Forrest Discus Quarantine

[Argentum]

Hello,

Yesterday night I received my discus shipped from Forrest with 2 FREE 200g bags of AQUAbites :D. This is the order I posted pics of in Forrest's sponsors section of the forum.

I had my 20Gal Prepared and running for some time, I did a 100% WC the day the fish were arriving and added normal Prime dose.

The fish arrived safe and sound and active relative to the long trip they had (35+ hours). The Forrest Giant blue snake skin where even flashing at each other while they were still acclimating in the bags! and had a little fight when first placed. (bad for me this means I have both males)

It was planed that I will add PP to the QT at low concentrations as a bath for the first 2 days after this long trip. However when I added PP it turned brown/yellow I tested and it turned out that it is reacting with Prime. What I filled a barrel with water to be aged (in case I decided to add PP today I wont be needing Prime). And I substituted the PP with Sera Omnipur which is a general med which contains Acriflavin so i used it t substitute for PP in killing bacteria, it also have the following:

Composition: 9-amino acridine hydrochloride 105 mg, acriflavine chloride 600 mg,
ethacridine lactate 3375 mg, malachite green oxalate 79 mg, aqua purificata ad 100 ml
Here a link for reference and usage info: https://www.sera.de/fileadmin/gbi/02170_omnipur_2011-07_INT.pdf


So My question is what do you think should I ditch the PP and continue with Sera's med.?

The second question is should I de-worm even if I don't see any worms? Can they have worms and not show any symptoms?

And for people with first hand experience with Forrest/Kenny discus did you ever deworm in Qt or later on?

Sorry For the long questions, please share your thoughts.

[Len]

Ditch BOTH. Why do you want to medicate fish that you just received without reason? QT the fish as per normal and watch them for a few weeks giving them good care.

[rickztahone]

Ditch BOTH. Why do you want to medicate fish that you just received without reason? QT the fish as per normal and watch them for a few weeks giving them good care.

I couldn't agree more. It seems you had the right idea by doing the 100% WC's and adding the normal amount of prime, but the PP just doesn't seem necessary, and in this case might do more harm than good.

[musicmarn1]

Kenny puts them through such a strict QT procedure anyway all is needed is WC - so you can watch for anything that shipping stress might bring out of the woodwork but in several shipments from him I've never seen anything. only time i got one of his fish sick was adding them too soon to fish from other sources ! completely my fault. they will be already in tip top condition no need for meds just let them recover from the stress of shipping with clean water and lots of it :D

[Argentum]

Ditch BOTH. Why do you want to medicate fish that you just received without reason? QT the fish as per normal and watch them for a few weeks giving them good care.

Actually this recommendation was made by a breeder, who is a sponsor here on SD. And for me it made sense, since the fish is most stressed when shipped and given the pathogens along the trip. So as a preventive measure it is safer to keep them in a pathogen free environment for the first two days until they settle down and then keep up with the clean water.

And regarding my second question about de-worming, personally I am not convinced with de-worming a fish except if it's confirmed that it is infested with worms.
And hence my question about if the fish can have worms but doesn't show any symptoms.

But again, I have seen posts from administrators here suggesting a full de-worming as part of the QT treatment.

[Argentum]

Kenny puts them through such a strict QT procedure anyway all is needed is WC - so you can watch for anything that shipping stress might bring out of the woodwork but in several shipments from him I've never seen anything. only time i got one of his fish sick was adding them too soon to fish from other sources ! completely my fault. they will be already in tip top condition no need for meds just let them recover from the stress of shipping with clean water and lots of it :D

I got them direct from Forrest not through Kenny. I am not living in the US

[Len]

You need to consider the source of your discus. If they were from an unknown origin or especially if they came from the wild, then yes you should treat. In your case, I don't think it;s warranted. Just watch them in QT. Also the chemicals you are comparing do different things so you're comparing apples and oranges. The end choice is of course yours, but it seems like you aren't sure of what the chemicals you have do before you put them in with your prized fish and that is a recipe for disaster.

[treemanone2003]

I got them direct from Forrest not through Kenny. I am not living in the US

If you got them from him, why not ask him ? Not that it matters in this case but I got mine from Kenny and he said, " Don't give any meds. Put in QT for six weeks and if anything happens/changes call me immediately ".

[tonytheboss1]

:bandana: I know this is after the fact but I've always been a believer of not trying to fix stuff till it's broken. If the fish aren't showing any negative signs then hold off on the meds. Considering the source, preventive medication isn't warranted. (IMHO) Just QT, W/C's & observation should be sufficient. I guess Forrest could tell you better than anyone else. "T"

[Argentum]

If you got them from him, why not ask him ? Not that it matters in this case but I got mine from Kenny and he said, " Don't give any meds. Put in QT for six weeks and if anything happens/changes call me immediately ".

Actually, the low concentration PP bath fpr first 2 days was Forrests suggestion.

I think it will be different if you get it from kenny becsuse he will have done this for you

[Len]

Actually, the low concentration PP bath fpr first 2 days was Forrests suggestion.

I think it will be different if you get it from kenny becsuse he will have done this for you


Doing a light pp treatment and substituting other chemicals are two completely different things. It doesn't sound like you really understand what you are putting in your tank. Maybe the best approach would be to pause and research what they both do and how they are supposed to be used. You meant the best for your fish, but in honesty you are only going to harm them if you continue to haphazardly throw chemicals at them without understanding what you are doing and why.

[Skip]

Listen to Len

[Argentum]

Doing a light pp treatment and substituting other chemicals are two completely different things. It doesn't sound like you really understand what you are putting in your tank. Maybe the best approach would be to pause and research what they both do and how they are supposed to be used. You meant the best for your fish, but in honesty you are only going to harm them if you continue to haphazardly throw chemicals at them without understanding what you are doing and why.

First, Thanks for all your replies I really appreciate your efforts to help.

I will remove the Med tonight (it will be second night anyway)

But on a side note and this is not to argue that I will continue to use it, although PP and Sera Omnipur ingredients act in different ways they will still serve the same purpose. PP is a highly oxidizing agent that kills everything and hence, it's broad effect in disinfecting the aquarium. However at high concentrations and depending on exposure time it can burn the fish kills and eventually cause death. So at recommended concentrations it acts as a broad disinfectant.

On the other hand Sera Omnipur is marketed as a general med for most common aquarium diseases. Its components are all antiseptics except malachite green which is a die that is important in aquaculture.

Malachite Green
Malachite green is the common name for p,p-benzylidenebis-N,N-dimethyl aniline. It was originally
developed in the 1920s as a textile dye. In its original form, it contained zinc, which is toxic to fish.
However, later variants came in a zinc-free form, making it more applicable as a therapeutant.
Malachite green has been extensively used in controlling infections due to bacteria, fungi, protozoans
and monogenetic trematodes on eggs, fry and adult fish (Herwig 1979). It is used by itself, or in
combination with salt or dimethyl sulphoxide (DMSO). Next to formalin, it is, perhaps, one of
the most important therapeutants in the aquaculture industry.

Acriflavine
Acriflavine is a mixture of 3,6-diamino-10-methylacridinium chloride and 3,6-diaminoacridine.
Known also as Trypaflavine, it has been used extensively in egg disinfection; as an antiseptic for
treating wounds, ulcers, and bacterial lesions; and in protozoan and monogenean infections.
Acriflavine is normally used as a long-term bath and is known to kill plants. It may also create
vulnerability to bacterial disease in marine fish.

Source: http://repository.seafdec.org.ph/bitstream/handle/10862/601/9718511490_p127-140.pdf?sequence=1

Therefore, in theory it would do the same thing as PP, which is disinfect the environment. However one of them can be easier on the fish than the other and this one I don't know.

Anyway, I don't like keeping my fish in meds but want to protect them. Today they are getting only 100% aged WC

[forrest]

hi All,
every ones r just having their own way to QT the fishes, AND...fishes from different place or different destination makes it different too.
for example, fishes from me..after flying a long way to the destination, some may take 10 hours or some take like 40 hours, the fishes get stressed in different level from the shipping time, "stress" makes the fishes weaker than usual. some strain with weak genetic may get sick or uncomfortable just exactly like humen being abroard and get sick after 2-3 day bcos of the local weather or enviroment. the light MED is to help prevent the fishes being attack from the local diseases with doesnt harm the local much. PP work as a "oxidiser" it help a lot on clean off all organic material and also the slime which maybe over produce by the fish while they get stressed (especially for long journey).
we ll also look it from another view, the fishes reach the destination and already been treated well, then again resend locally which is short distance, to QT with MED or not it is really up to the new owner, if the owner has a lot of different fishes in the house, my suggestion is medicate the tank during QT to prevent from Cross Contamination..

i hope i ve expressed myself in a "understandable" way in English...my apologies if this cos any misunderstanding but it is in good will to share.

[Len]

Hey there Forrest. You are very understandable and I absolutely agree that everyone has there own ways. The message I was trying to get across was that this user took the advice you offered and then put his own twist on it by substituting other chemicals and didn't have an understanding of what he was dumping in his tank BEFORE he did it and why. I think his best course of action would have been to ask you or anyone knowledgeable to explain how to do a pp treatment, including how to prepare the water for it. It may have just been a mishap on his part, but the fact that he put prime in his water led me to believe he had no experience using pp. It is fortunate that no harm was done, but can certainly serve as a lesson by considering what could have happened.

[Argentum]

Hey there Forrest. You are very understandable and I absolutely agree that everyone has there own ways. The message I was trying to get across was that this user took the advice you offered and then put his own twist on it by substituting other chemicals and didn't have an understanding of what he was dumping in his tank BEFORE he did it and why. I think his best course of action would have been to ask you or anyone knowledgeable to explain how to do a pp treatment, including how to prepare the water for it. It may have just been a mishap on his part, but the fact that he put prime in his water led me to believe he had no experience using pp. It is fortunate that no harm was done, but can certainly serve as a lesson by considering what could have happened.

You are right Len, about your assumption only the other way around. I have done PP treatments baths and dips previously on several occasions. However I am new to prime. I was using another de-chlorinating product that was compatible with PP (I still have the empty bottle I will gt its name later), or in most cases just aged water.

And concerning the other med, I have used it before for disinfection with discus and other fish, its a nice product. I just wanted to hear from others if they thoughts about which is better (apparently its not so critical as it's a preventive measure anyway). Which you and skip did and I thank you for that.

Nice Avatar BTW i like black fins against the red body, looks beautiful.

[Len]

Thanks, The black holo is more pronounced when she is spawning. Post some photos of the fish you received from Forrest. He has some nice fish and pictures are always welcome :)

[Argentum]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?113186-My-Upcoming-order-from-Forrest-(sold-out)-pQUOTE=Len;1081728]Thanks, The black holo is more pronounced when she is spawning. Post some photos of the fish you received from Forrest. He has some nice fish and pictures are always welcome :)[/QUOTE]

This thread contains all pictures of the discus I ordered from forrest.

I will post tank picd once they settle in so they show their true colors

[Argentum]

Thanks, The black holo is more pronounced when she is spawning. Post some photos of the fish you received from Forrest. He has some nice fish and pictures are always welcome :)

Here is a pic showing my favorite Rafflesia

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p634/argentumblade/DSC01982_zps425e752a.jpg (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/argentumblade/media/DSC01982_zps425e752a.jpg.html)