy to search out in the files, so the Pros just don't respond. That leaves it up to the "middle men/women" to try and help the OP. Sometimes their answers will be what is said time and time again and perhaps not from a wealth of experience. At least the OP is getting some response and as the discussion heats up (no pun) the Pros usually chime in.
For myself with comparatively little experience, I don't mind repeating off-used responses that I have read time and again from the Pros, because I know if I am off base, John is lurking out there to join the thread and kick my a$$.

[farebox]

Merry Xmas to all, I will always listen to what John has to say, because I have 13 very happy discus based on this forum the last few years into this hobby of keeping discus. K.I.S.S. baby!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[White Worm]

lol


+1

(Who is this John guy??)

[yim11]

+2 (sorry Mike, had to LOL)


(Who is this John guy??)

Isn't he the guy that doesn't believe in wiping down his tanks?

Seriously though, this is a great read:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?103820-The-internet-expert

[White Worm]

lol, left myself open for that.

+2 (sorry Mike, had to LOL)



Isn't he the guy that doesn't believe in wiping down his tanks?

Seriously though, this is a great read:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?103820-The-internet-expert

[John_Nicholson]

Lol good point. Just like everyone else life sometimes gets in the way of playing on the internet. Sometimes its work, sometimes deer hunting, sometimes kids, but theer are times that a question will just sit there. If it is questopn that has been asked a lot and I suspect the poster did not bother to look or think about the issue I will often ignore it.....if I don't new folks tend to call me bad names........

-john


I think many responders mean well (as long as they are not completely off the wall). Some of you Pros are tired of answering the same old questions that new posters are to lazy to search out in the files, so the Pros just don't respond. That leaves it up to the "middle men/women" to try and help the OP. Sometimes their answers will be what is said time and time again and perhaps not from a wealth of experience. At least the OP is getting some response and as the discussion heats up (no pun) the Pros usually chime in.
For myself with comparatively little experience, I don't mind repeating off-used responses that I have read time and again from the Pros, because I know if I am off base, John is lurking out there to join the thread and kick my a$$.

[Second Hand Pat]

Guys, we have rinse and repeat at all levels here...from newbies to more experienced and lots of rinse and repeat at the mod/admin levels which I accept as part of the job. We are here because we want to be here and if we are able to help someone get the right start in the hobby it makes it so worthwhile. Fact is many end up here due to not doing the research due to an impulse buy at a LFS and now the fish are indeed sick.

We try to help those folks but they are ill prepared for the work and knowledge needed to maintain the fish well...but we continue to try. :) Some will make it and others decide discus is not for them which is better for the fish. It is the passion for the hobby and the fish which makes discus keepers special people indeed.

With all the said John does make a good point about "truth" vs personal experience. Perhaps we can all take that to heart when answering posts.

Merry Christmas everyone,
Pat

[Wes]

If it is questopn that has been asked a lot and I suspect the poster did not bother to look or think about the issue I will often ignore it.....if I don't new folks tend to call me bad names........

-john

We wouldn't want that. This is what happens

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/bad_zpse8355da6.png (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/bad_zpse8355da6.png.html)

[John_Nicholson]

lol


We wouldn't want that. This is what happens

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/bad_zpse8355da6.png (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/bad_zpse8355da6.png.html)

[krislewis3]

Merry Xmas to all, I will always listen to what John has to say, because I have 13 very happy discus based on this forum the last few years into this hobby of keeping discus. K.I.S.S. baby!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)


Not to change the subject, but, what strain of discus is pictured in your avatar? He is beautiful!!!

[Wes]

Not to change the subject, but, what strain of discus is pictured in your avatar? He is beautiful!!!
looks like a white butterfly

[Elliots]

John, when I post it is usually from my experience. If not, I say I read it or people on SD say. I rarely post about sick fish because I have only a little experience there. I think that you can change water with much more temp. variation that I do. I limit temp. differences to 5 degrees and since I use tap water I stop every 3-5 minutes to check the temperature because my tap water varies. I also think that Discus are much hardier than they appear. Please remember that most people who post on SD have questions about something or problems with their fish. Also, how many people post on SD and say my fish are good, no problems?

[White Worm]

I will just post links for research.....guidance is already here if you know where to look.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?26819-Disease-Sickness-Article-Index

[zimmjeff]

+1 Pat. HAHA Jeff

[nc0gnet0]

It's really quite simple, no need for experts anymore, the solution to all your discus problems?


Why, add salt of course!

-Rick

disclaimor-This actually very seldom works, and in many cases can actually kill your fish

[OC Discus]

+1. This is full of meaning. It means I agree with everything he just said without restating everything.


I think many responders mean well (as long as they are not completely off the wall). Some of you Pros are tired of answering the same old questions that new posters are to lazy to search out in the files, so the Pros just don't respond. That leaves it up to the "middle men/women" to try and help the OP. Sometimes their answers will be what is said time and time again and perhaps not from a wealth of experience. At least the OP is getting some response and as the discussion heats up (no pun) the Pros usually chime in.
For myself with comparatively little experience, I don't mind repeating off-used responses that I have read time and again from the Pros, because I know if I am off base, John is lurking out there to join the thread and kick my a$$.

[White Worm]

It means nothing because there is nothing to contribute other than "yup, ditto". Is this helpful or does anyone care? People read these forums for advice, different views, support, guidance, help, etc... not for "I agree". Its a waste of space and I bet most skip past it without even noticing who did it. JMO of course. A post full of +1, +2, +3 with no additional input is useless unless we are doing a poll.


+1. This is full of meaning. It means I agree with everything he just said without restating everything.

[dirtyplants]

A pole? Numbers do count when it comes to making a decision, +1 ... .... may not give additional info but does reflect an opinion of agreement. So does ditto... ... it makes for quick affirmation, true nothing earth shattering or revolutionary being added of value but an indicator that someone is reading the post and agrees to a statement but they themselves nothing more of value to say. I can deal with that.

[White Worm]

People can post what they want of course. If you think that +1 is worth the space it takes up and it contributes to the conversation, great. However, you confirmed my opinion in your post. +2 has little to no value.


they themselves nothing more of value to say.

[a volar]

A pole? Numbers do count when it comes to making a decision, +1 ... .... may not give additional info but does reflect an opinion of agreement. So does ditto... ... it makes for quick affirmation, true nothing earth shattering or revolutionary being added of value but an indicator that someone is reading the post and agrees to a statement but they themselves nothing more of value to say. I can deal with that.

+1, Agree, Ditto........ lol

And I really mean it.

[White Worm]

Confirmed, lol.


People can post what they want of course. If you think that +1 is worth the space it takes up and it contributes to the conversation, great. However, you confirmed my opinion in your post. +2 has little to no value.



+1, Agree, Ditto........ lol

And I really mean it.

[OC Discus]

I disagree. +2 means at least two people agree with a statement. Why do you consider that unimportant? Should only people who disagree reply and insult the poster?


People can post what they want of course. If you think that +1 is worth the space it takes up and it contributes to the conversation, great. However, you confirmed my opinion in your post. +2 has little to no value.

[DonMD]

John, just thought I'd say that I highly value your experience, observations and comments. I don't usually comment on threads that I happen to read, but I always read posts that I see you comment on, or initiate. Thanks for your years of discus husbandry, and your outstanding advice and counsel. I have benefited from them. Keep them coming. -Don

[White Worm]

This is going off topic. It's not about agreement, disagreement or insults to the OP. It's about having some intelligible addition to a conversation. I said my peace. Post away.


I disagree. +2 means at least two people agree with a statement. Why do you consider that unimportant? Should only people who disagree reply and insult the poster?

[Skip]

This is going off topic. It's not about agreement, disagreement or insults to the OP. It's about having some intelligible addition to a conversation. I said my peace. Post away.

Its jus an internet thing....

Back on topic.. there is a wealth of knowledge no longer as active as they were 2 years ago..

Its a shame..

[aquadon2222]

+1, +2, +3 etc absolutely has meaning. If you went to a doctor for an ailment and he gave you a diagnosis, and you wanted a second or third opinion and they gave you the exact same diagnosis, wouldn't it give you more confidence that your doctor was probably right?

[SMB2]

But if you were sitting there with the second MD and all he said was "+1", I'm guessing you wouldn't pay the bill.

[White Worm]

Exactly. If I went to a doctor and then a second or third doctor for an "OPINION", I would expect him to have something intelligent to add to the diagnosis or an approach to the cure. Maybe even a "yes, I agree with the first doctor and this is why"....... I wouldn't trust a doctor who just said "yep, what he said". That would be a waste of my time. There is no useful addition to the conversation with "yup". The OP gets nothing real from that response and I think taking away something useful is why we "read" internet forums. I guess it IS better than someone responding with regurgitated information based on no real experience like John mentioned at the beginning of this thread.


+1, +2, +3 etc absolutely has meaning. If you went to a doctor for an ailment and he gave you a diagnosis, and you wanted a second or third opinion and they gave you the exact same diagnosis, wouldn't it give you more confidence that your doctor was probably right?


But if you were sitting there with the second MD and all he said was "+1", I'm guessing you wouldn't pay the bill.

[Skip]

Maybe jus let the +1 thing go.. its ok if old people don't want to use it..

http://cdni.wired.co.uk/620x413/k_n/Like_1.jpg

[dirtyplants]

its ok if old people don't want to use it..
I think it is OK if no one uses it, young, middle aged or old. If it is used, I get the gesture and the form of communication. Are we really turning this conversation into an age debate?

[nc0gnet0]

+1, +2, +3 etc absolutely has meaning. If you went to a doctor for an ailment and he gave you a diagnosis, and you wanted a second or third opinion and they gave you the exact same diagnosis, wouldn't it give you more confidence that your doctor was probably right?

+1

All kidding aside, I think it is perfectly fine and don't get your pet peever with it. Is it overused? Most likely yes. But there are many times when the OP is asking for advice, and several opinions are given, the poster can use it to agree with one particular opinion that he or she is in 100% agreement with. Polls are anonymous, and as such really are quite useless in most instances. I want to see who is agreeing or disagreeing, and what level they have achieved in the hobby.

[Northwoods Discus]

It depends on who gives the +1. If its John it is significant.

[Keith Perkins]

It depends on who gives the +1. If its John it is significant.

+1 :)

Two points. When someone with a lot of experience or moderate amount +1s to a view made by someone with less I think the +1 adds some credibility to the prior expressed view/advice/opinion. I also like it because it saves the future reader time because they quickly know okay, not only does Bill think or do it this way but so does Keith, and a quick +1 tells them all of that.

Granted a +1 from someone with 18 posts probably not so much.

[Tazalanche]

There are often good and bad suggestions when people come here to ask for help. With the number of fish we lost when we first started out, in no way do I consider myself an expert, probably not even a novice, so I only post when I have a "tried & true" suggestion from my personal experience. Although what was "tried & true" for me has been stated as a bad suggestion by some here.

Examples of my "tried & true" suggestions that have been called out in the past:

90 degree heat, salt & no lights, while doing the rest of your routine normally for 15 days to permanently kill off ich.
Smaller daily water changes & adding plants due to high nitrates in the source water.



There are many times that I would like to quote someone, warn the OP that the suggestion is complete BS, could kill their fish & not to listen to it. However, the way that I would state it would probably get me banned. Unless the forum were to set up some kind of a "like/karma" system for posts (aka "UserX likes this post"), the "+1" on the good suggestions is the better way to show which advise could be considered as the majority suggestion... as long as it doesn't turn into a popularity contest.


"a common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
"Never underestimate the end user." - Me

[dirtyplants]

;) We are dealing with assumptions here, if I listened to my LFS of 30 years then I would be in serious trouble with discus.

Rest assured when John says something we all take a second look but John's advice may not be as formidable on certain subjects and John like many of us may have a certain bias that has worked time and time again so to try something new might seem like a waste of time. Remember we need to let John be human, so he can change his mind down the road if he so chooses. Also there are many with little in posts who have been doing this seriously for 40 years or more, so little in posts has no meaning for me. The type of questions asked and the ability to drawl deeply into the subjects is the type of posts I enjoy most. Those are the posts that give credence to this sight. Those are the posts that keeps well experienced people coming back to SD.

[Tazalanche]

I agree.

When I first came here in 2012, I chose to ignore some of the more experienced advice, which resulted in losses of over a dozen sub-par discus, a few quality discus that were with the sub-par discus & countless dithers. That was roughly $1000 to $1500 in stock & wasted medication. Since then I take their recommendations to heart & only make minor changes that better suit my situation (such as the high nitrates in my source water).

[White Worm]

This is what I mean. Never did I say that we shouldn't or couldn't use the +1, +2 but that it should be combined with some additional information that could help, inform or provide some opinion, a different approach or guidance. A thread full of just +1, +2 posts is a good reason to move on to another thread with a little more guts. I have seen an increase of this type of response over the past couple years when you would rarely if ever have seen it back 5-6 years ago. If we were face to face, I would readily accept a nod but this is a forum where we can only communicate through written word.


;) The type of questions asked and the ability to drawl deeply into the subjects is the type of posts I enjoy most. Those are the posts that give credence to this sight. Those are the posts that keeps well experienced people coming back to SD.

[dirtyplants]

+1 :D Sorry could not resist it.

Coree

[Trier20]

Indefinitely agree with this. I have discus in 80 degree tanks. I have also found that the reduced temp(78) had reduced aggression in one pair.