Opaque eggs

[arman]

Hey everybody.
i have a problem with my young pair.well they are 20 months old and its 6th time to lay eggs.
well at the beginning the male one was unable to coordinate with female and i never noticed him fertilizing eggs.so i thought its because of his lack of experience.so i gave him time and fed him with vitamin-E enriched foods.
well in the 5th try some eggs got fertilized and i saw the baby discus eyes into the transparent eggs.i cleaned the tube and again fed the pair with vitamin enriched foods and in the last 36 days they laid eggs again.
so i observed the male during the process.he was coordinated with female and fertilizing eggs parallel with female which was laying eggs.
after 10 mins 1drop/Lit of 1% methylene blue solution was added..and i was just waiting.
after 24 hrs just 2 of 15o eggs was white and the rest were ok.but this morning i wake up about 40 eggs were opaque(36Hrs after fertilization)...other eggs have eyes and Ok.
well..it seems its all on male's sperm but i don't know what can i do...
somebody told me its because of your young pair and they need more experience.well i don't know!:bandana: because its my first time to breed discus.
water parameters:
pH=7
GH=70ppm
breeding tank size=50x50x50 cm~ 120 liters is filled up
safe and sound atmosphere:P
i would be thankful to have your consultation!

[arman]

i can add a note that 10% of eggs which were not opaque after 50 hrs hatched.idk whts the matter about remaining 90%....

[John_Nicholson]

I am sure your fish is fine. My guess at this point would be your water. How hard is your water?

-john

[arman]

thanks for the answer John.
well according to my TDS meter,my water general hardness it is 80-70 ppm.
when i see the eggs 12 hrs after fertilization i see some Semilunate white opacities in eggs...but some of them turn to larva after 50 hrs...
i realy dont know what to do!?:)
somebody told me its male low sperm content.i tried 3 weeks vitamin E therapy but nothing changed.

[John_Nicholson]

What temp are you keeping the tank at?

-john

[arman]

29-30 ' C john! sizing tank and breeding tank are same temperature.i don't keep them in high temperature because i have heard it makes males get infertile....maybe wrong idea
Everything is optimal except water condition.because many people here breed discus in 70-150 ppm GH:) so i didn't think it may be because of water...but seems i need to lower the GH.
or not?:

[nc0gnet0]

29-30 ' C john! sizing tank and breeding tank are same temperature.i don't keep them in high temperature because i have heard it makes males get infertile....maybe wrong idea
Everything is optimal except water condition.because many people here breed discus in 70-150 ppm GH:) so i didn't think it may be because of water...but seems i need to lower the GH.
or not?:

28c is what you need, you could try dropping your tds down to about 50 too

[arman]

so trying 28' C and GH<50 PPM soon after restarting the tank.i will post the results in the following week.
thanks anyway:P

[arman]

hey again.
well this time i lowered hardness to 30ppm but still 20% hatchery...
i just got 20 live larva...
now whats your advice to me dear john?

[Argentum]

Lowering the pH to 6 and making sure the water current is weak besides what you did should enhance your hatch rate.

[arman]

still nothing changed.somebody advised me to use brewer's yeast(Saccharomyces cerevisiae) in my male food because of vitamin b and some amino acids.
any suggestion or experience?

[John_Nicholson]

Sorry been away at NADA and did not see this thread when IO returned.

Since you are getting some hatch I would just let them go for the next couple of months. You said he fish was young, sometimes that just need a little age. I would keep your water soft and at 28 degrees. I did not see what you are feeding them but properly conditioning them is important. I feed a beef heart mix 90% of the time.

-john

[arman]

tnx john.
i feed them with a high quality BH mix.i think they need time.becasue atm i they have 8 babies.well i will try to add some supplements like folic acid/b complex/brewer's yeast(saccharomyces cervisiae)..i hope it works!

[John_Nicholson]

I had a friend back many years ago that had a male thet we thought was sterile. He made runs with every spawn until he was 30 months old without a single wiggler. My buddy was a bout to give up on him and then a spawn with over 100 babies. Every spawn after that hatched. Never seen anything like it before or since but sometimes it just takes time.

-john

[arman]

finally!
after adding Saccharomyces cerevisiae+ folic acid to my heart beef meal before feeding parents The hatchery rise from 10% to 80-90%!
problem was folic acid deficiency!
now i got 80 flying babies!:o
yea thnx John