Is bigger better??

[aquadon2222]

It seems like there is a culture that bigger is better. Certainly, vendors get more $ for a bigger fish. But is this natural? Is this what we really want? I find a 5-6" discus to be more beautiful than an 8" domestic fish that has been superbred and raised in a sterile tank with overwatering, hormones, vitamins, and BEEF (how much beef does a Wild Discus eat in the wild? None.).

Personally i think at a certain size, jumbo discus begin to look ugly - much like an oversized WWE wrestler.

Thoughts?

[OC Discus]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think if you are happy with your 5-6" fish you should be happy. Probably the only ones who can grow 8" fish are those with dedicated fish rooms and automated water change systems or who work full time as breeders/sellers of fish.

I also wonder about the life span of the jumbo discus- 8-9" compared to the average discus- 6". Can anyone comment on that?

[Nick Klimkowski]

It seems like there is a culture that bigger is better. Certainly, vendors get more $ for a bigger fish. But is this natural? Is this what we really want? I find a 5-6" discus to be more beautiful than an 8" domestic fish that has been superbred and raised in a sterile tank with overwatering, hormones, vitamins, and BEEF (how much beef does a Wild Discus eat in the wild? None.).

Personally i think at a certain size, jumbo discus begin to look ugly - much like an oversized WWE wrestler.

Thoughts?

It all depends on the person, size while it can be an important factor, quality, origins and the breeder play in my opion an even larger roll.

[Skip]

I also wonder about the life span of the jumbo discus- 8-9" compared to the average discus- 6". Can anyone comment on that?

Yes.. if raised correctly. ..

8" fish will die before 6" fish.. since 8" is older and closer to death

[Skip]

It seems like there is a culture that bigger is better. Certainly, vendors get more $ for a bigger fish. But is this natural? Is this what we really want? I find a 5-6" discus to be more beautiful than an 8" domestic fish that has been superbred and raised in a sterile tank with overwatering, hormones, vitamins, and BEEF (how much beef does a Wild Discus eat in the wild? None.).

Personally i think at a certain size, jumbo discus begin to look ugly - much like an oversized WWE wrestler.

Thoughts?

Have u ever seen an 8" fish in person.. ?

[Trier20]

Yes.. if raised correctly. ..

8" fish will die before 6" fish.. since 8" is older and closer to death

Maybe......

[Skip]

Maybe......

It was facetious

[Trier20]

It was facetious

;)

[trungnguyen]

Size doesn't matter...


Trung.

[nc0gnet0]

But is this natural? Is this what we really want?

Nothing we do can be described as natural. Size is one of the signs that your fish was raised with the utmost of care and good diet, and has lead a healthy life.


I find a 5-6" discus to be more beautiful than an 8" domestic fish that has been superbred and raised in a sterile tank with overwatering, hormones, vitamins, and BEEF (how much beef does a Wild Discus eat in the wild? None.).

Without commenting on what you find as more beautiful, your assumptions about larger fish are way off base. Overwatering? What kind of nonsense is that? Hormones are not used to raise big fish, they are used to prematurly bring out the adult colors in younger fish and most often have the exact opposite effect. As for your BEEF comment, I live in Michigan, so lets say I happen to like bananas. But wait, there aren't any banana trees in Michigan, so, by your defintion, my eating bananas is an unatural occurence (as well as oranges, seafood, and well, crap, almost 50% of everything I eat). Your making assumptions that a fish's natural diet cannot be improved upon, and it has no base in common logic.



Personally i think at a certain size, jumbo discus begin to look ugly - much like an oversized WWE wrestler.

To each their own, but personally I find people that most often make statements like this are just trying to justify there sub-par fish as being ideal.


Welcome to Simply

-Rick

[dirtyplants]

I do beleive that fish will eat just about anything they thought might be eatable including that which is not. Much like us. Is it their natural diet no, but nothing we really feed could be considered natural diet. So tank raised fish will have different diets based on what we have available. My 61/2 inchers are very pretty and my one 8 incher looks huge, I have no problems with either as long as they are healthy.

[OC Discus]

8" is not necessarily older if the 6" is fully grown at 6"


Yes.. if raised correctly. ..

8" fish will die before 6" fish.. since 8" is older and closer to death

[aquadon2222]

Without commenting on what you find as more beautiful, your assumptions about larger fish are way off base. Overwatering? What kind of nonsense is that? Hormones are not used to raise big fish, they are used to prematurly bring out the adult colors in younger fish and most often have the exact opposite effect. As for your BEEF comment, I live in Michigan, so lets say I happen to like bananas. But wait, there aren't any banana trees in Michigan, so, by your defintion, my eating bananas is an unatural occurence (as well as oranges, seafood, and well, crap, almost 50% of everything I eat). Your making assumptions that a fish's natural diet cannot be improved upon, and it has no base in common logic.


To each their own, but personally I find people that most often make statements like this are just trying to justify there sub-par fish as being ideal.

Welcome to Simply


-Rick

The human species has eaten bananas for thousands of years...oranges, seafood etc, too. However, discus haven't evolved eating beef until we started domesticating them maybe 50 years ago, primarily to get them bigger.

I just got my 4-5" fish a few months ago and I don't consider them sub-par! Who knows how big they'll get. But I guess it's safe to say that you like the big guys...fair enough!

[Skip]

I don't know why I let myself get suckered into topics by "internet experts"..
Rick.. lets get out while we can...
Smh

[Trier20]

It seems like there is a culture that bigger is better. Certainly, vendors get more $ for a bigger fish. But is this natural? Is this what we really want? I find a 5-6" discus to be more beautiful than an 8" domestic fish that has been superbred and raised in a sterile tank with overwatering, hormones, vitamins, and BEEF (how much beef does a Wild Discus eat in the wild? None.).

Personally i think at a certain size, jumbo discus begin to look ugly - much like an oversized WWE wrestler.

Thoughts?

My thought is you probably shouldn't grow your discus more than 5-6" if that what you prefer

[John_Nicholson]

They were not fed that to make them bigger....they were trying to find anything that they would eat. Also wilds will grow to the same size as domestics. We have not really increased their size. We have improved their care. I see what you are trying to say but your do not know your dsicus history or facts.

-john


The human species has eaten bananas for thousands of years...oranges, seafood etc, too. However, discus haven't evolved eating beef until we started domesticating them maybe 50 years ago, primarily to get them bigger.

I just got my 4-5" fish a few months ago and I don't consider them sub-par! Who knows how big they'll get. But I guess it's safe to say that you like the big guys...fair enough!

[Tazalanche]

About every 3-6 months someone will start a new thread about each of the following:
"over watering" fish (aka too many water changes must be a bad idea)
domestic discus need lots of buffers & chemicals to get a low pH (so consistent pH over X must be a bad idea)
discus not eating beef heart in the wild (so it must be a bad idea)

Then the thread goes on for pages of everybody stating what works for them for X years, comments get made about using the search feature to read the countless identical threads from before, mean things get said, feelings get hurt, some get discouraged, some quit, some get banned, etc., etc., etc...


Long story short, beef heart is extremely lean and inexpensive. It is one protein option has been proven to work for discus for what, 50+ years? Ultimately, the discus keeper can use proven knowledge here and watch their discus thrive or ignore it and watch their discus suffer.

[ericatdallas]

I find a 5-6" discus to be more beautiful than an 8" domestic fish that has been superbred and raised in a sterile tank with overwatering, hormones, vitamins, and BEEF (how much beef does a Wild Discus eat in the wild? None.).


I honestly can not tell if a discus is 'overwatered' by looking at them. I can tell if they're 'underwatered' though. I also can't tell the difference between a BEEF fed one and one that's properly fed.


The human species has eaten bananas for thousands of years...oranges, seafood etc, too. However, discus haven't evolved eating beef until we started domesticating them maybe 50 years ago, primarily to get them bigger.


50 years roughly equates to 40-50 generations. In human terms, that's like a thousand years. Also, since we're selectively breeding, the genetic changes are accelerated. Humans also didn't slowly evolve the ability to digest these foods. The processes required evolved which allowed humans to adapt to new environments. For instance, the ability to process cellulose does not exist in humans. However, other animals can digest cellulose. This allows other animals to eat certain types of plants, but not SPECIFIC type of plants, barring some other evolution reason that makes the plant indigestible. Just like we can process proteins seafood, animals in the sea can process land animals because the same basic components for survival exists in both.

Using an analogy, a bolt for a boat given the same specifications is going to work in a car.


About every 3-6 months someone will start a new thread about each of the following:


Yeah, I actually double-checked the date of this thread to make sure someone didn't resurrect a zombie.

[Rudustin]

This is my friendly and beautiful Jumbo Blue Pigeon. He is about eight and half to nine inches depending upon where you measure him from. He is a gentle and beautiful fish along with some of his tank mates that are all almost as big as he is! Determine yourself as to wether or not you find them attractive.http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/Rudustin/get-attachmentaspx_zpse7e21b28.jpg[/URL[URL=http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Rudustin/media/get-attachmentaspx_zpsf5c5d41d.jpg.html]http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/Rudustin/get-attachmentaspx_zpsf5c5d41d.jpg[/URL[URL=http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Rudustin/media/get-attachmentaspx_zps939466f4.jpeg.html]http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/Rudustin/get-attachmentaspx_zps939466f4.jpeg[/URL[URL=http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Rudustin/media/get-attachmentaspx_zps23ac5a45.jpg.html]http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/Rudustin/get-attachmentaspx_zps23ac5a45.jpg[/URL[URL=http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Rudustin/media/get-attachmentaspx_zps5c18c7e7.jpg.html]http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/Rudustin/get-attachmentaspx_zps5c18c7e7.jpg[/URL[URL=http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Rudustin/media/get-attachmentaspx_zps9175d217.jpg.html]http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/Rudustin/get-attachmentaspx_zps9175d217.jpg (http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Rudustin/media/get-attachmentaspx_zpse7e21b28.jpg.html)

[Tazalanche]

Every one of those discus look terrible Rufus. You better send them to me and start over. ;) :angel:

[Wes]

! Determine yourself as to wether or not you find them attractive.

That's some nice looking tail.

[OC Discus]

Rufus, don't send them to David. Send them to me.

Round is nice- Round is the concept of "Discus"- the basis of the name.

[White Worm]

After 3 months in the discus hobby and joining a Discus forum, you too can be a discus expert on facts, history and diet. :crazy:


They were not fed that to make them bigger....they were trying to find anything that they would eat. Also wilds will grow to the same size as domestics. We have not really increased their size. We have improved their care. I see what you are trying to say but your do not know your dsicus history or facts.

-john

[Rudustin]

LOL! Thanks. I know they are ugly but I think I'll keep them for a while! Rufus
Every one of those discus look terrible Rufus. You better send them to me and start over. ;) :angel:

[Rudustin]

Rufus, don't send them to David. Send them to me.

Round is nice- Round is the concept of "Discus"- the basis of the name. LOL! I know that David got to it first but I'm keeping them despite their terrible shape and the fact that they are so ugly big!!! Ha!! Rufus

[Wes]

After 3 months in the discus hobby and joining a Discus forum, you too can be a discus expert on facts, history and diet.

Mike, sounds like a good title for a Discus self help book.............................................. .................................................. ..............................After 3 months in the discus hobby and joining a Discus forum, you too can be a discus expert on facts, history and diet

[White Worm]

Wes,
Someone tried that a couple years back. They were selling an electronic booklet about discus care on Aquabid. I can't believe some of the advice I have heard lately. Granted, everyone has their way of doing things and we have to learn what works for our individual situations through personal experience and trial and error but I put a lot of stock in the basics that the experts have used for years.


Mike, sounds like a good title for a Discus self help book.............................................. .................................................. ..............................After 3 months in the discus hobby and joining a Discus forum, you too can be a discus expert on facts, history and diet

[Rudustin]

I find it odd that Aquadon has not responded in anyway to this thread. Aquadon where are you? You started this thread. Have you left the debate about "Is Bigger Better?"

[Elliots]

If you do not like the color and other aspects of 8" Domestic Discus because of how they were raised buy Wilds!! I have not yet personally seen an 8" Discus but I do not doubt they exist. Anyone near NYC have 8" Discus? I would love to travel to see them.

[Cichlidcraze]

Rudustin - the only thing wrong with those fish is that they are not swimming around in my tank. Lol. I think they are beautiful!

[Rudustin]

Hey Cichlidcraze, Thank you so much. I think they are too but of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Much appreciated. Best Regards. Rufus

[Rudustin]

I also really like your saying at the bottom of your post.

[OC Discus]

We should not kid ourselves. Bigger is better. They look better, they are shaped better, and they are more healthy. If only we were all set up with time, money and equipment to grow them big, or could afford to buy them big.

That doesn't mean average is no good. Just because a person can't raise jumbo fish doesn't mean he should leave the hobby any more than a person who can't afford a Cadillac should stop driving a car. Raising and keeping average fish is a joy for the person raising them.

Basic respect is something needed on both sides of the argument and across the forum.

[ericatdallas]

You know, there are also different things to appreciate. There's something majestic about any fish that is large. I mean, I even considered growing out an Oscar and throwing it in a 90G. It doesn't just apply to Discus... a healthy large fish is something people in the hobby appreciate.

[William Palumbo]

First off, not EVERY Discus can genetically get big, no matter how much wc's and feeding it gets. "Average" is just that Does not mean they fell short of their potential. I seen many huge Discus in the late 80's, and early 90's...all were phonomenal. Not sure where the big size=bad shape/proportions remarks come from.. I like "Jumbo" Discus, but being in the hobby long enough, I know they all don't get to be jumbo...and I am OK with that...Bill

[nc0gnet0]

First off, not EVERY Discus can genetically get big, no matter how much wc's and feeding it gets. "Average" is just that Does not mean they fell short of their potential. I seen many huge Discus in the late 80's, and early 90's...all were phonomenal. Not sure where the big size=bad shape/proportions remarks come from.. I like "Jumbo" Discus, but being in the hobby long enough, I know they all don't get to be jumbo...and I am OK with that...Bill

I was ok with the OP first part of his rant, but he took things to far in his incorrect assumptions:


I find a 5-6" discus to be more beautiful than an 8" domestic fish

If he would have left it at that all would be fine. And your correct Bill, not all fish have it in them to reach 8" ptotential (although 5" only is a tad small, 6" is just fine in my book).




that has been superbred and raised in a sterile tank with overwatering, hormones, vitamins, and BEEF (how much beef does a Wild Discus eat in the wild? None.).

This is where the OP went astray and needed to be corrected.

[William Palumbo]

Don't overwater your Discus Rick!...LOL...Bill

[Skip]

The post that got me.. was comparing lifespan of 8" vs 6,..
what?!?!

But overwatering was funny

[OC Discus]

Skip,

The purpose of that question, and it was a question, was to determine if there is a point where jumbo size shortens life span. Obesity is considered a killer in people. Is there a correlation in fish?

I think the poster set himself up for the sarcasm. I was just asking a question. 8" is probably short of obesity. What about 10"? Has anyone ever started a thread on "obese discus" with pictures? Most of us will not have that problem, but some probably do.

Maybe a better question would be, how does life span of jumbo discus compare to lifespan of average discus?


The post that got me.. was comparing lifespan of 8" vs 6,..
what?!?!

But overwatering was funny

[dirtyplants]

Perhaps overwater was a poor statement/phrase, but I bought some fry from Kozy, I gave half of them to my dear friend who has been into discus for over 40 years. He does water changes every week or two weeks. That is it, I on the other hand have been doing water changes everyday, at 60%, trying to get these little guys to grow. All in all comparing the size between the two batches all fry grew at the same rate. My food has been of better quality, and they are feed 6 times a day.
My Kenny fish explode in size in the same grow tank. So size may have a lot to do with genetics and lineage first. I have an 8 incher in my planted tank and it seems to be still growing no special care for it. It is a picky eater and hates brine shrimp. Go figure!

[Wes]

Skip,

The purpose of that question, and it was a question, was to determine if there is a point where jumbo size shortens life span. Obesity is considered a killer in people. Is there a correlation in fish?

I think the poster set himself up for the sarcasm. I was just asking a question. 8" is probably short of obesity. What about 10"?

Wouldn,t a 8 inch fish have the same correlation as a persons height. So do pro basketball players have shorter life spans?

Now this guy is a different story. LOL
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/ipuffer_zps2bb689f0.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/ipuffer_zps2bb689f0.jpg.html)

[dirtyplants]

Again regardless of size and the care being equal, genetics and linage may play a more important roll regarding longevity. Perhaps wilds genetic make up will play more of a part in longevity for strains then size or the potential size?

[BODYDUB]

Wow..... :juggle:

[dirtyplants]

I love it when people contradict themselves and try to correct their post..... ????????

[OC Discus]

Good observation. I wonder if anyone has experience to share? I assume those who invest in jumbo discus taper the feeding and provide conditions to keep them in optimum health for an above average life span.


Wouldn,t a 8 inch fish have the same correlation as a persons height. So do pro basketball players have shorter life spans?

Now this guy is a different story. LOL
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/ipuffer_zps2bb689f0.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/ipuffer_zps2bb689f0.jpg.html)

[OC Discus]

I hate it when people don't have anything constructive to add, so that add something destructive.


Wow..... :juggle:

[Cichlidcraze]

I also really like your saying at the bottom of your post.

Thanks Rufus.
Cass

[Rudustin]

Thanks Rufus.
Cass Your welcome Cass. I really think that quote is true! I have several animals and they are like the children I never had. Two Macaws as in my avatar, two cats and twenty seven discus! I treat them better than myself sometimes. LOL! Rufus

[Cichlidcraze]

Rufus. My personal belief is that the animals we keep have no choice in the environment to which they are exposed. Its all up to us as their owners to arm ourselves with as much knowledge as possible, to allow us to provide them with the best care we can, to ensure they live the happiest, healthiest lives possible. (and grow to their full size potential)

ps. I really wanted to get a Hans Macaw but my wife said no. Told me i had to choose between fish or bird.

Cass

[Rudustin]

Rufus. My personal belief is that the animals we keep have no choice in the environment to which they are exposed. Its all up to us as their owners to arm ourselves with as much knowledge as possible, to allow us to provide them with the best care we can, to ensure they live the happiest, healthiest lives possible. (and grow to their full size potential)

ps. I really wanted to get a Hans Macaw but my wife said no. Told me i had to choose between fish or bird.

Cass
Cass, I agree with you completely! As to your wife…we all know when the wife says "no" she means NO! LOL! My pets are/ have been my salvation and my joy many times over and I feel lucky to have them. Take care and a Hahn's Macaw is very easy to keep. Imagine a Hyacinth and a Green wing in an apartment! I have very patient neighbors. Rufus

[Cichlidcraze]

Rufus, if the wife aint happy, then nobodys happy. Lol. Your neighbors are not just patient. They are saintly. Birds can be really LOUD!

Cass

[Rudustin]

Rufus, if the wife aint happy, then nobodys happy. Lol. Your neighbors are not just patient. They are saintly. Birds can be really LOUD!

Cass Cass, Yes, there are! I'm lucky. They have lived here for twenty seven years. The neighbors have come and gone but my next door neighbor uses them as her alarm clock to get up in time for work! LOL! Rufus

[Cichlidcraze]

Rufus, ROFL. Now thats funny.
Cass

[aquadon2222]

I don't know why I let myself get suckered into topics by "internet experts"..
Rick.. lets get out while we can...
Smh

I never purported to be a discus expert, it's just a matter of opinion. Virtually every animal that has been domestically bred is almost invariably raised to be bigger than it's natural counterparts - bass, chickens, turkey, cattle etc etc, and I'm merely asking if discus hobbyists think that bigger is always better, that's all.

[White Worm]

Shape is more important than size. Discus should be round. As they reach 9", they seem to stretch nose to tail a little.

[aquadon2222]

Perhaps overwater was a poor statement/phrase, but I bought some fry from Kozy, I gave half of them to my dear friend who has been into discus for over 40 years. He does water changes every week or two weeks. That is it, I on the other hand have been doing water changes everyday, at 60%, trying to get these little guys to grow. All in all comparing the size between the two batches all fry grew at the same rate. My food has been of better quality, and they are feed 6 times a day.
My Kenny fish explode in size in the same grow tank. So size may have a lot to do with genetics and lineage first. I have an 8 incher in my planted tank and it seems to be still growing no special care for it. It is a picky eater and hates brine shrimp. Go figure!

Yes, I admit "overwatering" was a poor choice of words...I was really referring to overfeeding, although I have read that fish secret growth regulating hormones to adapt to the size of their environment (tank). The theory is that when water is changed too frequently that the hormones are removed and the fish grow bigger than they should for the size of their tank. I don't know whether or not this is true.

[aquadon2222]

Beautiful fish Rudus!

[DiscusAB]

90% of woman say bigger is better.

[aquadon2222]

After 3 months in the discus hobby and joining a Discus forum, you too can be a discus expert on facts, history and diet. :crazy:

The concept of domesticating and selectively breeding animals ( and fish), and increasing their size is not a novel concept, worm.

[OC Discus]

Don,

Anyone who sets up a 300g discus tank deserves a place on sd. Saying 8" fish are ugly is like slapping someone's mother, because we are all trying to grow them as big and round as we can. The most active members on sd are breeders who have invested thousands of dollars in the hobby and are pursuing the perfect size, shape, and color fish. Like all our trophies: We don't mount our smallest bass or the smallest buck. We are hunting and fishing for the biggest one.

I hope everyone will get past this post and give Don a warm welcome to the site.

Don, are your new fish from Kenny? Start a new thread with some pictures.

[aquadon2222]

We should not kid ourselves. Bigger is better. They look better, they are shaped better, and they are more healthy. If only we were all set up with time, money and equipment to grow them big, or could afford to buy them big.

That doesn't mean average is no good. Just because a person can't raise jumbo fish doesn't mean he should leave the hobby any more than a person who can't afford a Cadillac should stop driving a car. Raising and keeping average fish is a joy for the person raising them.

Basic respect is something needed on both sides of the argument and across the forum.

I appreciate you actually responding to my OP with an opinion! For me it's a matter of proportion, not size.

[Skip]

I never purported to be a discus expert, it's just a matter of opinion. Virtually every animal that has been domestically bred is almost invariably raised to be bigger than it's natural counterparts - bass, chickens, turkey, cattle etc etc, and I'm merely asking if discus hobbyists think that bigger is always better, that's all.

Its not biggerbigger is better.. its more like Not stunting them instead.. difference..

Water quality. . Water changes.. genetics. Food.. health. .
All are factors for discus growth.. its very easy to stunt a fish.. but u must be disciplined with care to allow them best environment for grow..
come to nada convention next summer.. I guarantee u you perception on discus care will change ... those fish at show should be a hobbyists goal at some point..

[ericatdallas]

Wouldn,t a 8 inch fish have the same correlation as a persons height. So do pro basketball players have shorter life spans?

Now this guy is a different story. LOL
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/ipuffer_zps2bb689f0.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/ipuffer_zps2bb689f0.jpg.html)

There is a correlation between height and longevity in humans. There's research that points to shorter people living longer, however, that may be confounded with other factors. Although there is also contradicting information --- such as increased lifespan and height in a population. However, that is also the correlation between superior nutrition and size. So, I think the research points to better nutrition, longer life AND larger stature.

[OC Discus]

I think you are right. The superior care that goes into raising jumbo fish ensures a better than average lifespan.


There is a correlation between height and longevity in humans. There's research that points to shorter people living longer, however, that may be confounded with other factors. Although there is also contradicting information --- such as increased lifespan and height in a population. However, that is also the correlation between superior nutrition and size. So, I think the research points to better nutrition, longer life AND larger stature.

[aquadon2222]

There is a correlation between height and longevity in humans. There's research that points to shorter people living longer, however, that may be confounded with other factors. Although there is also contradicting information --- such as increased lifespan and height in a population. However, that is also the correlation between superior nutrition and size. So, I think the research points to better nutrition, longer life AND larger stature.

In humans, WEIGHT is highly inversely correlated to lifespan - heavy people die young, and it's not just inactive obese ones. An example is professional football linemen. They weigh, on average, 310lbs due to consuming massive amounts of food, excessive protein, mega doses of vitamins, supplements, and probably some other 'medications' to increase their size. They generally suffer from more disease and have a life expectancy of only 54 years!

[John_Nicholson]

LOL...How does that old saying go? There are lies, damned lies, and then statistics.....Since you seem to have all of the answers how old is the oldest discus you have ever raised? If it is anything less than 12 years then you need to exit this conversation......

-john


In humans, WEIGHT is highly inversely correlated to lifespan - heavy people die young, and it's not just inactive obese ones. An example is professional football linemen. They weigh, on average, 310lbs due to consuming massive amounts of food, excessive protein, mega doses of vitamins, supplements, and probably some other 'medications' to increase their size. They generally suffer from more disease and have a life expectancy of only 54 years!

[ericatdallas]

In humans, WEIGHT is highly inversely correlated to lifespan - heavy people die young, and it's not just inactive obese ones. An example is professional football linemen. They weigh, on average, 310lbs due to consuming massive amounts of food, excessive protein, mega doses of vitamins, supplements, and probably some other 'medications' to increase their size. They generally suffer from more disease and have a life expectancy of only 54 years!

There are several contributing factors to 'weight' such as bone mass, muscle mass, and fat. I'm not going to expound on that because I think everyone else gets it.

[nc0gnet0]

They weigh, on average, 310lbs due to consuming massive amounts of food, excessive protein, mega doses of vitamins, supplements, and probably some other 'medications' to increase their size. They generally suffer from more disease and have a life expectancy of only 54 years!

Seriously dude, stop with this nonsense. Stop with the of the cuff and pulled out of your posterior "Facts" and do some research before posting such nonsense.

The Average offensive lineman weighs much closer to 265lbs (but hey, I guess 310 sounded much better).

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=merron/041124_rankings

Not to mention your throwing several sets of viariables that are not even close to being applicable to the discusion at hand.

The second leading cause of death was homicide/suicide just slightly below that of heart disease. Of the ones that died of heart disease, the majoirty were classified as obese. Obese, and big, are two totally seperate things. I for one have never seen an obese discus, although I have seen several large ones.

[aquadon2222]

[QUOTE=John_Nicholson;1055656]LOL...How does that old saying go? There are lies, damned lies, and then statistics.....Since you seem to have all of the answers how old is the oldest discus you have ever raised? If it is anything less than 12 years then you need to exit this conversation......

It's called an analogy jon. Something used to foster debate and discussion. Relax.

[Tazalanche]

Let's all agree that you disagree with the majority here and just let this thread die before it goes further downhill.

[aquadon2222]

Seriously dude, stop with this nonsense. Stop with the of the cuff and pulled out of your posterior "Facts" and do some research before posting such nonsense.

The Average offensive lineman weighs much closer to 265lbs (but hey, I guess 310 sounded much better).

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=merron/041124_rankings

Not to mention your throwing several sets of viariables that are not even close to being applicable to the discusion at hand.

Can you read nor are you just bad with numbers? Did you take the time to read the article (the one that you cited) or just google and read the headline? Talk about pulling facts out of your backside - read the article this time.

[Ryan]

Oh good, more bickering. It's good to know that as the years come and go, some things never change.

Move along. Thread's closed.