High nitrite in discus tank

[outdoorworld_70]

I have a serious problem i've been running a 180 gallon for 3 weeks now and my nitrite levels are over 5.0ppm on the api test kit. I have 16 discus which range from the size of a dollar to 2.5 inches. They seem to be very healthy, all there colours are bright and are eating regularly, i've done a 50% water change and added prime and the nitrite is still very high. Any help is much appreciated thanks

[DonMD]

It appears that your filter is cycling, and needs to go another couple weeks, probably, until it's cycled. During that time, daily water changes are needed, and dosing with Prime according to instructions on the bottle to control excess nitrites. I think because your fish are on the small side, and you have such a large volume of water, you will probably be OK, as long as you do the water changes and keep dosing. Just my opinion. Good luck.

[MKD]

is your tank cycled? if it's a new 180G tank started 3 weeks ago, i don't think it's cycled yet unless you use those instant bacterial products. i would do more wc and maybe dailey until it's fully cycled.

[Shane_]

The solution to pollution is dilution. Keep doing daily 50% changes. :) But you should look into any excess food, dead fish, dirty filter media too.

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[BODYDUB]

Whoa, your tank is still cycling if it's only three weeks old. I would throw in some tetra safe start ASAP, do daily large water changes and monitor you water parameters closely. Your water bill is gonna be up there if you keep your w\c's to a T till you tank is cycled. You basically have two options, a high water bill or lose all of your fish..........

[OC Discus]

Tetra Safe Start is good, but pour it directly into your filters "after" a large water change. Don't wipe down the glass until the parameters get lower because the beneficial bacteria will be settling on the glass. Once your levels are good you can wipe everything down.

[outdoorworld_70]

thanks for all the replies but if i'm doing daily 50% water changes wont i be killing all of the beneficial bacteria that has been building up

[Shane_]

You will just be prolonging their build up.

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[outdoorworld_70]

okay so doing 50% water changes daily using prime should lower the nitrites

[Shane_]

Yup. Keep an eye out for the cause of it. Im assuming its just due to a new tank cycle but just double check that your cleaning up uneaten food, waste, etc during each wc.

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[OC Discus]

Outdoor,

Nitrite of 5 is at the toxic point. I can tell you what I would do in your situation, since you already have the fish in the tank to keep from losing them:

1) Purchase Enough Tetra Safe start to dose the whole tank (this is beneficial bacteria- with bio spira- this brand only), and Prime if you don't have it- ASAP
2) Remove as much water as you possibly can- 80-90%
3) Pour the Tetra Safe start into your filters (sponge part)- divide the dose between them
4) Refill with heated water mixed with a double dose of prime
5) Check parameters daily.
6) Skip next day water change and no food until nitrite is 0
7) When ammonia and nitrate are 0 for three days, the tank is cycled. Fasting 2-3 days will not hurt the fish
8) Water changes must correspond to the amount of food- If feeding heavily- 4-6 times a day, daily wc will be necessary. If feeding less, less wc may work
9) If growing juveniles, which you are, you want to feed at least 3 times a day- but don't put in so much it gets sucked into the filters. Put in a little, when its gone, put in a little more, several times a day.
10) Rinse filter media (pre-filter floss) at least every couple of days.

[GeauxDiscus]

Just to add to the other replies: I'm assuming you're using a canister filter that has room to hold a lot of bio-filtration. Make sure you have a lot of ceramic bio-material in your filter. It will help build your bio-filter. If you aren't using a canister filter, then you should have two or three large sponge filters for that size tank. Changing water will NOT remove nitrifying bacteria from your tank - those bacteria live on surfaces, such as your bio-matter or sponge and the sides of your tank and any decorations. Good luck.

[outdoorworld_70]

okay thanks tomorrow i will do a 80% percent water change and i'll buy the tetra safe start. i have a eheim 2260 running with the ceramic beads, eheim bio media and a sponge and i have a 403 running with seachem matrix and carbon

[GeauxDiscus]

Prime is a miracle product. As long as you are doing big water changes and letting Prime remove the rest, you'll be fine.

[OC Discus]

How do you do your water changes? If Nitrite is 5 now, I would do the 80-90% wc tonight. Don't feed. Test tomorrow before adding the safe start. If nitrite is over 1, do another 80-90% wc before adding the tss. It is not designed to pull it down that far. Anything over 1 needs to be reduced before adding the tss. Good time to put clean floss in before adding if it is dirty. Keep us posted.

[outdoorworld_70]

i have been using the prime for a few days now and it doesn't seem to be working

[OC Discus]

It doesn't remove the nitrite, it just makes it non toxic for 24 hours. It still may test positive. A standard dose may not neutralize it at that level.

[GeauxDiscus]

Nitrite will still register when you use Prime, but the Prime will detoxify it. But it can only detoxify so much. That's why you need to be doing the large daily water changes until your cycle completes. But I would NOT stop using the Prime, unless you want your fish to die.

[outdoorworld_70]

okay will do i will definitely keep you posted

[outdoorworld_70]

How about if i transfer the discus to my 55 gallon with RO water and let them stay in there until the 180 is cycled by its self and the nitrites are zero or should i just leave them in the 180 and do big water changes until it drops

[GeauxDiscus]

If your 55 is well established/cycled, you could move them. Plus, reducing the bio-load in your 180 would be a good thing. However, you still need some fish in your 180 to keep the cycle going. (Or you could manually add pure household ammonia and do a fishless cycle.) Do you have other fish in the 80? Once your 180 is cycled for a certain load of fish, you'd want to move your discus back slowly.

By the way, no one else has brought this up, so just wanted to make sure you understand that if you are trying to grow out juvenile discus, you'll need to continue daily (or at LEAST every other day) water changes to get any growth out of them. Otherwise, they will sit at 2.5 inches indefinitely. The reason is that discus are very sensitive to water quality, so the water needs to be pristine for them to grow. You may already know this, but if not, hope it helps.

[outdoorworld_70]

okay i have other fish in the 180 a few clowns loaches, danios, roseline barbs and a few others and they seem to be thriving good. What % of water should i change when growing out the discus

[OC Discus]

If you add the tss tomorrow after a 90% wc your tank will be cycled. Then you just keep doing the 50% daily wc you are doing now.

Moving all the non discus to the 55g would lower the bio load.

[GeauxDiscus]

Normally 50% WC per day to grow out juvies.

[outdoorworld_70]

okay i did a 80% water change today and went out to buy the tss, i added prime and tss, 0.25 nitrite a few hours later

[OC Discus]

That is good. Don't feed for 24 hours and see if it will drop to 0. If not, do another 80% tomorrow and you should be good. Feed lightly for a few days and monitor to keep it at 0. The tss should start working immediately. Don't clean the sponges or filters for at least a week or so until the bacteria are colonized. I wouldn't wipe the glass for about a week either, because beneficial bacteria will attach to all tank surfaces and consume the ammonia and nitrite. Keep us posted.

[outdoorworld_70]

Will do thanks for getting back to me appreciate all the info ill let you know how it is tomorrow

[outdoorworld_70]

okay so i just checked my nitrite and its at 1.00 so im going to do another wc and add the tss

[OC Discus]

Will this be the first or second dose? If the floss is dirty it would be good to clean or change it before adding tss.


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[OC Discus]

With that many young fish you will need to do 50% daily water change for them to grow properly, especially if feeding heavily as is recommended for young fish- 5-6 feedings per day.


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[outdoorworld_70]

By floss do you mean filter sponge, this is the second does of tss should i add it and should i do an 80% wc

[OC Discus]

In the canisters with bio rings or balls the floss is the stuff that keeps debris from getting in that. The floss/sponge needs to be kept clean by rinsing in a bucket of tank water at least weekly. If they are really dirty rinsing them now is a good idea. Since the nitrite is up again you could add another dose of tss to the ceramic media inside the canisters, or just pour it in the rank after another 80% wc.


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[outdoorworld_70]

okay i did the 80% wc and the nitrite is at .25 and i checked ammonia and its at 0.50

[OC Discus]

was that test after the wc? And after 2nd dose of tss?

You may want to go ahead and move the non discus to the other tank to reduce the load until it is fully cycled. Ammonia indicates it is still cycling.

Keep feeding at a minimum for a couple of days and do daily wc until ammonia and nitrite are 0.

[outdoorworld_70]

yes i did a test before and after the wc and tss to see how much it dropped. should i do 50% percent wc daily or more then that

[OC Discus]

If you are doing it daily and using prime you should be safe with 50%. If you miss a day you'll need to keep an eye on the nitrite and ammonia. If they start rising, do another 80-90%.

How does your filter media look? You can scoop out a couple of gallons of tank water to rinse it in a 5 g bucket if it is looking bad, or go ahead and change it. Filters get dirty pretty fast in discus tanks.

[brewmaster15]

Guys,
I don't want to put out conflicting advice here, but I would not handle this by relying on chemicals or additives since the fish tank has fish in it.

My question is this...

180 gallon for 3 weeks now and my nitrite levels are over 5.0ppm on the api test kit. I have 16 discus which range from the size of a dollar to 2.5 inches. Thats a ton of water for the numbers of fish and size of fish and you are reading nitrite at week 3 That doesn't seem right. You many want to really look closely at if you are getting false positives....alot of times a specific kit is required to test the water when you use a water conditioner...check with the MFG how you should test.

Next.. instead of relying on chemicals and additives... just do alot of water changes..it will take longer to cycle the tank..but you have fish in it, Cycling with Discus in the tank is risky...Better to take forever cycling and rely on water changes. That also gives you the added benefit of being able to feed these juvies well and give them the influx of clean water so they grow well.

Just a suggestion.

-al

[OC Discus]

I agree with Al. The "best" solution all around is daily water changes- 50%-90%. Just be careful if you miss more than one, your water can get toxic fast.

[OC Discus]

Below is a quote from Toni who is known for successfully raising jumbo fish.

2 Secrets you will notice are: 1) Multiple feedings every day, 2) Multiple water changes every day

You might call this program the "gold standard" for raising discus. At a minimum, the goal for the first year is to feed as much as they can eat and remove the waste through large water changes every day. Each person will have varying degrees of success measuring up to this standard.

Good luck

I'll do my best to give you all my secrets to success.

Water - Idaho tap, pulled from aquifers in basalt

pH from tap - 7.8+
pH aged 24h - 7.8+
Nitrates - 0.5 - 5.4ppm depending on the time of year (heavy agricultural community out here)
Chlorine (Cl2) - 0.29 - 0.46 Higher during summer months
Total THM's - 4.3 year round

I don't age my tap water since there is virtually no change in pH over a 24 hour period. I use a double dose of Safe during the summer months. Nitrates aren't generally a problem, but are always present in the tap water at low levels.

Discus Foods given daily
Discus Flake food from various makers (OSI, etc)
Spirulina Flakes
Prime Reef Flakes
Al's FDBW
San Fransisco Bay Brand Frozen Beefheart

Foods given sporadically
Frozen Spirulina cubes (good laxative)
Hikari Frozen Bloodworm cubes (with "sticks" of icky stuff they won't eat included in them)
Prime Nutrition Discus cubes (too messy!)

So here's how a typical day looked for the first 8 months of growing out my Hans discus last year:

Morning feeding - Breakfast of champions (about 2 tsps of flake mix)

Mid-morning feeding - Frozen Beefheart, 2 cubes to start (went up to 4 per feeding as they grew)

Mid-morning Water Change - 60% minimum change, often more than that

Noon feeding - 3 or more Al's FDBW (they each ate a whole one by themselves by the time they were 5")

Mid-afternoon feeding - Frozen Beefheart, 2 cubes

Dinner - Al's FDBW, 3 or more cubes depending on how fast they ate it

Pre-water change snack - Frozen Beefheart, 2 cubes

9PM Water Change - 90%

9:30 Bedtime Snack - 2 Al's FDBW cubes and lights out at 10pm

My tank was a 54g Pentagonal tank with a dark blue background, beige sand, light plants for the first month (then NO plants!) one large driftwood stump.

Filtration:
Marineland canister filter
1 Sponge filter - largest I could find

Tankmates:
2 Albino Cories

When I upgraded to my 115g tank the specs were as follows

Filtration:
Simple 40gal sump using poret foam and pump to circulate water @6x per hour

1/2" Sand
Same driftwood stump, 2 sword plants in pots

Tankmates:
2 Albino Cories
3 Sterbai Cories
25+ Cardinal Tetras

Water Changes went to one 90% change per day in the big tank, but feedings remained the same.

Ok, that's pretty much all I did for them. No magic pills at all. I still do my daily huge water changes during the summer when nitrates are higher in my tap water, and every other day 90% during the other 9 months of the year.

I don't have pleco's, I don't obsess about cleaning my filters (every few weeks) but I DO go nuts about cleaning the glass, heaters driftwood! That stuff gets covered in high protein discus slime and it just feels like a breeding ground for bad bacteria to me. Driftwood gets pulled out and hosed off every Sunday. All surfaces get the mag-float treatment at every water change and the sides, heaters, etc get a super duper cleaning on Sundays.

Ohhhhh, I have MTS in my tank. They drive me nuts these days but are a very handy barometer of how much you overfeed your fish. If you're feeding too much they multiply like rabbits and cover every surface in search of food. LOL



Toni
Vice President - NADA
150g - 11 discus, 6 cory's, 20+ Cardinals, 5 Neons, 4 GBR for now... give it a month and it'll change!

[outdoorworld_70]

Thanks for all the info really appreciate the help, the filter media looks good ill give it a rinse in a bucket of tank water. I will keep up with the daily water changes and keep you posted
Thanks

[outdoorworld_70]

good news the nitrite and ammonia are at zero. the discus are doing great thanks for all the help

[BODYDUB]

Excellent..................

[sholvey]

Good to see your levels are down. I chimed in a little late, but the best way is to do heavy water changes w/o adding chemicals like Al and some others said. My question is, are you new to fish keeping? I would think if you have been in the hobby awhile, you would know it takes anywhere on average of 4+ weeks to cycle a tank.

[outdoorworld_70]

i'm not that new to fish keeping just never cycled a 180 before

[sholvey]

i'm not that new to fish keeping just never cycled a 180 before

Well glad to see you have it under control. Time wise, a 180 is no different than cycling a 20. lol Good luck raising the discus and post some pics of them as they grow out.

[outdoorworld_70]

I just solved my nitrite problem and i just noticed after a feeding that 7 or 8 discus have a slight case of ick and are scratching themselves on plants and drift wood.
question #1 should i treat the whole tank with quick cure and remove the carbon? i have live plants, gravel, and tetras( clown loaches, roseline barbs, pleco's etc) or should i try salt?
question # 2 should i quarantine the discus in a hospital tank which i'm doing as we speak and just treat them in there?
What do you guys think? i really don't want the ick to get worse and i have raised the temp from 85 to 88 and have shut the lights off
Thanks

[sholvey]

I would put them in a QT, keep the tank temp around 86. I personally never liked quick cure and have used copper sulfate, it seems to work better IMO. If you treat the tank with plants, the treatment may harm the plants. How big are your discus again?

[outdoorworld_70]

okay the discus range between 2 inch to 3

[OC Discus]

Great!


good news the nitrite and ammonia are at zero. the discus are doing great thanks for all the help

[OC Discus]

You might get better help by posting a new thread in the disease section and filling out the questionnaire.


I just solved my nitrite problem and i just noticed after a feeding that 7 or 8 discus have a slight case of ick and are scratching themselves on plants and drift wood.
question #1 should i treat the whole tank with quick cure and remove the carbon? i have live plants, gravel, and tetras( clown loaches, roseline barbs, pleco's etc) or should i try salt?
question # 2 should i quarantine the discus in a hospital tank which i'm doing as we speak and just treat them in there?
What do you guys think? i really don't want the ick to get worse and i have raised the temp from 85 to 88 and have shut the lights off
Thanks

[outdoorworld_70]

ok thanks will do right now

[outdoorworld_70]

i'm stuck how do you make a new thread? sorry new to the site

[GeauxDiscus]

Go to the Disease/Sickness section. There will be a blue button at the top of the page that says "Post New Thread".