Ozone generators?

[LeeAberdeen]

Does anyone use them? Recommend them? The bloke I was buying my African cichlids from swore by them, reckoned they improved water quality no end, and I wondered what the view was among discus lovers? I've not heard them mentioned much on here.

I'm slightly dubious about their reliability, but other than that they seem like a good addition to the discus keeper's water-improving armoury. Or am I mistaken?

[timmy82]

Yes I find ozone good for sanitising and purifying the water. I am going to set up a system in my new place when I get set up agian. One thing it has to be difused external to the tank.

[LeeAberdeen]

Not sure if 'diffusing' is what's done by the air dryer, but if so the ones I'm looking at all have that facility. I'm looking for a simple, plug and play-type machine that connects to the water easily, probably via a single piece of silicone tubing. You American boys pay a lot less for them than here in the UK, but I still reckon they're worth the money.

[timmy82]

Not sure if 'diffusing' is what's done by the air dryer, but if so the ones I'm looking at all have that facility. I'm looking for a simple, plug and play-type machine that connects to the water easily, probably via a single piece of silicone tubing. You American boys pay a lot less for them than here in the UK, but I still reckon they're worth the money.

I'm in Australia and you need to run the ozone in a seperate tank like a sump filter. My understanding isOzone in a concerntration will leave a residuel of o3 in the enviroment that isn't very good for the fish that is why it needs to be diffused else where than inside the tank. An air drier will not perform that and normal silicon hose isn't suitable to carry o3 either I would use the harder stuff they have for planted Co2 injection.

[fredyx]

It should be injected in a reactor and neutralized with activated carbon to avoid any spill over in the tank. The amount injected should be controlled with an ORP controller (not that cheap). With ozone you oxidize any substance in the water column (good and bad ones). In any case it cannot reduce phosphate or nitrate. To summarize, it is not simple, it is not cheap, if wrongly used can be even lethal to fishes (and can affect human health if diffused without an activated carbon filter at the end).

[LeeAberdeen]

You need to have a word with these fellas then, over their "ozone-resistant silicone tubing" - http://www.ozonegenerator.com/ozone_generators/accessories/tubing_package.php

And with many of the ozone generator manufacturers whose machines I'm interested in, because they too say to connect with silicone tubing, such as this one http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/aqua-medic-ozone-300-p-9724.html?gclid=CKauj6WQor0CFa3LtAod-FgAAQ

They also say the air drier is sufficient and that you can connect the machine straight to the water, without the need for a sump? I'm even more confused now...

[fredyx]

You find some more info on this here:
http://www.epa.gov/apti/ozonehealth/population.html
Those in the first link sell also an "ozone neutralizator" http://www.ozonegenerator.com/ozone_generators/accessories/ozone_destruct.php
The trick of some systems is that they produce ozone at very low concentrations to avoid danger both to fishes and humans. Phillips has one of this systems (I've seen a LOT of this systems sold right after using them some months in Belgium).
I used myself one system produced in China that gives quite low concentration with an aireator etc... I did not see any improvement in water quality / fish health and I can assure you the ozone was quite annoying in my fish room.:mad:

Please, read 7th page of aquamedic user manual :) :http://www.aqua-medic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Ozone-Manual.pdf it explain best used with an ORP controller and explain that can be toxic for all life in aquarium.

[timmy82]

You need to have a word with these fellas then, over their "ozone-resistant silicone tubing" - http://www.ozonegenerator.com/ozone_generators/accessories/tubing_package.php

And with many of the ozone generator manufacturers whose machines I'm interested in, because they too say to connect with silicone tubing, such as this one http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/aqua-medic-ozone-300-p-9724.html?gclid=CKauj6WQor0CFa3LtAod-FgAAQ

They also say the air drier is sufficient and that you can connect the machine straight to the water, without the need for a sump? I'm even more confused now...

Well why even ask for peoples opinion or even the question if you already have the answers any way????
I am talking from my expeiriences in aquarium sure these other mobs will do and say what ever to sell their product then see where the supports is after the sale.

[fredyx]

With regards to silicone tubing, normal one get dark yellowish with ozone. The ozone resistant is different mine is green colored :D

[LeeAberdeen]

Well why even ask for peoples opinion or even the question if you already have the answers any way????
I am talking from my expeiriences in aquarium sure these other mobs will do and say what ever to sell their product then see where the supports is after the sale.

Blimey, calm down Bruce. I was merely pointing out the inconsistency, which I clarified at the end by saying "I'm even more confused now", which hardly implies 'having all the answers'.

Obviously you do have all the answers because of your experience, which clearly makes you more knowledgeable than the manufacturers (Aqua Medic are actually a very respected manufacturer, along with many of the others making the same claims). Sorry for being so confused, I'm obviously not as intelligent as you.

[Len]

Question and debate is all well and good, but keep it civil.

Lee, you were correct. Silicone IS silicone resistant and is what would be used for your project. Silicone tubing does get brittle with time and age though (nothing to do with ozone) so you may want to get heavier tubing and even replace as necessary.

[fredyx]

Blimey, calm down Bruce. I was merely pointing out the inconsistency, which I clarified at the end by saying "I'm even more confused now", which hardly implies 'having all the answers'.

Obviously you do have all the answers because of your experience, which clearly makes you more knowledgeable than the manufacturers (Aqua Medic are actually a very respected manufacturer, along with many of the others making the same claims). Sorry for being so confused, I'm obviously not as intelligent as you.

Aqua Medic is a very good brand, I'm sure that if you combine that generator with their ozone resistant skimmer and an ORP controller you have better skimming performance and better water in saltwater. In freshwater I would suggest the combination of such ozone generator-ORP controller-ozone specific reactor with activated carbon neutralizer to get best results. Cheap generators lwith airstones (or even the phillips system) I would stay away. I hope it helps. I read a lot too a couple of years ago about the subject cos I wanted to try it too:)

[timmy82]

All civil here, the only way to learn is to read and learn from peoples past and failures. I am in process of setting up a larger fish room and looking to incorperate ozone, I have used small units in past.

[LeeAberdeen]

All civil here, the only way to learn is to read and learn from peoples past and failures. I am in process of setting up a larger fish room and looking to incorperate ozone, I have used small units in past.

No problem. Well I'm interested in this one, which is a tad expensive but seems to do the job as a sort of plug and play-type option. Also comes in various sizes to suit your aquarium size needs. A respected company, too, both the manufacturers and the suppliers.

http://www.swelluk.com/aquarium/uv-sterilisers-1521/ozonisers-1523/red-sea-aquazone-plus-ozone-redox-controller-381428.html

[fredyx]

No problem. Well I'm interested in this one, which is a tad expensive but seems to do the job as a sort of plug and play-type option. Also comes in various sizes to suit your aquarium size needs. A respected company, too, both the manufacturers and the suppliers.

http://www.swelluk.com/aquarium/uv-sterilisers-1521/ozonisers-1523/red-sea-aquazone-plus-ozone-redox-controller-381428.html

That one is very nice :) with built in ORP controller the installation is a lot more neat (less cables all around) and yeah Red Sea is another reliable brand. If you finally decide to install it please give us feedback from the performance :o

[timmy82]

looks like a good unit

[LeeAberdeen]

That one is very nice :) with built in ORP controller the installation is a lot more neat (less cables all around) and yeah Red Sea is another reliable brand. If you finally decide to install it please give us feedback from the performance :o

Glad you agree. It does look like a solid bit of kit, that. It's difficult to tell without having it in front of you with the instructions and everything, but it appears to be a do-everything box with a simple connection, maybe even a straight silicone tubing job straight into the water without any other wiring needed.

[fredyx]

Glad you agree. It does look like a solid bit of kit, that. It's difficult to tell without having it in front of you with the instructions and everything, but it appears to be a do-everything box with a simple connection, maybe even a straight silicone tubing job straight into the water without any other wiring needed.

Does it come with an ozone reactor (this is one example http://www.coralvue.com/reef-octopus-or150-ozone-reactor )?
Let say you use the ozone directly with an airstone, what will happen? A high percentage of the injected O3 will not be dissolved in the water column. This O3 will go to your room freely. Since the dissolved O3 ratio will be low, the ORP controller will tell the O3 generator to continue producing O3. In some hours time what we get? A room full of O3.
The reactor has a double function, increase the O3 dissolution rate (the generator will need to produce less O3 for a given ORP reading, that means the system will last you more years) and to ensure that no poisonous O3 goes to your room.:)

[timmy82]

http://www.ozonesolutions.com/products/Ozone-Injection-Devices/MK-1078_Ozone_Compatible_Venturi_Injector

This is what i was looking at for setting up at my new property as we will be 100% on tank water.

[LeeAberdeen]

Does it come with an ozone reactor (this is one example http://www.coralvue.com/reef-octopus-or150-ozone-reactor )?
Let say you use the ozone directly with an airstone, what will happen? A high percentage of the injected O3 will not be dissolved in the water column. This O3 will go to your room freely. Since the dissolved O3 ratio will be low, the ORP controller will tell the O3 generator to continue producing O3. In some hours time what we get? A room full of O3.
The reactor has a double function, increase the O3 dissolution rate (the generator will need to produce less O3 for a given ORP reading, that means the system will last you more years) and to ensure that no poisonous O3 goes to your room.:)

No-one would be allowed to sell something that whacked a load of dangerous gas into your room, it just wouldn't happen. Just like they're not allowed to sell boilers that emit a load of carbon monoxide, or cars that put exhaust fumes back into the cabin. It's illegal.

[timmy82]

http://www.ozonesolutions.com/info/ozone-and-aquaculture

[timmy82]

No-one would be allowed to sell something that whacked a load of dangerous gas into your room, it just wouldn't happen. Just like they're not allowed to sell boilers that emit a load of carbon monoxide, or cars that put exhaust fumes back into the cabin. It's illegal.

They can it is up to the purchaser choice on the way they wish to diffuse / inject the o3 into the material being treated. There are many units on the market easily acessible from 100mg/hr units - near 1kg/hr units or more. The unit they sell will have a heap of different warnings in the manual to cover their *** it is the users reponsibility then on.
It is only deemed illegial if in breach of the EPA laws for the enviroment, You can buy a toaster and there are lables on it saying do not open electrical shock / death may occure. They still allowed to sell that and people still can get an electric shock if used or not operated in the correct manner.

[fredyx]

They can it is up to the purchaser choice on the way they wish to diffuse / inject the o3 into the material being treated. There are many units on the market easily acessible from 100mg/hr units - near 1kg/hr units or more. The unit they sell will have a heap of different warnings in the manual to cover their *** it is the users reponsibility then on.
It is only deemed illegial if in breach of the EPA laws for the enviroment, You can buy a toaster and there are lables on it saying do not open electrical shock / death may occure. They still allowed to sell that and people still can get an electric shock if used or not operated in the correct manner.

+1
There are more examples in the hobby: pressurized CO2, UVC systems.... They are safe if you use them respecting the manual's setup instructions and you respect the dosing values. i.e. you should not operate an UV bulb out of its housing and stare at it with naked eyes..... or use pressurized CO2 without needle regulator...

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[LeeAberdeen]

They can it is up to the purchaser choice on the way they wish to diffuse / inject the o3 into the material being treated. There are many units on the market easily acessible from 100mg/hr units - near 1kg/hr units or more. The unit they sell will have a heap of different warnings in the manual to cover their *** it is the users reponsibility then on.
It is only deemed illegial if in breach of the EPA laws for the enviroment, You can buy a toaster and there are lables on it saying do not open electrical shock / death may occure. They still allowed to sell that and people still can get an electric shock if used or not operated in the correct manner.

That's exactly my point, there would have to be a warning of how to use it correctly and any potential dangers highlighted. There's no relevance to the toaster point - of course they're not liable if someone does something stupid. On that basis, you'd never be allowed to sell anything electrical because death could, potentially, occur. You'd also never be allowed to get a bath in case you drowned or eat peanuts in case you choked to death. That wasn't the point being made.

[LeeAberdeen]

+1
There are more examples in the hobby: pressurized CO2, UVC systems.... They are safe if you use them respecting the manual's setup instructions and you respect the dosing values. i.e. you should not operate an UV bulb out of its housing and stare at it with naked eyes..... or use pressurized CO2 without needle regulator...

Enviado desde mi Xoom usando Tapatalk 2

Exactly, they have to warn you how to use it correctly. Your original point, though, seemed to be saying they'd let me stumble into a near-death scenario: "Let say you use the ozone directly with an airstone, what will happen? A high percentage of the injected O3 will not be dissolved in the water column. This O3 will go to your room freely. Since the dissolved O3 ratio will be low, the ORP controller will tell the O3 generator to continue producing O3. In some hours time what we get? A room full of O3." Now why would I do that if, as you say in your next post, I respect the "manual's setup instructions"? I'd have to be a bit of a cretin not to read those, wouldn't I?