Free Swimmer Question

[Oneten]

Does first day free swimmer should b on the bottom of tank? got about 30 free swimmen and they r all on the bottom is that right? There r not dead but just on the bottom of the tank.
Should I do water change when the egg lay?
Is it right for them to sit on the bottom of the tank?
Its day 3 now and there r still alive but just every now and again they would make a big dash, any advice?

[astrochick00]

Bare bottom tank? What are the parents doing?

[Oneten]

take them in there mouth then spit them out again

[Tazalanche]

What about lowering the water level to try to help with attachment?

[astrochick00]

If it is a bare-bottom tank, and the parents are able to find the fry, things might turn out fine. It can take the free swimmers a day or two to find the parents and 'latch on.' So what you're seeing is not abnormal.

As for water changes, I continue them daily until the eggs hatch, then twice daily (smaller amounts as I lower the water level). You do need to check your water parameters and get it changed if you find something wrong. Toxins like nitrite and high NH3 levels are even more lethal to fry as they are to adults.

Just take all the steps suggested on here (lowering water level, slowing down sponge filtration/swapping to just an airstone, disguising heater and other dark stuff in the tank), and if the water is good and clean, the fry and parents should get it figured out.

Good luck!

[astrochick00]

*I should add that I am in NO WAY an expert, and if anyone else on here offers you advice that is contrary to mine, you should almost certainly follow their advice. I can only share what works for me, but, since no one else had replied, I thought I'd give my two cents :)

[Oneten]

thanks for that astrochick00 will try and find out wat is going wrong. when the parent take them in there mouth they spit them out and the fry latch on but just for about a 30 sec then the fry gone again. will try couple of things still.....

[Melissa]

In my experience, those "Belly Sliders" will not make it. All you can do is make sure your water is very clean so that we know this is not the result of a bacterial issue as new free swimmers and fry are susceptible to bacteria... It could just be genetic too. They just aren't quite right or strong enough to swim up to mom and dad.
While it is true sometimes it can take a while for the new free-swimmers to find the parents... sliding along the bottom of the tank and not being able to swim up is different.

A really big thing when breeding is you need to wipe down the sides and cracks of the tank daily. Bacteria like to grown in the nooks and crannies and gunk so keep your sponges squeezed and the glass wiped down :)

As for the question whether you should do a water change when they lay the eggs, you do not want to change the water immediately after spawning as to not wash away the males sperm... but you do need to keep the water clean while the eggs are developing before they hatch, so yes I change water when a pair is on eggs. I think some people say leave them alone, but I personally change the water quite a bit when a pair is on eggs. I'm just careful not to lower the water too much to reveal the eggs to the air... The key to successfully breeding IMO is CLEAN WATER! :)
Maybe others will chime in with their opinions? Everyone has their own way of doing things, you just have to find what works for you. :)

[Keith Perkins]

Did you by chance use methane blue on the eggs to prevent fungus? I ask because there was an article published recently that indicated MB in the water at free swimming contributed to belly sliders.

[timmy82]

Yes what Keith said I have heard that if all the methleyn blue isn't out of the water after hatch can give issues, could be genetic bad cross? Or gill fluke infestation from parents?

[Oneten]

no did not use any methleyn blue in water.... to b honest i think its the water as i never do water change when the pair lay

[Oneten]

thanks for all u input

[timmy82]

no did not use any methleyn blue in water.... to b honest i think its the water as i never do water change when the pair lay
That is ok I don't eaither. I have all the tanks fully cycled and once laided they wont get new water till 2-3 FS a lot here wont agree but it has worked well for me and atm have around 300+ young growing. I find you change water too early they think the wet has came and will eat them all and spawn again.

[John_Nicholson]

In my experience fry on the bottom is a bad thing. It is quite common for them to collect at the top before attachment. I always do my wc's.....Personally I don't worry about MB. I don't use it a lot but when I have I did not get an increase in belly sliders. I did not see where you talked about your normal wc routine. My guess is a water problem. You cannot keep your tank clean enough when they are spawning. What I mean by that is I see a lot of people that are afraid to mess up so they stop doing their normal wc routine...in my opinion the most important time for clean water is when the fry is developing. Lots of the problems that people see and think are genetic are not. They are a product of bacteria when the fry is developing.

-john

[Melissa]

I agree completely with John, this is most likely a water issue. If you go a few days without changing water and wiping the tank down, run your hand across the inside of the glass and you will feel it gets slimy. Perfect breeding ground for nasties.

[Oneten]

ok will continue to do water change when the pair lay........ will let u all know if i get a better result

[nc0gnet0]

In my experience, those "Belly Sliders" will not make it. All you can do is make sure your water is very clean so that we know this is not the result of a bacterial issue as new free swimmers and fry are susceptible to bacteria... It could just be genetic too. They just aren't quite right or strong enough to swim up to mom and dad.

Belly sliders don't develop until 2-3 weeks, not at day one of free swim. Belly sliders are caused by a failure of the swim bladder to inflate. If you got fry on the bottom of the tank, most likely a week batch or water issues (or both) as John said.


You cannot keep your tank clean enough when they are spawning. What I mean by that is I see a lot of people that are afraid to mess up so they stop doing their normal wc routine...in my opinion the most important time for clean water is when the fry is developing. Lots of the problems that people see and think are genetic are not. They are a product of bacteria when the fry is developing.

While I do use meth blue, I couldn't agree more with the above statement.

[CliffsDiscus]

thanks for that astrochick00 will try and find out wat is going wrong. when the parent take them in there mouth they spit them out and the fry latch on but just for about a 30 sec then the fry gone again. will try couple of things still.....

This sound like the eggs don't have the stickly substance coating the eggs they just fall to the bottom of the tank floor. These eggs will still hatchout and fry will
swim up to the surface once the egg sac are consume but usually die off because they lack the adhesive gland. Problem goes back to the female. Better luck with next spawn.

Cliff

[Melissa]

Ahh I was using the term 'belly sliders' incorrectly then. Thank you for the clarification :)

[Oneten]

hello again, today i got a new batch of eggs, parent is taking care of them so far. We tak about doing WC when pair lay, my question is WHEN SHOULD I START DOING WC AND SHOULD I USE TAP WATER R R/O WATER? At the moment the temp is 29 and the tds is 63 any advice.

[John_Nicholson]

I normally do wc's everyday with my pairs. I often switch to tap once the eggs are hatched.

-john

[Allwin]

Keith, i tried using MB to certain level 2.5ML/10Gallon. So far in my last 4 Successful batches i just got 1 belly slider which i believe very common. Noticed, some asian breeders does MB as a default.


Did you by chance use methane blue on the eggs to prevent fungus? I ask because there was an article published recently that indicated MB in the water at free swimming contributed to belly sliders.

[Allwin]

I do a major WC, just before the wrigglers comes out(lets say 45 hrs after eggs laid). Even lower the water few inches below the eggs(Brandon's tips) and quickly fill the water.


hello again, today i got a new batch of eggs, parent is taking care of them so far. We tak about doing WC when pair lay, my question is WHEN SHOULD I START DOING WC AND SHOULD I USE TAP WATER R R/O WATER? At the moment the temp is 29 and the tds is 63 any advice.

[Oneten]

ok thanks....... will let u know how they turn out

[Kal-El]

I do daily WC during the whole process. I make sure my water temp is a little warmer (1/2 degree) than the tank temp. For me if my water temp are cooler it shocks my free swimmer and they start to die off. This was my issue early on but a little advice from a friend by keeping water warmer in the aging tank has stopped the die off during WC for me.

[the20tonknuckler]

I completely agree with John. The only time I've ever had attachment is when I was doing daily wc's with wipe down. Water quality is the key.

[Oneten]

Get about 50 wigglers now and i been doing my water change hopefully the water is spot on now and they find the parent. The parent been moving them to a cleaner spot on the cone good good so far.

[Oneten]

That wat i am talking about...... Free Swimmer finally attach to mom and dad.......... Its just like u all say that the water is the key...... I do water from the first day the pair lay until today. Now 1 is at the bottom of the tank which is good.... thanks again to all. here is some pic.....

[John_Nicholson]

Congrats now I just wish they were both blue or both PB's ....LOL.

-john

[rdiscus]

oh my ... I don't want to know how they turn out ... lol

[Oneten]

dont worry ryan u wont

[Oneten]

Dont worry Ryan u wont....