First Discus tank, are my plans in check? **Beginning research stages**

[CanuckGame]

Hey everyone, so i have been in the hobby for a year now, and i love it, have been keeping Apistogrammas and have bred them and such, but im looking for something new!

I have become interested in keeping Discus, i have really gotten into researching them the past week and i am probably 2 or 3 months away from purchasing my first Discus, so right now i am just filling my head with as much information as i can during this time, i want to do it the RIGHT WAY.

the setup i have

-75 Gallon tank (48" long x 18" deep)
-Fluval FX5, the 3 trays will be filled with Seachem Pond Matrix and have the sponges and such
-Basic light nothing special just a flourecent tube fixture

in the tank im planning on having a 1" layer of Pool filter sand for substrate and Manzanita branches

here is what the tank looks like, i have since painted the backround black, ignore the substrate in the tank in this picture, i was going to do a Planted tank but decided against it, the soil in the tank now will be replaced with 1" of PFS as stated above

http://i44.tinypic.com/b868mb.jpg
the manzanita will probably be placed differently but thats not important.

my water parameters out of the tap are....

PH-7
KH-40 MG/L (ppm)
GH 60 MG/L (ppm)

PH remains at 7 once aged 24 hours as well, so no swings.


I was planning on getting 6 or 7 Discus at 4 Inches, and doing 50-75% water changes 2x per week. i have NOT done much research on diet as of yet, i know the basics but i have a few months to master my plan with that.


does everyone think this will work with my current plans? i wont take offense if anyone has anything critical to say, i just want to learn and will appreciate any and all information you guys can throw my way.

i want this to go great for my first time and want to be successful, so i hope with how i have done my research so far i am actually learning something and my plans are somewhat in check!

thanks!

[OC Discus]

Welcome,

You are wise to do this level of research before purchasing your fish. People will have different opinions on some things, but I will offer a couple of ideas that might save you some headaches later:

1) Try to get a non-silica based sand from an upscale pool store. Silica is a source of food for diatom, brown algae, that can become a nuisance later.

2) Don't use so much sand. Only enough to cover the bottom of the tank. Any substrate is a breeding ground for parasites and anaerobic bacteria. With a minimum amount, you will be able to vacuum to the bottom every time and have less build up of nasties.

3) If you get pigeon bloods, the dark background may accentuate peppering, which is undesireable in discus. Some fish will actually look good against a black background, but probably not pigeons- it will be a crap shoot.

4) 4" fish is a good choice- The critical growth period is the first 4". Try to get them all from one source at the same time. Kenny, a sponsor on sd, probably offers the largest variety of healthy 4" discus. He gets a new shipment every month and usually sells out before the next month. Start looking at his site early and call to see what will be in the next shipment. You may pay more for each fish, but if you bought younger fish you would probably spend about as much to get a group of the same quality- for example- ordering 8 or 10 smaller fish with hopes of keeping 6. You will also eliminate some losses often associated with younger fish.

5) The wood is a good choice. Keep it minimal so you can move it from side to side for water changes.

6) 50% water changes twice a week might work if you don't feed too much. If you feed heavily, you might need to do more often or more volume.

7) Carbon is not usually recommended in discus tanks except to remove medication. I'm not familiar with the media you mentioned. Can you describe that? Pond Media?

Good luck. Welcome to SD.

[Cullymoto]

+1 on the black background. If you get anything based on pigeon it will pepper heavy. Red melon, Marlboro, pigeon blood, goldens, etc.
anything else looks great against a black background lol. Choose carefully

[BODYDUB]

I love the look of it though............

[Nick Klimkowski]

Keep in mind what spices of discus you want to keep it you do a black background and black gravel most discus will turn darker.

[CanuckGame]

Yikes, you guys have spooked me a little, are my options VERY limited now with a black backround? or is it only certain species? does anyone have a suggestion for 6 or 7 Discus that would look great with a black backround? you see, i was planning on doing a Planted tank with Apisto's changed my mind, was going to do Mbuna Africans, so i then painted my backround black, and now ive changed my mind again to Discus, and it WILL NOT change again! Discus is what im going to do.

i want to do this 100% right the first time,

OC DISCUS- I was not planning on using Carbon, the Seachem pond matrix is a biomedia is has amazing reviews alot of people use it for their aquariums.





so does anyone have any tips on which discus WILL pepper? is the list extensive? also does anyone else have any comments with the plans as a whole? are they in check? or am i lacking knowledge in areas? if i went with my current plans will i succeed? how does my tap water params look in regards to the need of Discus?

[navydiscus]

What cullymoto said was spot on. "If you get anything based on pigeon it will pepper heavy. Red melon, Marlboro, pigeon blood, goldens, etc.
anything else looks great against a black background lol. Choose carefully." You still have a ton of species to choose from. Turqs look awesome in front of a black background as well as leopards, any blues, and snakeskins. Check out of few months of kenny's shipments, and you will see a ton of fish that will not pepper. Hope this helps. Not always the case, but the older the fish the less it will pepper, so if you get adults, you may be able to pull some pigeon based fish off.

[OC Discus]

You can ask the supplier if the fish are pigeon blood based- those are the ones that pepper. Some have pigeon blood in the name and others don't- like red melon, fire red.

Some safe bets include snow white, blue diamond, albino yellow, albino melon. I don't know if all turks and snakeskins are free of pigeon blood, or if some are mixed. You can look at Kenny's sponsor site and see quite a variety that may not pepper. Call or text him and ask. There is also a thread here on sd titled something like "discus strains for beginners".

Good luck.

[Nick Klimkowski]

Yikes, you guys have spooked me a little, are my options VERY limited now with a black backround? or is it only certain species? does anyone have a suggestion for 6 or 7 Discus that would look great with a black backround? you see, i was planning on doing a Planted tank with Apisto's changed my mind, was going to do Mbuna Africans, so i then painted my backround black, and now ive changed my mind again to Discus, and it WILL NOT change again! Discus is what im going to do.

i want to do this 100% right the first time,

OC DISCUS- I was not planning on using Carbon, the Seachem pond matrix is a biomedia is has amazing reviews alot of people use it for their aquariums.





so does anyone have any tips on which discus WILL pepper? is the list extensive? also does anyone else have any comments with the plans as a whole? are they in check? or am i lacking knowledge in areas? if i went with my current plans will i succeed? how does my tap water params look in regards to the need of Discus?


i think if you did any kind of albions they would look great in the tank.

[Ryan]

Well, let's be honest, it's not just pigeon-based discus. ALL discus will darken their colors and/or show their stress bars if they're in a dark environment. The darker your background and substrate, the darker your discus will appear.

Having said that, I am keeping some white pigeons and red covers in a tank with a black background and I only see minimal darkening, but that is because the bottom of the tank is painted a light tan color. You could achieve the same effect with light colored silica sand. The problem is that in addition to the black background you're going to have dark-colored manzanita wood (that wood in your pictures will darken as it becomes waterlogged) and that may be enough to make them want to darken up.

Here are my discus in a tank with a black background from a few months ago. You can see that they haven't darkened much, mainly because of the light bottom color:


http://youtu.be/dfx5MxJCY3Y

As Nick mentioned, albino discus have no black pigment and therefore cannot show stress bars (non-pigeon) or pepper (pigeon). You can keep them in a dark tank and their colors really glow.

[brewmaster15]

Another option since you painted the background Black... I have painted many tanks, and removing the paint is usually a piece of cake...Paints tend to bond poorly to glass. A new flat razor blade can remove that background paint I am guessing in no time at all.

hth,
al

[brewmaster15]

ps.. Nice tank Ryan!:) Still have a soft spot I see for those white pigeons!
-al

[CanuckGame]

Ok thanks everyone for the advice so far! i will probably change the backround, its not really alot of effort to do so!

how about all my other plans? are they in check? or should i plan some things different! ive noticed no one has mentioned anything else and sometimes no news is good news haha!

[Ryan]

My only concern is the Fluval. I love my Fluval FX5 canisters and I use them on all my large tanks, but I've never found a simple way to fit the intake with a prefilter sponge and so they suck up a ton of junk. Discus are kind of messy eaters, tearing up food and spitting it everywhere, and so you're going to end up with a lot of food in your filter along with feces, and those two things will quickly deteriorate your water quality as the waste and food break down. I like easy-to-clean filters in discus tanks because I usually have to squeeze and rinse sponges weekly. If you've ever broken down an FX5/FX6 to clean it, you know that's a real chore. It's a great filter, it's just going to add a lot of time to your maintenance. You could always switch the power off while you feed and then turn it on once the food is gone, but I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten to plug it back in and then I have to break it down and clean it because it's full of dead beneficial bacteria. :(

I've fallen in love with wet-dry filters. You can stuff sponges and floss into the sump and they're easily accessible. I change the filter floss/batting in my wet-dry filters every time I do a water change (weekly) and it's a quick five minute swap. The same can be said for AquaClear HOBs and sponge filters -- the media is easily removed and rinsed. It takes me about 30 minutes to shut down the FX5, disconnect the hoses, haul it to the tub, open it, take out the baskets, rinse the media, then reassemble it all again.

Starting with larger discus is a smart option. The larger, the better. Small fish require a lot more food and a lot more water changes for optimal growth, so if you'd rather not fuss with all that, buy adults. They are more expensive but it probably works out cheaper if you factor in your water and food bills for growing out small ones. ;)

[OC Discus]

Nice pigeons Ryan. Are those San Merah's? Are they pigeon based.

Just an observation. Some have beautiful pb with little to no peppering. Others have pb that are so peppered they are unattractive. Ryan, maybe you can give the secret to clean pb. I'm guessing

1) They come from clean parents
2) They are raised in optimal conditions- daily water changes, tankmates (maybe raised to adulthood with the same group from the same spawn), or purchased as adults raised under ideal conditions.

Question: If one buys an adult pb like yours Ryan- 4-5" that is clean with no peppering, will peppering develop in a tank with less than optimal water, stress of mixed strains, and maybe a dark substrate?