Adding crushed oyster shells into filter to buffer PH

[Aquacrazed]

The water in Vancouver BC is around 6.6 Ph and has no minerals so if we don't keep up with water changes, the ph crashes. With my new Manzanita driftwood in the tank leaching tannin's, this has made things worse. I've heard some people put crushed oyster shells in their filter, but my question is, where do you put it? What stage? I have a Fluval G6 filter and the mechanical and chemical stages are cartridges so I can't really add them there. Is it ok if I add it to the biological stage?

[adapted]

I had soft acidic water and tried crushed oyster shell but never got much benefit from it. These days I'm using a mixture of Discus Buffer and Neutral Regulator to both match new water to the tank's ph (which is usually arounf 6.25 - 6.5) and to buffer the day to day pH. I have found this combo very useful and very easy to work with.

[Len]

Can you explain what you mean by pH crashing? How low does it go, and how quickly?

[Aquacrazed]

Len, basically the ph would drop to the low 6's if a water change is not done in a week. It seems like it's dropping more with the driftwood tannin's in my tank.

[pcsb23]

There is no harm in adding something like crushed oyster shells. It will raise KH some and the added calcium may be a benefit for the fish. However it isn't strictly needed as a drop to low 6's in a week is a non event, heck even if it dropped to low 5's I wouldn't be worried.

This is not a pH crash btw. A pH crash is when the pH goes down significantly in a very short period of time, say from 7 to 3 or 4 in a matter of an hour or two. This is just a normal degradation of pH which is entirely normal in a properly functioning aquarium.

[Aquacrazed]

Ok, I guess it's not exactly a ph crash but I'm trying to figure out a way to stabilize the ph from dropping .5 or more a week as I would be going on vacation for about 2 weeks. My questions is where can I put the crushed oyster shells in the filter?

[lipadj46]

It doesn't matter where you put it. In with your biomedia would work

[adapted]

If you have very soft tap water, the challenge is to match your tank when it's time for a water change. I wrestled with this for years. People are quick to say "Don't mess with pH" but what do you do when your tank is at 6.15 and your tap water is a full point higher? As I have said here before, my recent solution is buffering WC water with Neutral Regulator and Discus Buffer. I can match the tank very closely and the tank water itself is less prone to dropping down past 6.

[koko]

The water in Vancouver BC is around 6.6 Ph and has no minerals so if we don't keep up with water changes, the ph crashes. With my new Manzanita driftwood in the tank leaching tannin's, this has made things worse. I've heard some people put crushed oyster shells in their filter, but my question is, where do you put it? What stage? I have a Fluval G6 filter and the mechanical and chemical stages are cartridges so I can't really add them there. Is it ok if I add it to the biological stage?

I also live in Vancouver, I put oyster shell or crush coral in AC110 media slot so you don't see it. you should also post at bcaquaria to get some local comment.

[Aquacrazed]

Thanks guys appreciate the help. koko, do you use a bag to put the crushed coral in? If so what is it? Also where did you buy your crushed coral in Vancouver?

[koko]

Thanks guys appreciate the help. koko, do you use a bag to put the crushed coral in? If so what is it? Also where did you buy your crushed coral in Vancouver?
I just put oyster shell on top of the sponge, but crush coral with a nylon bag. You can buy it at king ed or J&K.

[Len]

If you have very soft tap water, the challenge is to match your tank when it's time for a water change. I wrestled with this for years. People are quick to say "Don't mess with pH" but what do you do when your tank is at 6.15 and your tap water is a full point higher? As I have said here before, my recent solution is buffering WC water with Neutral Regulator and Discus Buffer. I can match the tank very closely and the tank water itself is less prone to dropping down past 6.

Do smaller water changes more frequently. People SHOULD be quick to say "Don't mess with pH" because more times than not when you chase a certain value, you just make matters worse. In the example you gave the pH will rise during a water change which isn't a big deal. It will then lower over at least several hours. Unless you've changed 100% of the water the actual fluctuation in your tank is going to be less that a full point so I'd suspect you are more anxious over the fluctuation than your discus are :) If your buffers are working for you, then great, but really it's always best to avoid putting "stuff" in your water unless it is absolutely necessary. In this case, it really isn't.

[adapted]

Do smaller water changes more frequently. People SHOULD be quick to say "Don't mess with pH" because more times than not when you chase a certain value, you just make matters worse. In the example you gave the pH will rise during a water change which isn't a big deal. It will then lower over at least several hours. Unless you've changed 100% of the water the actual fluctuation in your tank is going to be less that a full point so I'd suspect you are more anxious over the fluctuation than your discus are :) If your buffers are working for you, then great, but really it's always best to avoid putting "stuff" in your water unless it is absolutely necessary. In this case, it really isn't.

I've done it without buffers.... wilds sulked at almost every substantial water change. With buffers, they don't seem to mind at all. Also, I don't come home and find the pH has dropped to 5.5.

In any case, I am only relating my own experience and by no means suggesting anyone do anything based on what I have found helpful with my particular water parameter situation.

[discus rookie]

I have tried to use crushed coral but I found that leaving in the tank did not so much and when I put it in my filter the pH went up by a lot more than just holding it up from going down. So you need to find out how much to put in. My solution is probably not going to work for you as you are going away on vacation; I just change my water more frequently and it has been fine.
My discus seemed very fine when the pH dropped then when I added crushed coral to make the pH too high they were not happy. lol.

[pcsb23]

If you have very soft tap water, the challenge is to match your tank when it's time for a water change. I wrestled with this for years. People are quick to say "Don't mess with pH" but what do you do when your tank is at 6.15 and your tap water is a full point higher? As I have said here before, my recent solution is buffering WC water with Neutral Regulator and Discus Buffer. I can match the tank very closely and the tank water itself is less prone to dropping down past 6.My tanks used to run at extremely low pH as I used RO water with very little re-mineral salts in. The change water was several points higher that the tanks (between 2.5 and 3.5), the fish never bothered one jot. The only things that would hack them off was if the water hadn't been aged properly (excess dissolved gasses removed) and the temperature was significantly different (lower usually). Other wise they just carried on, bickering, eating, cr@pping and breeding!

[adapted]

Paul. did you eber notice any effect of such low pH values on biological filtration?

http://skepticalaquarist.com/nitrogen-cycle

It's possible I'm ascribing my wild fish's unhappiness with water changes to the wrong variable...could have been something other than a significantly different negative logarithm of hydronium ion concentration. All I know is that the fish seem happier with buffered, tank-matched water changes than they did before.

[pcsb23]

Paul. did you eber notice any effect of such low pH values on biological filtration?

http://skepticalaquarist.com/nitrogen-cycle

It's possible I'm ascribing my wild fish's unhappiness with water changes to the wrong variable...could have been something other than a significantly different negative logarithm of hydronium ion concentration. All I know is that the fish seem happier with buffered, tank-matched water changes than they did before.There is a saying that goes along the lines of "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" - basically if what you are doing is working, then ...

In my case I never saw any adverse reaction when doing water changes, other than when I used water that was too cold and hadn't aged (de-gassed). I only ever used RO water that was re-mineralised with commercial or home made salts. When I moved to the house I'm in, the water was dreadful, it varied from day to day and as there was a lot of building work going on so it was safer to use RO. My water has now stabilised and it has a high pH when aged from the tap, 8.2. As it no longer gets laced with masses of chlorine and alum etc I can now keep discus in clean tap water (I still filter through a carbon resin filter though). The KH is 14 too, so it is very hard!

Wilds need to be acclimated to harder water ime, but that doesn't take overly long. My preference with wilds is to keep them in soft water as I find they do better.

As for the biological filter, I never had any trace of ammonia or nitrites. I've read a number of articles that state nitrifying bacteria cannot live at pH lower than 6.5 or 6 or ... well some must do as I never had any issues and also I know many people who run there tanks at low and very low pH.

I am not suggesting that everyone should try and run their tanks at low pH, the closer you are to the edge the easier it is to fall over it! But what I do want to try and get folk to understand is that they have to stop obsessing over relatively small changes in pH. pH is to most intents and purposes unimportant as far as the fish are concerned, they only want clean warm water. 99% of the time when we change water the pH in the tank is lower than the new water, so the pH rises in the tank, this is far less damaging to the fish. But as stated even a fall isn't an issue with discus and some other fish. It happens every day in nature, and we are talking relatively large pH swings.

I've shown the image below before on here, it isn't faked or staged and nor was it an exception. It just shows the temp and pH that was typical in my tanks - and I have had it lower, much lower!

[adapted]

Thanks... you have enlightened me. I would have thought sub-5 pH values in a discus tank something to correct immediately.

I've already started some mild water change experimentation based on your posts... specifically, 20% changes with half-a-point higher replacement water. If the inhabitants don't react, I'll try a 40% change.

[April]

Well believe me...it does crash fast in Vancouver! And once it does...it keeps crashing even with an water change, but usually if your filter isn't keeping up. I've had some bad crashes in my years of keeping discus. Vancouver water is unpredictable. I'd add a second sponge and alternate squeezing. I use equilibrium and I used to use aragonite sand . Just a hand full did the trick. But that's just kh. It's hard to get our hardness up from 0 to 2 or 3. What you don't want is constant bounces .
You can also use crushed oyster shells.
I'll be getting aragonite or crushed coral in my shop soon. Hopefully this week but king Ed should have it. Sea hem has nice media bags .

[April]

Keeping wcs up is the best way to keep your ph from sliding for sure and making sure your filters are not overloaded and need squeezing.