Newcomer being bullied

[Miamiheat]

Hello,
I purchased and introduced a big blue cobalt in a tank that had 6 discus already. The bigger of the six is a Cobalt of the exact same size.
I expected a few duels in the first few minutes as they all tried their luck at him. Now it seems only the "local" blue cobalt is kind of harassing it.
It's staying in a corner with clamped fins and stress bars really black and the other one still comes back to chase him.
It's been 24h. I have read that cyclids are cyclids I just wonder if there is any point at which it will be too much.

[Rudustin]

Give it some time. 24 hours is not enough time to establish the pecking order since the new Cobalt is unfamiliar with the territory. Questions: How big is the tank, how big are the discus (adults or juveniles), is it bare bottom or substrate and planted, is there anyplace to hide temporarily and if so could you rearrange the decorations to reset a pecking order? In most cases this problem solves itself given some time. Wait a little longer and see if the issue get better. Answer these questions first and perhaps others in the forum can suggest what to do.

[Miamiheat]

81409 they say a picture is worth a thousand words. The tank is 240L (I think This is 65 gallons).

[Miamiheat]

I can put in a big piece of wood?

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[Rudustin]

Well, the cobalt is still new. A piece of drift wood would be good but of course some of your other fish might hide as well. Give it another day. I've had this problem as well and eventually it did resolve itself. You are at your limit for stocking in that 65 gallon considering that the discus look like sub adults or adults. There are going to be territorial fights especially during feeding time. The Cobalt that you did get is at the bottom of the pecking order but if you just give it a bit more time you may see a change. I would just let it be for a day or two and then put in the driftwood if it continues. Good luck and let us know how it its going in 24 hours. I would also turn off the lights for the rest of the day and put them back on tomorrow. The more light the more the Cobalt will hide.

[Nick Klimkowski]

You may want to get a larger tank, that way they have more space and will most likely be less taritorial with one another.

[Miamiheat]

thank you very much for the feedback guys, I am actually shopping for a 450 liter tank (119 gal): how many full adult would fit in that?

[MendoMan]

This should work it works great for saltwater fish. Take a hand mirror and hang it outside the tank about mid water level. Hang it so they can see their own reflection through the glass and it kind of messes all of them up they are so busy looking at the reflection they forget about the new one. Do this for about one day if they go back to fighting when take it down put it back up. Let me know if it works.

[Rudustin]

A larger tank would be the solution. The formula is one discus for every ten gallons of water. In that tank you could put quite a few. I have a 125 gallon and I have nine adults in that tank.

[brddthomas]

I have a built-in 230 gal tank with 9 discus, 7 plecos, and a few other little fish. I have a 5.5" - 6" Discus that is just a bully. He will settle down for a few hours then starts back up. At feeding times he is really bad.

[Rudustin]

I have a five inch melon that is the biggest bully in the tank. She even bosses around my jumbo that is 8.5 inches. Here are pics of both discus. the one on the right bullies even the blue pigeon jumbo in the center of the picturehttp://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/Rudustin/IMG_0941_zpsf1bbbfb4.jpg (http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Rudustin/media/IMG_0941_zpsf1bbbfb4.jpg.html)

[dogeatdog3]

I had the same problem a couple of weeks ago I added 3 new discus to one of my tanks and the bullying never ended but had gotten worse. I had them in a planted tank and have had issues with snails and algae .so I did a total redo on my tank took everything out no plants and no decorations and my fish love it they have so much more room and they all swim together it's awesome I thought they might be skittish being so exposed but they love it , so far.

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[Miamiheat]

I have a five inch melon that is the biggest bully in the tank. She even bosses around my jumbo that is 8.5 inches. Here are pics of both discus. the one on the right bullies even the blue pigeon jumbo in the center of the picturehttp://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/Rudustin/IMG_0941_zpsf1bbbfb4.jpg (http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/Rudustin/media/IMG_0941_zpsf1bbbfb4.jpg.html)

Great looking fish. But yeah the surprise for me as a beginner is that I thought the fish is big so he will pretty much keep the others square. But I also have a small blue diamond that is pushing all the big ones.

Now there is also something new: i introduced the fish saturday along with the breeding cone that wasn't there. Suddenly my blue diamond and my pigeon blood start hanging out near the cone and chasing the others away. They are not very successful at it as I placed the cone in the usual hangout for all the fish and it is where the food settles. I believe I am witnessing a pair being formed but not 100% sure (haven't seen any flickering of fins or kissing cone...) It is more the 2 sticking together in a corner.

[Miamiheat]

I had the same problem a couple of weeks ago I added 3 new discus to one of my tanks and the bullying never ended but had gotten worse. I had them in a planted tank and have had issues with snails and algae .so I did a total redo on my tank took everything out no plants and no decorations and my fish love it they have so much more room and they all swim together it's awesome I thought they might be skittish being so exposed but they love it , so far.

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I think I am going to go the same route: with the sand and plants i have a feeling the fish are cramped. Secondly I have been fighting nitrates on that tank and I am pretty sure it comes from the sand (explanation: got that sand from a preowned tank that was heavily planted and had loads of fertilising balls (it took me a long time to get rid of the balls and wash but since i don't stir up the sand any leftovers in there must still be in there and leaching into the water.

[Miamiheat]

Update: i had in mind to remove a lot of my sand and thought it could be a could way to "distract" all fish from harassing the newcomer. So i did and it seems it is actually working. The fish in question stays within the group allright and I havent seen it getting picked on since last night. However: he still has clamped fins, looks depressed and hasn't eaten anything in 3 days: any siggestions? I am worried because he was very active at the shop in a tank with 10 other Discus.

[Rudustin]

He's still getting used to the others and all the changes you've made. I had new fish not eat for a month! Post pics when u can.


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[Miamiheat]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/05/eduby2y2.jpg

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[Len]

Update: i had in mind to remove a lot of my sand and thought it could be a could way to "distract" all fish from harassing the newcomer. So i did and it seems it is actually working. The fish in question stays within the group allright and I havent seen it getting picked on since last night. However: he still has clamped fins, looks depressed and hasn't eaten anything in 3 days: any siggestions? I am worried because he was very active at the shop in a tank with 10 other Discus.


What you really need to do at this point is leave well enough alone. He's in a new tank now and they're all adjusting. Him to them and them to him. You don't want to keep making changes at this point as it will only keep them stressed. They'll work out their pecking order and settle in. All they need from you right now is good house keeping and a little space without too much meddling.

[Miamiheat]

Understood. Makes perfect sense. Will let them settle.

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[trungnguyen]

Just off light for few days and let them work things by themselves. Just like human, we are shy when we go to the new places and meet new people. After for a while of seeing and knowing each other more, we feel more comfortable...


Trung.

[Miamiheat]

update: i don't see any bullying but fish still with clamped fins.

[Rudustin]

Have you water changed? You might need to do more than fifty percent. Are all the other discus fine. Did you quarantine this particular fish before you placed him your tank? Let us know. Rufus

[Miamiheat]

Hi, I am changing water everyday and its 60 to 70%. Did not quarantine the fish. It was bred by one of the shop's employees and was at the shop for 2 weeks only, I paid a deposit on it and collected it about a week later. looking as good as the first day. He seems to improve everyday so i will just sit tight and observe.

[Miamiheat]

update: I rarely see the fish with clamped fins, but he still hides behind a big pot and when i feed he gets close but I have not seen him eat anything. It is a big fish and he does not look skinny by any means but I cant help but worry if he does not feed.

[Rudustin]

Okay first of all never plop in a fish into your main tank without qt! I've done it and lost every fish I had! Now that you have heard that lecture let's just keep up the water changes. The discus is probably eating but you may not see him eat because he is shy. Just wait. If the fin clamping has ceased and he does come out every now and then that is an improvement. Keep feeding normally and it will come around. Keep letting us know.

[Rudustin]

Like I said I ordered six adult discus from Discus Hans and not one of them ate for almost a month. Everytime I emailed him or texted him he would just calm me down and tell me to be patient. They all turned out to eat like monsters!

[Miamiheat]

Wow so stressful!

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[Rudustin]

I know it's stressful! I was really upset about it! But I think it's common.


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[Beurre blanc]

So how is it going with him? Is he eating, being bullied?

[Miamiheat]

I have not seem him eat yet. The other cobalt seems to bully him still.

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[Rudustin]

Is he getting thin? Does he look stressed to you? If so it has now been over ten days that this has been going on. I think it may be time for isolation perhaps of the bully cobalt not the one that is being bullied. Do you have another tank that you can put the naughty cobalt in to. I think if you take the newer cobalt and move him it will cause him to be more stressed than he already has been.

[Miamiheat]

Hi. He does appear stressed but he doesn't look thin. It is a very good looking fish. He spends most of the time behind a plant pot because the other guy chases him. He is not afraid of me for example and is not panicking or getting spooked like other discus usually are. I have a 85 gal with a breeding pair, 3 sub-adults, 5 juveniles and 3 babies (less than 2 inches). I could stick the bully in there? The breeding pair will have a private tank soon.

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[Rudustin]

Why don't you try it for a week and then put the bully back in with the others.

[LFCYNWA]

If you are positive all your water parameters are good then lights out for a few days, limited feeding, they will get to know each other and things will calm down.

[Miamiheat]

Moved the bully to other tank. The blue cobalt in question looks so much better and is no longer hiding. He looks great but still I have not seen him eat. He will stay around when others are feeding but never seen him take a bite at anything.

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[Miamiheat]

They have all been under a 7 day treatment for HEX that is preventive in nature: as I have mixed fish from a few different sources in the last 3-4 months I thought I'd treat them all as a big quarantine.

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[Rudustin]

Okay that sounds better. Glad to help. Let us know how it goes.

[Miamiheat]

Still don't see him eat. Saw something on his face. Pic to follow.

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[Miamiheat]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/20/tu8adava.jpg

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[Miamiheat]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/20/y6yju9u8.jpg

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[Miamiheat]

Rest of the body is fine

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[Rudustin]

Hmmm! Pic is not clear but it looks like an abrasion. Try fb with garlic juice. He might eat.


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[Miamiheat]

Just a quick update. after 7 weeks i still had not seen this fish eat. He remained stressed since i got it from the LFS. A few day ago i put it in another tank with 4 small discus to see if he got better but no it did not.
Yesterday I went drastic and changed things around, I removed all fish from my 55 gal tank, put this fish and one other adult exactly at the same time, acclimated them for a good 40 min (they could see each other from each individual plastic bag), then i released them. After 30 min i added all my very small and juveniles (8 or 9 fish) leaving them to acclimate for a good 30 minutes. As soon as all were free swimming i threw in some pellets and guess what: i saw my blue cobalt eat for the first time. He has been looking well from that point only.

[Rudustin]

Hooray!!!!


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[miwu]

Wonderful to hear. Great job helping him!


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