The odd, odd journey from F1 to F2. It should not be this hard...........

[John_Nicholson]

This little story started at the ACA in D.C. I think it was 2011. Jim and I were judging the discus class and there was a Stendker fish there with a pattern I had never seen and it was a nice fish. Long story short Chad (Sabres1) bought the fish and took it to Atlanta. He got some fry and I decided that I would pick some up at the NADA show. I got there and the fry looked great. They were something like 2 inches. I did what I always suggest my buyers do.....I picked 2 or 3 of the largest and nicest and then 7 or 8 or the medium sized ones for a total of 10. Normally that would give me plenty of males and females. Well I grow these fish out and they are looking great. I ended up with 4 that were 5 1/2 to 6 inches and 6 that are 6 1/2+ inches at a year. Looks like a good split of males and females. Well they start to spawn and I really wanted to work with this gene( and deer season was getting close ) so I sold my other pairs to concentrate on these......well as time went on I figured out that something was wrong. I had 8 confirmed females and 2 more that I strongly feared were females....Now folks I have done this a long, long time and I have never seen anything like this. Since I wanted to concentrate the genes of their father outcrossing again was not what I wanted to do. I ended up calling Chad and begging him for some males. Well he had a couple from the next spawn that he felt might be males. We made the deal and the fish arrived. I put them in the tank with 6 known females and waited. I got worried when the females were dropping eggs left and right the the new fish were not interested at all.........Then one morning they decide to get in the game.........with each other.......Chad was not quite right the 2 males ended up being a pair. So the tale of the tape 12 fish bought....11 females and 1 male.........but at least I have some F2's on the cone but my next question is how do these idiots expect me to change water?

-john

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/DiscusJohn/2014-01-20175227_zps9b95a1c0.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/DiscusJohn/media/2014-01-20175227_zps9b95a1c0.jpg.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/DiscusJohn/2014-01-20175245_zps5b0e5db5.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/DiscusJohn/media/2014-01-20175245_zps5b0e5db5.jpg.html)

[rdiscus]

Good luck John, you have been waiting for this for long time ... Skip water change for few days and i'm sure some wriggler are inside the PVC too

[John_Nicholson]

There is...LOL


Good luck John ... Skip water change for few days and i'm sure some wriggler are inside the PVC too

[astrochick00]

LOL.

Are these the 'dumb blondes' of the discus world???
They certainly are pretty enough to make all this work worthwhile for you, John. Congrats on the wrigglers, and good luck with the WC's.
:)

[nc0gnet0]

. I had 8 confirmed females and 2 more that I strongly feared were females...

Jim and I can top that by a long shot.........

Whats the goal John, I pigeon with a full pattern that looks like a turq?

[John_Nicholson]

Go look at the pics of the male. A red fish with thin line rings over the entire body. The mother was a fire red so none of the fry look like the male.

-john

[Larry Bugg]

Sweet John, can't wait to see if you can get that ring pattern to come back.

[nc0gnet0]

Go look at the pics of the male.

Where can I find this thread/pic?

[Wes]

Is this it? http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?111403-Stendker-Ring-Leopard-2nd-Generation-Spawn

[Larry Bugg]

Is this it? http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?111403-Stendker-Ring-Leopard-2nd-Generation-Spawn

Nope, thats not it. That is one of the F1's.

[John_Nicholson]

Rick not a great picture but here you go.

-john

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?109181-Stendker-Ring-Leopard-Pigeon-Blood-Offspring

[Wes]

Nope, thats not it. That is one of the F1's.

Thats a cool fish.

[Allwin]

The following errors occurred with your submission

John_Nicholson has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

[John_Nicholson]

Sorry I will get that cleaned up.....seems I delete 30 or 40 pm's a week and I still run out of room...sorry about that.

-john

[Allwin]

lol, i know.. Your being bugged more often by people like me :)


Sorry I will get that cleaned up.....seems I delete 30 or 40 pm's a week and I still run out of room...sorry about that.

-john

[sdrexler078]

Can't wait for some fry to be available. You could always change water with a bucket manually for that one tank

[Keith Perkins]

I'm pretty sure John has found a siphon hose and bucket laying around somewhere.

[Chad Adams]

This is Original Thread


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?92452-Stendker-Ring-Leopard-PB-Fry

Chad

[John_Nicholson]

Thanks Chad for the link and everyone else for your comments.

-john

[Chad Adams]

I sure do miss those guys. They were given LOTS of TLC growing up.

Now that we know they are a pair, can I get the extra $100 bucks for them!!

Chad

[John_Nicholson]

I sure do miss those guys. They were given LOTS of TLC growing up.

Now that we know they are a pair, can I get the extra $100 bucks for them!!

Chad

I was thinking of asking for a refund since you did not deliver what was promised....LOL.

-john

[Ryan]

I really like the pattern on the one fish. Funny how it's got thick white striation to the middle of its body, then it just stops. Do you think it will continue to develop the white throughout or has it been like that for a while now?

Either way they're a nice pair and I love their shape.

[John_Nicholson]

Ryan I think the color/pattern is now set. Of the ones I have they range from almost no striations, to half bodies, to full striations. The color is the same on all of them but the pattern varies.

-john

[sholvey]

Good looking fish. Good luck with them John.

[Cichlidcraze]

John- dont go out in during an electical storm. You must have the worst luck ever.....lol. Love that strain. Good luck developing it. Sorry for the newbie question, but will you now breed the one male you have to multiple females?

Cass

[Kal-El]

Sorry I will get that cleaned up.....seems I delete 30 or 40 pm's a week and I still run out of room...sorry about that.

-john

Time to upgrade your account to premium... lol

[John_Nicholson]

Thanks guys.

And yes I will cross him with every female that I have. When NADA gets here I think Chad and I are going to do some trading if he has some proven males by then but until them the male will have a smile on his face......

-john

[nc0gnet0]

Does Chad still have the original male with the ring pattern?

Rick

[John_Nicholson]

No he was robbing fry and the male charged the front of the tank. He hit hard and died fairly quick.


Does Chad still have the original male with the ring pattern?

Rick

[Skip]

do you want to trade for GUPPIES?

[John_Nicholson]

do you want to trade for GUPPIES?
....a.......a.....a....no.......

but if you work hard on NADA I might find a few to give you.

-john

[nc0gnet0]

No he was robbing fry and the male charged the front of the tank. He hit hard and died fairly quick.


That sucks, I was wondering why no one was crossing the F1's back to the dad......


-Rick

[John_Nicholson]

Yea it would really make it easier if he was around. I am really looking forward to watching the F2's grow to see if any of them show the pattern. Several of the fish show a few rings (including the 2 you are getting) but none of them are the really thin lines.


That sucks, I was wondering why no one was crossing the F1's back to the dad......


-Rick

[nc0gnet0]

Yeah, I was going a little bit different direction with them, but it will be interesting to compare notes. Maybe when you get a few more batches and some extra males I can throw my hat in the ring as well, in regards to trying to get something like that origianl male (which was indeed phenominal).

[Palmetto deuce]

That original ring leopard was very nice. Does Hans sell them regularly?

[Skip]

That original ring leopard was very nice. Does Hans sell them regularly?

i think it was just luck with genetics ;)

[John_Nicholson]

That original ring leopard was very nice. Does Hans sell them regularly?

As far as I know he was the only one ever produced.

-john

[Tautog]

I've only seen picture of fish like that and wish I could acquire ones like that. I'm going to go to the NADA event in Austin. I'd like know more. I work hard on my 150G and appreciate the SA community environment I've setup but I know I'm an amateur with intention grow in the hobby.

[John_Nicholson]

Glad to read that you are going to NADA. You will learn more in those few days then you have the last several years. It is great.

-john

[Larry Bugg]

Have to give my buddy a pat on the back. When Chad saw the male at the ACA he instantly knew it had potential and purchased it from Hans. He then spent a great deal of time finding the right mate for him. Chad's other pairs went on the back burner and he put everything he had into the pair. I used to joke with him because he never kept any of his fry. There was always someone who wanted to buy them and inevitably he always sold them all. Not so with the fry from this pair. Yup, he sold a bunch of them but he also kept a bunch of them. The outcome has been some really beautiful discus. Everyone here has drooled over the pics Chad posted with the really vibrant reds. I can tell you that the color was even better in person and those who saw them at the NADA 2012 will agree. It also needs to be noted again that one of the F1's from the pair took Best In Show at a Show in Florida this Summer. Now he is chasing the ring pattern of the original male along John. I hope he find it.

[Tautog]

I'm looking forward to it. I suppose I need to register. I've only been raising Discus since about April 2013 but fish since May 2012. I tried everything first year but settled on Discus. I first heard about NADA from the lady at AquaTek in Austin. There is a Fish Gallery now in Austin been there too and then there is that Dome. Can't remember the name but it's off Ben White near Manchaca. I guess I've been to just about every LFS in TX

[John_Nicholson]

I'm looking forward to it. I suppose I need to register. I've only been raising Discus since about April 2013 but fish since May 2012. I tried everything first year but settled on Discus. I first heard about NADA from the lady at AquaTek in Austin. There is a Fish Gallery now in Austin been there too and then there is that Dome. Can't remember the name but it's off Ben White near Manchaca. I guess I've been to just about every LFS in TX


I use to love finding new pet stores but it is getting so hard to find a good old fashioned mom and pop store that I have about given up looking...LOL.

Looking forward to talkinf discus with you.

-john

[Skip]

there is a mom/pop pet store in nw austin.. gallery of pets.. all kinds of different pet supplies.. birds/dogs/cats, repts.. fish.. BUT their prices are SUPER CRAZY HIGH.. i don't shop there. but i do stop in to check it out every few months..

[Tautog]

There is a M&P in Webster called Aquatic Zoo and one in Fort Worth just can't remember name. It's near White Settlement. I was very disappointed in LFS in Corpus Christi. Wait there was one. Big believers in the HOB config and anti cannister. All I remember. Dallas has one on the Lake. The older guy working the shop used to own it but he sold out now just works their.

Anyone have an opinion of that Aqua Dome? Seemed to cater to ponds. Have not seen as much of that.

[Chad Adams]

I really like the pattern on the one fish. Funny how it's got thick white striation to the middle of its body, then it just stops. Do you think it will continue to develop the white throughout or has it been like that for a while now?
Either way they're a nice pair and I love their shape.

Hey Ryan, from what I can tell I believe his pattern is set. He's close to 18 months or so. I love the split pattern!


Ryan I think the color/pattern is now set. Of the ones I have they range from almost no striations, to half bodies, to full striations. The color is the same on all of them but the pattern varies.
-john

Same here


That original ring leopard was very nice. Does Hans sell them regularly?

No. It was One of a Kind. For now...

Chad

[nc0gnet0]

Chad,

Are you working on the same goal as John is, to produce a fish like the father? If you are, what is the closest you have come so far? Any offspring that have produced the ring pattern?

[Ryan]

I agree Chad, the split pattern is what really caught my attention. It's a nice contrast, the white against the solid orange. Kinda the same reason I love halfblack angelfish.

[Chad Adams]

I agree Chad, the split pattern is what really caught my attention. It's a nice contrast, the white against the solid orange. Kinda the same reason I love halfblack angelfish.

Did you see these?

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?109183-Stendker-Ring-Leopard-Pigeon-Blood-Offspring

[Chad Adams]

Chad,
Are you working on the same goal as John is, to produce a fish like the father? If you are, what is the closest you have come so far? Any offspring that have produced the ring pattern?

Yes, we would like to reproduce the pattern from the original male, then solidify it.

It's tough to say what is the closest because the male was adult when we all came upon him. This strain seems to change their pattern every couple of months.

I believe these 2 bottom right would be the closest:


http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/88Sabres/Ring%20Leopard%20PB/Ring%20Leopard%20PB%20Spawn/RLPB%20Misc%20F1s%201%20yr%20old%20Jan%202014/DSCF4669_zpsfd3e0423.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/88Sabres/Ring%20Leopard%20PB/Ring%20Leopard%20PB%20Spawn/RLPB%20Misc%20F1s%201%20yr%20old%20Jan%202014/DSCF4666_zps3cdedb0c.jpg (http://s633.photobucket.com/user/88Sabres/media/Ring%20Leopard%20PB/Ring%20Leopard%20PB%20Spawn/RLPB%20Misc%20F1s%201%20yr%20old%20Jan%202014/DSCF4666_zps3cdedb0c.jpg.html)

[nc0gnet0]

That's interesting, I would have thought that ones looking like this might show the most promise (all of them are gorgeous) with your end goal in mind:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/88Sabres/Ring%20Leopard%20PB/Ring%20Leopard%20PB%20Spawn/Various%20RLPB%20Cross%20Fry/DSCF4515_zpsc7116368.jpg

It's also very interesting browsing thru your timeline photo's to see the amount of white base that the f1's have, considering the parents. Whenver I have noticed a progression of color/pattern with my pb offspring it seems they lose pattern and start turning more towards WB's the older they get (not true Wb's just more white, less straitions with color). Is this what your seeign as well?

-Rick

[Ryan]

Rick, I was going to mention that as well. The first batch of WB x Golden that I grew out looked a lot like this in the early days, bright orange background with full white striations. Then from about eight months to eighteen months old, the white slowly covered over and they turned almost completely solid. I'm wondering if those fish showing only half the pattern will continue to develop the striation up until about 18 - 24 months of age.

If not, there are still some really cool looking fish in that bunch. There are a couple I wouldn't mind netting and sneaking away from there. :D

[nc0gnet0]

I don't think the ones with partial pattern will fill out. I have seen this plenty with my cross's. It does however offer us some insight into how discus develop thier pattern.

Take this fish for instance:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/b2-9-2-9_zps1f38dafe.jpg

[Chad Adams]

That's interesting, I would have thought that ones looking like this might show the most promise (all of them are gorgeous) with your end goal in mind:

-Rick

Funny you pick this fish. It was the one I thought had the most promise... 3 months ago. It seems to have lost some of the pattern, but still looks good. On most of the ones that have the large white circles, they seem to keep them. Like the pair I sent John.

[OC Discus]

Ok John. We need to see pictures of your fish.

[nwehrman]

I can't wait to see them!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John_Nicholson]

Ok John. We need to see pictures of your fish.

LOL.....I am really not a great picture guy.......Hopefully Ryan will bring his camera to the LSDC meeting and take a few.

-john