Should I Start Small??

[Garofalo79]

So for the last 3 months or so, I have been researching on this forum for my dream discus tank. I've never kept discus before but I have always wanted to. I am finishing my basement and I want to build into the wall either a 180g or a 240g. But I am wondering if I should start out so big.

I currently have a 55g African Cichlid tank that I could convert to a discus tank to get my feet wet. Thinking 6 adult discus, bare tank except for some substrate. 50% WC twice a week, age the water. Then after 6-12 months, start building out my dream tank.

Just looking for opinions on this one- should I start out with the 55g to get to know discus and learning to care for them? Or should I just go big right away?

Thanks in advance.

[sholvey]

I personally would start small and then go big. Are you planning on going with juvies or adults?

[GeauxDiscus]

I'd say the opposite: Go with the 240 right away. You need to learn how to manage a large tank - that's half of your learning curve. Discus are easy: If you are planning adults, then just change 50% of the water twice a week, and ditch the substrate. The tank will be easy to maintain as long as you have no substrate and minimal decorations to get in the way of cleaning. You also need to make SURE you have enough storage to stage 120 gallons (if you go the 240 route). I would suggest using your 55 gallon as a quarantine tank. (I use a 50.) But I can't say it enough - you'll struggle if you try to add substrate of any kind if you are just starting with discus. Good luck!!

[Skip]

if you can't manage a 55 g.. you can't manage a 240.. you need to learn how to work with discus themselves.. not the tank.. no need to drop that $$$$ when you find out discus ain't really all you thought it would be..

[joanstone]

I think it's kind of two separate questions. Are you really questioning whether you want discus or whether you want a big built in tank? I'd probably work with what you've got for a tank while you're potentially planning your big built in tank. If you decide discus aren't for you, that doesn't necessarily mean you still wouldn't want a big built in tank, right?

[sholvey]

Also, I feel that if that 240 is going in the wall, it will be a planted display tank. I personally wouldn't cut a hole in my wall to not have it planted with some big A$$ discus in it. But I could be wrong maybe he/she will disclose that. I agree with skip, that's a lot of money to put into it to find it's a bust.

[Garofalo79]

I'd do a 55g to a certain degree to find out if discus are for me and if they are, then to get my first few mistakes out of the way so they aren't as costly. I guess it's a bit psychological too- just to be more confident when I start to build out the big display tank. I'm going to do a great deal of research on here and post a ton of questions when building out the big one but that definitely doesn't mean it will save me from all mistakes nor does starting with a 55g. But I think experience is the best teacher and starting small and researching here could give me the foundation for a very successful 240g display tank.

[GeauxDiscus]

In my opinion, no matter how long you keep a 55 gallon tank, it's never going to prepare you for a 180 or 240 gallon tank. Also, just because you build the tank doesn't mean you have to fully stock it yet. It sounded from your original post that you wanted to build in the big tank as you finish your basement. To me, if you know you want the big tank anyway, then get your six starter discus for your 55 gallon while you're cycling your big tank. Once the big tank is cycled, you can move the discus to the big tank and see how it goes - or don't. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to get more discus until you know it's going well. And at least you'll be learning how to deal with both the discus and the larger tank in the meantime.

[Garofalo79]

I guess if I found discus weren't for me, I would still do a 240g but saltwater and that could change the whole set up- background, substrate, water change system, etc. If I went with a 240g discus set up I'm not sure how well that could be transformed into a saltwater set up and if it isn't relatively easy then there's money lost.

[joanstone]

I went from a saltwater 220 to a freshwater 220, no problem. I think the only thing that might be costly is if you spend a lot on a background that couldn't be used for saltwater, so I wouldn't do that until you were set on what you're doing (or not at all, I use fabric). Substrate would be different, but you're either going BB or a thin layer of PFS for discus most likely and the cost for that is nothing or negligible. I'm not sure what water change system you're referring to, but I don't do anything different-saltwater vs fresh. Going salt to fresh has more potential for money lost, the other way around not so much, IMO.

[GeauxDiscus]

Going salt to fresh has more potential for money lost, the other way around not so much, IMO.

Agreed.

[Elliots]

Go with the 240 and few, 5-6 Discus. A planted tank is not that hard with Discus just make sure you have plants that are OK with Discus temps. Just as you are starting out with only a few Discus start out with only a few plants. I suggest 5-6 Sword plants depending on their size that way you will not have stuff accumulating around the plants that is hard to remove.

[Tankster]

Going salt to fresh has more potential for money lost, the other way around not so much, IMO.
+30,000

[Tankster]

I can share one nugget I have learned from this group. Just for background - I am starting with a 240g and in a very slow build process at the moment.

You will either want to buy adult discus if you are going planted OR start with 3" and grow out in your BB 55. Move to the big tank once they reach 5".

[OC Discus]

I would start with the 55g. There is a learning curve to keeping discus. In the process, some fish may be lost or stunted. Mistakes will be far less costly in a 55g.

Also, before using the 55g I would sterilize it. Remove all substrate and media from filters. Add 2 cups of bleach and let it run overnight. Soak heaters and decorations, thermometers, nets, everything that goes into the tanks for a couple of hours in a bleach solution (1/4 cup in 5 gal bucket).

Drain the tank which will sterilize your hose. Refill and add dechlorinator. Let it run overnight again (several hours). Drain and repeat.

Rinse the accessories in hot water then soak in dechlorinator (1 cap of prime in 5 gal bucket) for a couple of hours. Replace all filter media (some bio media can be bleached with the other stuff, sponge will breakdown if soaked too long in bleach, but it can be boiled for an hour or microwaved for a very short time- research the time on this).

Discus are very susceptible to common parasites that are brought over from other types of fish.

You will need to cycle the new tank with daily 50% water changes using prime, or seed the filters with beneficial bacteria. I use Tetra Safe Start just because media from other tanks may have parasites and a fishless cycle takes weeks to do.

Good luck.

[Skip]

Discus are very susceptible to common parasites that are brought over from other types of fish.


true.. but bugs from salt water won't affect freshwater.. ie. its super safe to feed live adult brine shrimp to discus.. where as some might be more cautious with live freshwater worms

[OC Discus]

true.. but bugs from salt water won't affect freshwater.. ie. its super safe to feed live adult brine shrimp to discus.. where as some might be more cautious with live freshwater worms

That's good to know. Maybe a new food source is in store for my bunch. Do you raise your own feeder shrimp?

[Skip]

That's good to know. Maybe a new food source is in store for my bunch. Do you raise your own feeder shrimp?

nope.. too hard..

i buy them from LFS.. pour them in a net.. then get a spoon and ration them out.. discus go NUTS!!

[Garofalo79]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. After meeting with a contractor tonight for my basement I feel much better about putting in the semi auto wc system or at least the drainage part. So I'm going to start out with the 240g but maybe do it slowly- 6 discus, then driftwood, then a few plants, then some more discus, and finally some tankmates. I also find starting with a rough draft and building slowly ends up with a better end product as ideas change along the way once you see something in person everyday.

[Elliots]

I would get the driftwood immediately because many fish like to hide next to it or inside it. It is still easy to clean your tank if you decide on bare bottom.

[Skip]

I would get the driftwood immediately because many fish like to hide next to it or inside it. It is still easy to clean your tank if you decide on bare bottom.

discus will hide.. if you give them place to hide.. :)

[BODYDUB]

I always thought sick or stressed discus would hide and that a heatly discus should be out and about searching for food..................

[OC Discus]

I'm considering adding a piece of driftwood to my now bb tank after eradicating disease by salt dips and sterilization. What are the pros and cons of a piece of real driftwood now? Considering a piece of the heavy African wood from Petsmart- Manzenita?

Sorry to highjack the thread. Answer may apply to op too.

[aquadon2222]

Go with the 240 and few, 5-6 Discus. A planted tank is not that hard with Discus just make sure you have plants that are OK with Discus temps. Just as you are starting out with only a few Discus start out with only a few plants. I suggest 5-6 Sword plants depending on their size that way you will not have stuff accumulating around the plants that is hard to remove.

Yes.

[pvanderweit]

I find that it is easier to keep water chemistry with a larger volume of water.

[paulW]

I find that it is easier to keep water chemistry with a larger volume of water.

I agree. The OP has keep Africans, so he knows the basics on fish keeping.
If the OP gets a drain drilled in his 240 and has a water aging container and pump, the big tank will probably be easier to maintain than the 55s.
If he decides he doesn't like discus, the 240 becomes an African tank.
Seems like a 240 would be a better growout tank for discus than a 55, but I must confess that I'm not a discus expert. For other fish, the larger the tank, generally the better the growout. I'm assuming the discus are big enough to find their food in the 240, of course.

[Tankster]

I agree. The OP has keep Africans, so he knows the basics on fish keeping.
If the OP gets a drain drilled in his 240 and has a water aging container and pump, the big tank will probably be easier to maintain than the 55s.
If he decides he doesn't like discus, the 240 becomes an African tank.
Seems like a 240 would be a better grow-out tank for discus than a 55, but I must confess that I'm not a discus expert. For other fish, the larger the tank, generally the better the grow-out. I'm assuming the discus are big enough to find their food in the 240, of course.

The are many potential problems trying to grow out discus in a 240 gallon planted tank. One of the biggest logistical problems is water changes. You HAVE to do daily 100% water changes while growing out discus if you want them to reach full potential. Some people do 50% morning and 50% night and some do 90% once a day.
He will be feeding these guys up to 7 times a day with a high protein diet which will foul the water. One of the quickest ways to stunt your fish and create an environment for stress and disease is to have dirty water. This is one of the many reasons it is suggested they be grown out in smaller bare bottom tanks. Easier to clean and easier on the wallet when the water bill comes.

[Miamiheat]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. After meeting with a contractor tonight for my basement I feel much better about putting in the semi auto wc system or at least the drainage part. So I'm going to start out with the 240g but maybe do it slowly- 6 discus, then driftwood, then a few plants, then some more discus, and finally some tankmates. I also find starting with a rough draft and building slowly ends up with a better end product as ideas change along the way once you see something in person everyday.

Hello, I am a beginner myself, but have over 20 discus and 7 tanks now… One of the reasons is a good few adults decided to pair up (2 new pairs last week!), and then they decide to chase the others around, and you end up stressed :) also they will lay eggs, and another fish will come and try to eat the eggs… or they will eat them because they are stressed by other fish. So big discus easy for water changes as they don't need so many but have a plan to deal with behaviour (6 fish in a big tank should be fine, in a 55G I don't know). Or just prepare yourself mentally=> I bet the first reaction when your first pair will form and starts spawning etc will be joy an excitement… But then you will want to move them to their private suite :)) unless you don't care about that detail and let them be.
That is my personal experience.

[paulW]

The are many potential problems trying to grow out discus in a 240 gallon planted tank. One of the biggest logistical problems is water changes. You HAVE to do daily 100% water changes while growing out discus if you want them to reach full potential. Some people do 50% morning and 50% night and some do 90% once a day.
He will be feeding these guys up to 7 times a day with a high protein diet which will foul the water. One of the quickest ways to stunt your fish and create an environment for stress and disease is to have dirty water. This is one of the many reasons it is suggested they be grown out in smaller bare bottom tanks. Easier to clean and easier on the wallet when the water bill comes.

The original post doesn't mention a planted 240 gallon.
I was assuming bare 240 vs bare 55.
The bare 240 will be easier.
Think about it.. what's better for the discus?
A 30 gallon water change daily in a 55 or a 30 gallon change daily in a 240?
The 240 is better. And if he's wiling to do a 70-120 change on the 240, that's even better.
Fish just grow better/faster in a larger growout tank.
And seriously, if he's constrained by the expense of a water bill, he probably shouldn't keep discus to begin with.

[Tankster]

Hi Paul,

What's better for growing out discus is pristine water and daily 100% water changes. Your looking at 67,200 gallons of water down the drain over 10 months. People with money have money because they don't flush it down the toilet but that's not the point here. Of course he can afford the water/sewer bill, water is cheap but why bother wasting all that water when there is a better and proven way of growing out discus?
If you peruse some of the grow out threads here (use the search feature up top) you will see growth is not constrained using a 55 gallon tank. If you start out with 10, 3" fish you will most likely cull down to between 5 and 7 fish which is perfectly acceptable in a bb 55g grow out tank. Your big tank will be cycled and settled in, ready to accept your first batch of 5" to 6" discus. Rinse and repeat with your next batch until you max out your display tank.

[paulW]

Hi Paul,

What's better for growing out discus is pristine water and daily 100% water changes. Your looking at 67,200 gallons of water down the drain over 10 months. People with money have money because they don't flush it down the toilet but that's not the point here. Of course he can afford the water/sewer bill, water is cheap but why bother wasting all that water when there is a better and proven way of growing out discus?
If you peruse some of the grow out threads here (use the search feature up top) you will see growth is not constrained using a 55 gallon tank. If you start out with 10, 3" fish you will most likely cull down to between 5 and 7 fish which is perfectly acceptable in a bb 55g grow out tank. Your big tank will be cycled and settled in, ready to accept your first batch of 5" to 6" discus. Rinse and repeat with your next batch until you max out your display tank.

I'm going to just respectfully disagree. That's ok.
Sure, it's proven that you can do 5-7 discus in a 55 gallon.
That same 5-7 fish in a 240 gallon will grow better (or at least as good), even with the same amount of water being changed per day.
Sure, fish love pristine water.
In a 240 gallon, there's about 4 times the water volume to dilute the wastes and keep the water pristine.
In other words, those same 5-7 fish in a 240 gallon don't need 100% daily water change that they MIGHT need in the 55 gallon.

Everyone has probably seen this first hand.. even with non-discus.
Throw about 20 baby swordtails into a 10 gallon tank. Give them 100% daily water changes.
Now put 20 of their siblings into a 75 gallon, and change 10 gallons per day. Keep everything else the same.
The fry in the 75 gallon will grow faster. But of course, you can still grow out swordtails in a 10g.. nothing wrong with that.

But I do agree with your point that a 240 isn't necessary.. the 55 is proven.