Blue Scorpion Darkened, not eating well

[xmas_dude]

Hi folks

Needed help with my juvie blue scorpion that has turned dark for last 4 days and not eating too well.

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Blue scorpion discus (3.5") has turned dark, not very active, not eating well and often spotted with nose slightly tilted down. This has started since about 4 days. The only new thing I am seeing is that one of my adult discus in the tank spawned few days back, and I think the male from the pair has become more aggressive and might be giving this juvie some beating. Havent observed excessive aggression myself but, do see more of the pecks and the dark discus little frightened of the adult discus which wasnt there before. Fish in my tank have recently recovered from acute stress (flashing, gasping at surface of water) caused by something ( suspect excess chloramine or lack of O2) which went away on its own by increasing prime dose (I double dose prime right now), and adding powerhead for surface agitation in tank. Not sure if this juvie scorpion has caught some secondary infection from that.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Turning dark. I also see the gills on this discus slightly flared and eyes are slightly cloudy as well.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
None


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
55G planted tank (see pic): Pressurized Co2.

Occupants
5 discus (3 juvies 3-3.5" and 2 x 4-4.5").
8 cardinal tetras
7 rummynose tetras
1 otto
2 cory sterbai
2 swordtails
1 adult angelfish (~3.5")
1 german ram

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
60% daily

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tank is up for last 6 months. Tank has 50% floor bare bottom and the remaining 50% at back is planted and has ecocomplete substrate about 3 " avg depth

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Yes. Age Tap water treated with prime for 24 hrs. PH swing is across the 24 hr period is from 7.6 -> 8

8. Parameters and water source;
Municipal water.

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____ 84F

- ph _____ 7.4

- ammonia reading ____ 0

- nitrite reading ____ 0

- nitrate reading ____ 10

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____ 0%

- municipal water ____ 100%

- RO water ____ 0%


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

At this time, this is the only discus (other 2 juvie discus and the adult discus are doing fine and infact the adults just spawned in the tank few days back) that is dark and not eating well. Not sure if this is just stress from aggression which will take care of itself or something I need to medicate. Didnt want it to become too late especially if it is some parasitic/bacterial infection.

[xmas_dude]

Any feedback folks?

I have done pretty large water changes last 2 days (almost 80%) every day. Not dropped any meds yet. While the color has slightly lightened, I dont see any improvement in activity level or the slightly nose down posture. While the discus did peck at the FDBW, it is not eating as aggressively as before.

[timmy82]

The best start would be get it into a BB QT tank and continue large water changes. But if not possible get some epson salt in the tank he could be clogged?

[xmas_dude]

The best start would be get it into a BB QT tank and continue large water changes. But if not possible get some epson salt in the tank he could be clogged?

Thanks Timmy, Actually I decided to go BB in the main tank itself. Tank running with BB (left few plants in pots) and driftwood yesterday. Tons of gunk from the gravel was removed :(
Large wcs (~75%) daily are ongoing with vaccum of the bottom. While the blue scorpion color has lightened up very little, I dont see improvement in activity and the slight nose down posture continues. He did eat a little of the FDBW today but nothing like the aggressive eating he was used to.

Regarding clogging, I dont see any visible bloat yet.

Sunil

[dirtyplants]

Here are my concerns about your info:

Fish in my tank have recently recovered from acute stress (flashing, gasping at surface of water) caused by something ( suspect excess chloramine or lack of O2) which went away on its own by increasing prime dose (I double dose prime right now), and adding powerhead for surface agitation in tank. Not sure if this juvie scorpion has caught some secondary infection from that.

I can only assume that during the above statement you tested your water for Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates?
I am concerned because a parasitical infestation (which attaches to/in the gills) like gill flukes or a few others common to Aquariums, may be and issue here. When fish come to the top because they can't breath it is usually water or parasites of some kind. This may have been alleviated but not elliminated by water changes and supplemental aeration. You should watch carefully for symptoms.
Your nitrates are high for a daily water change of 60% how much are you feeding? Your substrate is?
Do you also clean the substrate?
Next: pointing slightly down, can also be a resting position, is he staying in one place? is he moving his gill fins rapidly? does he look labored in his breathing? his color is the indicator of stress.
Does he look slightly bloated or extended?
He could have eaten something like a piece of beaf heart that may be causing some intestinal distress?
He might be constipated epsons for 48 hour period and no food in between (but he is not eating anyway) would not hurt.
I am much more concerned with the last stressor, any signs of anything else on the skin? I would QT him. This will eliminate him from being bullied and allow you to visually monitor his physical condition. Watch to see if he has any breathing issues and keep an eye out on the others also. Also watch for pop eye/ fluid build behind the eyes. See if he perks up in the QT.

[xmas_dude]

Here are my concerns about your info:


I can only assume that during the above statement you tested your water for Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates?
I am concerned because a parasitical infestation (which attaches to/in the gills) like gill flukes or a few others common to Aquariums, may be and issue here. When fish come to the top because they can't breath it is usually water or parasites of some kind. This may have been alleviated but not elliminated by water changes and supplemental aeration. You should watch carefully for symptoms.
Your nitrates are high for a daily water change of 60% how much are you feeding? Your substrate is?
Do you also clean the substrate?
Next: pointing slightly down, can also be a resting position, is he staying in one place? is he moving his gill fins rapidly? does he look labored in his breathing? his color is the indicator of stress.
Does he look slightly bloated or extended?
He could have eaten something like a piece of beaf heart that may be causing some intestinal distress?
He might be constipated epsons for 48 hour period and no food in between (but he is not eating anyway) would not hurt.
I am much more concerned with the last stressor, any signs of anything else on the skin? I would QT him. This will eliminate him from being bullied and allow you to visually monitor his physical condition. Watch to see if he has any breathing issues and keep an eye out on the others also. Also watch for pop eye/ fluid build behind the eyes. See if he perks up in the QT.


Hi,

During stress period mentioned above, water params were tested and were fine. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10 ppm. I am no longer seeing the flashing and heavy breathing/gasping at water surface that was happenning. Infact all tankmates have recovered well and one discus pair actually spawned in the tank since.

Yup, I am not able to keep nitrates down. Been doing 2-3 feedings a day. Feed1 = 1 cube of FDBW, feed2 = Frozen bloodworms, feed3 = 1 cube of FDBW. I realized that it is very very difficult to get the gunk out from gravel (3 inch eco complete substrate) in my planted tank with the type of dense stem plants I had. This is why I have bit the bullet and gone BB couple days back with few plants retired to 4 pots that I can easily move around during BB vaccum.

Regarding the problematic blue scorpion, some more data. Today I did get visual inspection of the poop and it is dark and solid like other healthy discus. So doesnt look like some obvious case of internal parasites. He was never doing that pointed down posture before. Now he is usually in this position when stationary, but also slightly nose down when swimming around. The biggest change I have observed in him is lethargy, and no interest in eating besides the dark color. He isnt flashing against objects or gasping at surface. The gills are slightly flared though.... He is releasing quite a bit of mucus. He does have slightly cloudy eyes as well.

I have started a Furan-2 treatment since yesterday. Should be done by tomorrow. The daily 75% WCs are continuing... Seeing some improvement in dark color, but not much improvement in activity/eating still...

Sunil