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View Full Version : New discus/tank preparation/past problems



Mulletpullet
03-16-2014, 08:10 PM
As the title says I have had some past problems. I set up my 125 gal tank over 6 months ago with the intent of a community tank and down the road adding some discus. I had a nice little community tank going. Neons tetras, denisen barbs, cory cats, maybe something else I don't recall. Hang on back filter/Canister filter I was testing my levels, and everything had been going fine. I was slowly adding fish from my local fish store. I did a water change and lost most my fish within a couple hours. I attributed it to lack of de-chlorination, perhaps even some water temperature control, and even remotely fine air bubbles introduced during the water change. I added some more fish, and the next water change I did de-chlorinate properly, and I kept a watchful eye on temperature. Shortly afterward (next week or two following) I had all the fish die, maybe 6 at the time. I really started thinking the air bubbles caused the problem as all my testing and everything really seemed on the up and up. I thought a little about degassing. But all this seemed like a stretch.

fast forward a month of having an empty tank and I add some plants watersprite/wisteria some snails and also add a pleco, a chinese algea eater, and two cories. I am using a spare 55 gallon in the stand as a holding tank of water to degass and de-chlorinate for water changes. I lose the pleco and the algea eater in the next few weeks.

After this out of frustration I pretty much ignore the aquarium for a month or so, sporadically adding food so the cories don't die which was surprising because I would often forget. I start to see little wiggly worms that a biologist I know called detritus worms. They are coming up near the edge of the water. From doing research online a determine this to be from a lack of oxygen in the gravel and no predators to eat them allowing them to come to the surface for oxygen. Snail population is exploding. None of this is making much sense to me as I am barely trickling in food.

Ammonia 0, nitrites, 0, nitrates 20. Hardness of water isn't seeming out of the ordinary, PH is around 6.0-6.5.

My local breeder had a batch of juvenile discus that he was selling, and they were all spoken for with the exception of few we could buy, so I jumped on the deal not knowing when or if he will continue to breed them. His have always looked beautiful. He's actually my old 8th grade biology teacher, and he seems to know his stuff.

I set up a spare 30 gallon aquarium, bare bottom, to keep the discus in. But I would like to eventually correct the issues I am having with fish die-off in my main tank.

My breeder thought it was just a water quality issue, but the levels all seem normal. And with two small cories it doesn't seem like the quality should be going that crazy. He said it is possible, although he didn't seem to think likely, that there could have been something else introduced into the aquarium. Something like aluminum or some other harmful substance that we're not thinking of. The aquarium was used, and I am not sure what the previous owner kept in it. I had the impression fish, because everything sold with it was fish related, but I suppose it's possible he kept lizards or something.

So my breeder thought water changes like normal, maybe add some hardy fish to make sure I get a proper cycle, and use a combination of Prime and Carbon temporarily to try to remove any potential contaminants.

I thought I would see what you experts say about the matter.

Thank you very much.

OC Discus
03-16-2014, 09:22 PM
Sounds like new tank syndrome. I had the same experience in my first tank. When you add fish to a new tank, they produce ammonia from their waste that is toxic and will kill the fish. Over time, beneficial bacteria will colonize and consume the ammonia, converting it to Nitrite. The Nitrite can also be toxic and kill the fish. Eventually, bacteria will colonize that consume the nitrite and convert it to nitrate. Nitrate is less toxic, but will build up over time and become toxic.

Your initial tank load was too much to cycle the tank. After most of the fish died off, the load was lessened, allowing the cories to live and the levels to go back to normal.

Before adding discus to the large tank, you need to remove all the contents and sterilize it. Remove all fish, plants, substrate, decorations and filter media and add 2 cups of bleach to the tank. Let it run over night through the filters then drain the tank. Refill with dechlorinated water (double dose of prime), wipe down all surfaces, let run for a few hours, then drain and refill again. This will kill any of the common parasites and diseases that afflict discus.

Next, you have to cycle the tank before adding discus. I would not recommend mixing species at this point. Either do a fishless cycle using methods on sd (do a search for fishless cycle), or add tetra safestart with bio spira to the tank at the time you add your discus.

Before buying discus, read up on topics like quarantine, water changes, feeding, raising juvenile vs adult discus, planted vs bare bottom tanks, etc in the beginner section. This will help you avoid many diseases and problems with your fish.

Good luck and welcome to sd.

tonytheboss1
03-16-2014, 09:46 PM
Agree w/ OC. Start from scratch. A total breakdown & thorough sanitizing of the tank is in order. Bio-spira is an excellent product when used properly. You don't want to overwhelm a 'new cycle'. Bacteria will eventually build up to sustain a full compliment of fish. Determine whether you're gonna start with juvies & grow them out or adults that will be ready for the show tank right after quarantine. Take your time, continue to research both here & that ancient forum - 'books'. Best of luck & welcome. "T"

Mulletpullet
03-16-2014, 11:42 PM
I am familiar with a fishless cycle. It is what I did the first time around. I should have mentioned that community tank was going well for about 2 months. So I should have been well past the cycle. But starting fresh does have an appeal. Now, currently I have those juveniles in a completely separate tank. When I do get the 125 sterilized and back up and running, rather than doing a fishless cycle do you see any problem with just putting the filtration from the 30 gal onto the 125 and letting the bacteria from that do the work? By then that should have plenty of bacteria in it I would think?

OC Discus
03-17-2014, 09:09 PM
A lot of people do that. But if there has ever been parasites or disease in the other tank, I would personally use Tetra Safe Start instead. It provides the beneficial bacteria without the risk of introducing parasites and disease. Just my opinion and preference. I sterilized my 55 g then added my 6 discus back with Tetra Safestart. No loss of fish. Just keep a close watch on all parameters and perform frequent large water changes. I would pour the TSS into new filter media and let it run a couple of days before the first water change- unless ammonia starts to creep up.

BTW- If the filter media you are referring to was in the tank with the fish deaths, I would definitely "not" use it. Tetra Safe Start contains the patented ingredient "bio spira" which is the beneficial bacteria needed to cycle the tank. Other brands claim to do the same thing- like stress zyme- but they don't work.

Mulletpullet
03-17-2014, 10:30 PM
No, what I meant was that I have set up a 30 gallon, completely fresh setup, that is housing the 9 juveniles. And have added a brand spanking new sponge filter. That tank is getting daily water changed, and they are looking healthy and happy. They all came from the same breeder and all his tanks, and all his fish looked fantastic.

I was just saying that eventually when I move the discus to the sterilized 125 gallon, to just move the filter with them. If that would help the cycle along that way.