Bullying or normal pecking order?

[rjs2115]

I have 6 new discus from Kenny's March shipment. Now that they are settled in, I am noticing my 4" blue diamond is picking on my 4.5" tiger turq. If the tiger even comes near the blue diamond, he pecks at him and chases him away. He's really bad during feeding time. It's funny, because the tiger turq is the largest of the 6 discus.
Is this just normal pecking order being established? The turq seems to be the only one that really gets harassed.

Thanks!

[Second Hand Pat]

Yup, sounds pretty normal.

[Nick Klimkowski]

Yes that is normal, the turq is just at the bottom of the pecking order.

[Skip]

Yes that is normal, the turq is just at the bottom of the pecking order.

it sometimes changes.. esp. when the turq out grows the others!! LOL>. happened with mine

[SMB2]

Bullying or normal pecking order?

With Discus I am not sure there is a difference.
You can always feed several areas in the tank at once. I always feed the bully by hand distracting it while the others eat at the opposite end of the tank.

[bwatt]

How long does this pecking order last. It's painful for me to watch.


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[rjs2115]

my blue diamond has been harassing my tiger turq for about 2 weeks now.
The poor Turq is timid to come up for feeding time, so he doesn't get as much food. I try to give him stuff separate, while the others are eating, but he doesn't take it...or the other fish see me and go steal it.

[bwatt]

That's not what I wanted to hear.


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[bwatt]

I started out with a royal and a white faced Marlboro. Both about 3.5-4.0 inches. The white face and royal came out of the same rank at the store. The white faces kept attacking the royal. Now I bought a red pigeon blood and a fire red, both 3 inches. Now the white face is attacking the two new ones. I keep telling my wife it won't last. It is very painful though.


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[pgrhodes1]

Yes, it is painful. This is the only thing I truly hate about these fish. Wish I had known how big a problem it was, I would never have purchased them. I hate sitting on my couch relaxing, looking up at the tank, and constantly see fish attack each others. And it's not just harassment. It will continue until the runt dies. Then they will start on the next one. Not at all what I wanted. I gave away a lot of aggressive fish in the past for this reason. Tried to take the Discus back to pet store; however, they don't want them either. I've had as many as 9 in a tank and it makes no difference. They still do it.

[Dkings]

Be patient and they'll settle down eventually. All my discus harrass each other but as they've gotten older they do it with less aggression. Pecking order seems to always be re-enforced and tested. Just like children!!! Lol

[bwatt]

Thanks for the encouragement. I love these fish


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[OC Discus]

As long as you feed enough so everyone gets full at least 2-3 times a day the bullies will become less aggressive in time. They will not necessarily kill the runts. One reason they establish dominance is to scare others away from the food. When their bellies stay full the aggression declines. They learn that food is plentiful and they don't have to fight over it. This also requires good filtration and large water changes.


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[pgrhodes1]

This is such BS.....I OVER feed mine, I do 80% water changes a day, I have OVER 5 in a tank. It does not matter!! Please, will you all stop telling people this. I have done everything you people have told me to do. I have read all the BS on here until I'm blue in the face and it makes NO difference. Christ, cut the crap and get real. These fish a VERY AGGRESSIVE. If that works for you then fine. If not, don't get these fish. Simple as that.

[Skip]

rhodes.. what size are your fish..

[pgrhodes1]

I have three 4" in a 92 gal corner tank. Started with 5 but they bullied the small one until it stopped eating. then bullied the next small one until it stopped eating, now the two biggest are starting on the third one. I also have five 3" in another 47 gal tank. Of course four are attaching the small one so another cycle begins. I over feed Cobalt Discus flakes along with FDB worms in the AM followed by BIG water change. I have auto feeders which feed 3 times during the day. I feed FDB worms when I get home followed by another BIG water change. Both tanks are FULLY cycled. I test my water EVERY day. My ph is 7.8 in and out of tap at the moment. This can change so I test my water EVERY day. I have well water; however, I use Prime just to be safe which is very expensive when you do as many water changes as I do. My temp on both tanks is 84. I've done ALL I can do and it makes NO difference. I wonder if breeders really realize this?? You have LOTS of fish in one tank and really don't deal with the same issues we do. Am I disappointed? You bet I am. I wouldn't mind all the work and expense if I could enjoy these fish, but hell, this is just awful.

[rjs2115]

wow. I definitely do not have it that bad. Sorry for the loss of your fish. I only have one that really gets picked on, but oddly enough he's the largest in the tank. My 4" blue diamond harasses the 4.5-5" tiger turq. But not to the point of injury or death. He just chases him, come feeding time.

[OC Discus]

Pg you obviously know it all so why not tell the op what to do or bug out. Your 90 g was under stocked and they have not yet formed a shoal. Yours would probably do better all in one tank- 8 in a 90g is better than 3 or 4 for aggression purposes.


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[pgrhodes1]

Thanks, they don't really cause injury. They are just plain relentless. The one picked on simply gives up, goes to the corner/hides, and stops eating. I've tried everything to get them to eat again. Put them in hospital tank, treat with general cure just in case, put the FDB worms right in front of their face, you name it. Hospital tank is the worst. Can't get them to eat by themselves. Have a divider in the 92 gal now trying to save the one the two big ones are picking on. He is eating now so I suppose I'll end up leaving the damn ugly divider in there. So much for a show tank.

[pgrhodes1]

Oh NO. YOU people know it all!! Except you DON'T!!

[MendoMan]

I have ten fish in a 140 gallon tall. Have no problem at all as far as aggression. The tank has plenty of room to move around and there are two decent size pieces of drift wood and several silk plants. If the fish want to hang by themselves for a bit they can. I'm not saying there isn't a peck here or there but nothing to worry about and all of them feed when it's time.

[OC Discus]

The large number helps reduce harmful aggression.


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[OC Discus]

Why not put the other five in the display tank and remove the divider? Two suggestions here:
1) proper stocking level for tank size
2) patience- it takes awhile for fish to adjust to a new setting

I've had tanks with two or three discus and the bullying was relentless. I gave up on those fish.

I added six discus of different sizes to my current 55 g tank. Two of the fish have taken the brunt of the pecking, but none have died and aggression has lessened. There is still some chasing, but not trying to kill each other.

Good luck


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[judijetson]

Guys, I can see pgs point of view as I battle with having aggressive pairs in my tank. It's 135 gallons and I had 11 discus each over 5". I've lost 2 beautiful fish (one was 6") and have 1 in qt that I'm praying will eat soon.
Being well fed and spreading out the feeding cones made no difference.
Rearranging the tank decorations made no difference
Using egg crate to separate the most aggressive pair has helped
Removing any type of decoration they could claim as territory has helped
I'll be adding 4 more large discus in the hope that will help. Even so that will only bring my total to 12 (not counting the one on qt in case it does not recover) and that is only one more than what I started with.

I completely get how relentless a discus can be. Love them to death but at times I'm tempted to tap the buggers on the nose and yell stop that! Well....I do actually yell :o

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[Skip]

PG.. are any of your fish happen to be Blue Diamond?

[pgrhodes1]

Thanks Judi, for understanding. I too have tried everything you listed. In fact, I don't think I've ever tried so hard at anything before. I think these are the most beautiful fish I've ever seen, but WOW, is all I can say.

I yell a lot also.........:)

[pgrhodes1]

Skip..no Blue Diamond

[judijetson]

One of mine is a Blue Diamond (deep blue gene)

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[Skip]

Skip..no Blue Diamond

was wondering.. i have seen a pattern .. when a person is posting about a BULLY.. its normally a BD.. esp with juvies.. since they are the most aggressive.. outside of a Breeding pair in community

[pgrhodes1]

I've tried putting all these guys together. The big ones literally dive bomb the little ones. Gave it 3 days and the little ones were completely wore out and hadn't eaten a thing. I tired putting the big one they are picking on with the little ones. He will not leave the little ones alone and terrifies the hell out of them. And of course this all causes stress. I know it sounds like I'm poo pooing all your suggestions but I've search and read every time I've had a problem and taken the advise given to others on this site. I'm beginning to believe that unless you are a breeder and have the resources to have lots of fish in your tank this does not work.

[Skip]

it took mine weeks.. for it to settle.. the RT of mine.. thought he would die.. than.. weeks later it stopped.. AND he ended up being the largest fish in the group.. after being smallest.

[dghby]

Wow, sorry for your troubles PG, it can definitely be tough at times. I have 9 in a 75 gl to help keep the aggression under control. which it does quite well.
definitely a pecking order but mild in aggression IMO. ( haha, try African Mbunas)
I also have 7 in a 55 gl with no issues. yes a bit over stocked in both tanks, but extra filtration and daily and every other day WC's takes care of that.
Have had Discus for the past 4 years and have never really had the aggression to the level you speak about.

BUT after all is said at the end of the day, they are still Cichlids. which generally equal aggression.

hope it soon gets better for you.

ps. where did you Discus come from??

[pgrhodes1]

Hi Tom, I live in MT and purchased from a local pet store in Missoula. I picked them up the day they arrived so they were not there long. I have thought about buying more from people on this site; however, what if it is still the same? I'll just end up with MORE trouble. AND the rest of the family hate seeing the fish try to kill each other also. I don't think I could convince them it is a numbers issue. I had a beautiful tank with easy fish that the whole family enjoyed until the Discus. Any fish that showed aggression was booted back to the pet store the minute it became an issue....

[dghby]

Hi Tom, I live in MT and purchased from a local pet store in Missoula. I picked them up the day they arrived so they were not there long. I have thought about buying more from people on this site; however, what if it is still the same? I'll just end up with MORE trouble. AND the rest of the family hate seeing the fish try to kill each other also. I don't think I could convince them it is a numbers issue. I had a beautiful tank with easy fish that the whole family enjoyed until the Discus. Any fish that showed aggression was booted back to the pet store the minute it became an issue....

yeah its just really strange, this may be the biggest problem I have read on aggression with Discus. hang in there.

[OC Discus]

Some wild animals develop a taste for blood and have to be put down. I have seen sd members have success by punishing the bully. If one fish is causing the disruption, move him to the qt tank for a week. If he s still mean try 2 weeks. If he won't settle down trade or sell him so he becomes low fish on another totem pole. If you have to get rid of a couple that is better than losing all your fish. Maybe by removing one or more you will end up with a harmonious group. After six months together mine still like to chase, but I know they are not trying to kill each other. Sometimes an animal, like a person, is a killer and needs to be dealt with for the sake of the community. It can get better.


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[OC Discus]

My bro in law raises cows. Any bull that is too aggressive and breaks a fence goes to the sale and is replaced by a tamer bull. Can work with discus.


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[pgrhodes1]

Oh, I forgot to mention I have mirrors on the sides of both tank....nothing but potted plants and sand so nothing to fight over. See, I read everything....:)