Setting up qt program for wilds

[dirtyplants]

I am actively looking for some nice wilds, and have tried to establish conversations with sponsors.
I am looking to establish a good qt program for them. I understand that a treatment for parasite external and internal is recommended and a qt period of 9 months. I am looking for suggestions for qt and meds regiment beginning from day one. I know these wilds will have been med. before a final destination and I have read many of the research, and dialog regarding the use of meds when and whys. So I am concerned with the meds effects on the body as a side effect. I have read also that many meds can leave the male sterile and that may be a future concern. Can anyone advise based upon experience?

[Second Hand Pat]

Coree, where did you read a qt of nine months is needed? If you are concerned about meds please read this...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?87723-Very-Suddenly-Sick&highlight=suddenly+very+sick

and after this happened the same group of fish did this...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?93579-Wild-Tefe-Spawn&highlight=wild+tefe+spawn

For QT I would recommend this...http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?21044-Quarantine-*questions/page6 and go to post 88 which is below.


Hi all,
Just saw this and thought I would update. I do much of what I always have done.. though I do tailor it a bit different depending on the condition the fish come in...

For those interested..I had done several Discus Disease and Health Presentations over the years... The following are from a few pages of that presentation. HTH, al

Suggested Quarantine Procedures...
Receive fish: Place into a clean tank with aged (well aerated/pH stable warm water (85-87F). Use a well cycled bio filter.
Week One: Many Frequent water changes, observe fish behavior, and treat for anything specifically noted******. Be sure all fish are eating well and passing normal feces.
Week Two: Prophylactic deworming with Praziquantel for tape worms, several days latter deworm with general dewormer (levamisole) added to water as 24 hour bath
Week Three: Repeat Levamisole as 24 hour bath
Week Four: Let rest, nothing but water changes.
Week Five: Re-dose with Levamisole as 24 hour bath
Week Six: Quarantine is over if the fish are looking healthy and eating well and are not to be mixed with existing stock. If these are to be mixed with existing stock..add least favorite of existing stock (aka Test fish) to new fishes stock.
Week Six-Week Eight: Observe new stock and test fish. If all is well, most likely safe to mix all fish.
**** important note

Quarantine Common Sense:
Maintain complete separation of new stock from existing livestock.
Use separate nets, hoses, buckets, and siphons for each quarantine tank.
Separate rooms are much safer than in room quarantines.
Perform all maintenance on new stock’s quarantine tank after you are done with all existing tanks.
Wash hands and arms thoroughly after working in tanks.
Maintain optimum water quality, less stress means healthier fish
Tank should have a fully cycled bio-filter. Quarantining a group of fish is not the time to be cycling a tank!!!
Be vigilant… catching and treating a problem early on is better than latter when it may be harder or impossible to treat.

Brews Top 11 Discus Health Issues
1. Chemical Poisoning: Chlorine, Chloramine, ammonia, nitrite, heavy metals (ex. copper and iron), Medications. Suggested treatment…clean water and lots of it!
2. Dissolved gases: Low dissolved oxygen or high dissolved C02/nitrogen etc. Suggested treatment ...age and aerate water.
3. Improper Shipping and Handling Techniques: Suggested treatment…prophylactic screening of suppliers and buying only from reputable ones.
4. Improper care of Discus at Vendor’s Shop: Suggested treatment…prophylactic screening of suppliers and buying from reputable ones.
5. Well meaning but inappropriate or inaccurate advice. Suggested course of action…Check references…information abounds in the internet and pet shops, both good and bad info.
Improper care of Discus on the part of the hobbyist. To keep any fish, a basic knowledge of species requirements and needs exists…Discus require a bit more than basic knowledge. Suggested treatment…Learn as much as you can!!
7. Poor Tank Hygiene Syndrome: Suggested treatment….Be less stingy with the water changes and maintenance.
8. “Charlie Brown Christmas Tree Syndrome” A fish that is sickly or poor quality when you buy it isn’t going to miraculously turn into a beautiful specimen. Suggestion..start with obviously healthy stock, not obviously sickly or low grade stock.
9. Hobbyist Mediated Pandemic: Occurs when a hobbyist recklessly acquires many specimens in a short period of time from multiple sources…mixing these together with existing stock then leads to Immune Overload..aka..sick fish. Suggested treatment….Learn patience and adhere to a sound Quarantine plan!!
10. Nutritional deficiencies…Largely unknown how this affects Discus specifically.. But what we do know is that every animal needs an adequate diet.. Suggestion…feed a varied diet to your discus of quality foods.

And finally…… Number 11!!!!


11. Gill flukes, external and internal protozoans, nematodes, bacterial infections, viruses, “plagues”etc…..

Why is this one listed last in a talk about Discus Diseases and health you may ask?…

Because! If you pay attention to the first 10 conditions mentioned you may not even need to worry about number 11! A healthy fish that has all its needs taken care of and is not stressed has an innate advantage when dealing with diseases and illness..

[dirtyplants]

This time frame is important to me. Thanks!
I don't remember where I read about the 9 months I thought it was rather long.
Evamisole how does this come? liquid, powder,? I can only find it in a gel or mixed with other chemicals? Any ideas about this?
I want to be totally prepared for any parasite, infestations. I am reading your ordeals what a nightmare. I will finish reading tomorrow need some sleep.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P4220117.jpg
Are those little white worms/fluke/ things under the lip chin area?

This is really helping me get my head in order for preparation of QTing wilds. This is exactly what I am in fear of. So I want to be prepaid for the worst and make sure I have what is needed for treatment.

[timmy82]

[QUOTE=dirtyplants;1059392]This time frame is important to me. Thanks!
I don't remember where I read about the 9 months I thought it was rather long.
Levamisole how does this come? liquid, powder,? I can only find it in a gel or mixed with other chemicals? Any ideas about this?

I use Avitrol plus which has both Levisimol and praziquantil in it find it to work well. Or Big - L just has Levisimol in it for pigs and sheep ect avitrol plus is a bird worm syrup or tablets I use the syrup as a higher concertration. Google them and your set

[dirtyplants]

Thanks timmy,
I have looked at the farm markets and found they only carry Levisimol in gel, I would like to get as much as possible from over the counter and hit my doctor with the really hard stuff for prescriptions. The prescriptions will probably cost a fortune so would like to avoid if possible.
oops sorry just reread and you said you use the syrup.

Will google all mentioned above, and I appreciate any and all information.

Pat what a saga!
This event reminded me of Baylisascaris
a round worm carried be raccoons. I had to put down many birds and mammals because the larva migrated into the nervous system and into the brain. The treatment for them as far as drugs were: piperazine, fenbendazole, pyrantel pamoate, levamisole and organophosphates such as dichlorvos. Infected critters exhibited same whirling as your fish. The worm larva can live 7 years, and is almost impossible to kill. We had to torch areas. Hard to treat depending where the larva migrated to in the body. This worm has always given me nightmares. I don't know if it can live in fish don't know the zoonoses. Can be transmitted by swallowing the eggs,
Eating another animal infested with Baylisascaris.
or
Contact with faeces of infested animal, skin absorbed.

Anyway I want most definitely to be prepared to handle anything that may come up and to ensure my domestics are not infected in any way. I am hoping to avoid such epic treatments and rescues.
QT 9 months seemed rather long, suggested amount of time recommended?

[dirtyplants]

Timmy,
Avitrol plus comes in syrup and in tabs, what is best for fish, add syrup to food? Or in tank water? Tabs, food or tank water?

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks timmy,
I have looked at the farm markets and found they only carry Levisimol in gel, I would like to get as much as possible from over the counter and hit my doctor with the really hard stuff for prescriptions. The prescriptions will probably cost a fortune so would like to avoid if possible.
oops sorry just reread and you said you use the syrup.

Will google all mentioned above, and I appreciate any and all information.

Pat what a saga!
This event reminded me of Baylisascaris
a round worm carried be raccoons. I had to put down many birds and mammals because the larva migrated into the nervous system and into the brain. The treatment for them as far as drugs were: piperazine, fenbendazole, pyrantel pamoate, levamisole and organophosphates such as dichlorvos. Infected critters exhibited same whirling as your fish. The worm larva can live 7 years, and is almost impossible to kill. We had to torch areas. Hard to treat depending where the larva migrated to in the body. This worm has always given me nightmares. I don't know if it can live in fish don't know the zoonoses. Can be transmitted by swallowing the eggs,
Eating another animal infested with Baylisascaris.
or
Contact with faeces of infested animal, skin absorbed.

Anyway I want most definitely to be prepared to handle anything that may come up and to ensure my domestics are not infected in any way. I am hoping to avoid such epic treatments and rescues.
QT 9 months seemed rather long, suggested amount of time recommended?

It was quite the saga and almost enough to put a newbie (like myself at the time) off discus forever but I stuck it out and glad I did. Baylisascaris sounds nasty.

Did you take a gander through that second thread?

Pat

[timmy82]

Timmy,
Avitrol plus comes in syrup and in tabs, what is best for fish, add syrup to food? Or in tank water? Tabs, food or tank water?

I have used both tablets and syrup direct into water. I use the syrup now as the concerntration is higher so use less.

http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/levamisole-hydrochloride-1

That link is good for some info. From what i understand scales fish can't handel Praziquantal that is the only contributing foctor between chosing to use Big L or Avitrol Plus.

[dirtyplants]

It was quite the saga and almost enough to put a newbie (like myself at the time) off discus forever but I stuck it out and glad I did. Baylisascaris sounds nasty.

Did you take a gander through that second thread?
WOW Pat, just finished your second thread! All 86 pages.
What an amazing adventure of rags and riches, a roller coster ride of tragedy and success! OK promise me if you have more babies to save some F1s for me. You really are inspirational and although you started out with heart break, your determination gives rise to the title Queen of Wilds. Really amazing outcome! I want to be like you when I grow up!:)
I have learned a lot from your tragedy and am still determined to get wilds. I may get depressed a bit with tragedy but I don't give up easily. I realized when my pair in my community tank laid eggs, and they actually turned into wigglers, that I was excited to try to raise fry.
So right now I will be happy to just find wilds. I am waiting to see what John has coming in Feb. hopefully the temps. will be above zero. No one wants to ship in sub zero weather.
You had some very good help with your infestation. That was lucky for all of us. Was it the Metro that was most effective in treatment?


Again thanks Timmy!

[Second Hand Pat]

Quite the ride Coree. My little Tefe female produces fry with two on the males and they all went through that whirling, darting medical hell together. My point was to help dispel some of your concerns with wilds and to also stir your passion. I hope I was successful in both regards. :)
Pat

[dirtyplants]

I am not so sure about my parasite phobia, I am intense and check all my fish, I make them line up and present their hands, :) but you certainly have proven to me that adversity can be conquered and yes you have stirred my passion and desire to work with wilds. Truly every time I see a post with wilds, I open it up. I am limited so have to do everything step by step. My next step is to get a few wilds. Mark has not as of yet responded to my requests, John was hard to get a hold of. So I am hoping for some respectable weather above zero in Feb. I am stocking up in meds for my fish first aid kit. I am also hoping more people will post their wild stories. Thanks for sharing!

[Second Hand Pat]

Here is another must read...Nandi is one of my wild mentors and we talk over FB chat regularly.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?75138-Wild-Xing%FAs