Aged Water PH.

[Mia427]

Hey everyone!!!

I have started aging my water using a 55 Gallon brute trash can. The main reason i started aging was because of my micro bubble problem. I age the water for 24 hours with prime, a heater at 87 degrees, and 2 large air stones. Today i decided to check the PH in my barrel because i have never done so (why i don't know, maybe because I'm a idiot?…) The PH in my tank is 7.4, Out of tap is 7.6, and in my barrel its 8.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is the PH in the aged water so much higher?

Also is this safe for the Discus? From my understanding a change in PH is not a good thing.

What do you guys recommend i do?

Please feel free to chime in with any advice! Thanks!

[Keith Perkins]

If I remember right safe and or prime should be added as you're about to use the water. I don't need to use either so hopefully someone else will come along and confirm that. As far as the pH goes, higher pH is better than the other way around, and definitely better than it bouncing while it's in the tank. What are your fish telling you? Seriously. Are they acting like they're comfortable with the WCs? If they are, I wouldn't worry about it at all. Less than a point normally isn't that big a deal IME.

[rickztahone]

I had a micro-bubble problem, but not a pH swing problem. In general small pH swings aren't that bad, but if you are seeing some swing, then aging your water is your best bet. In your aging barrel, use tap water, heater, air stone and add your dechlorinator and you are set for a WC the next day. If you are growing juvies I would recommend 84F, but preferrably, around 82F when they get older. Everyone's milage may vary though.

[Larry Bugg]

Why are you aging at 87? 82 is the best temp for your discus.

When you age water co2 is gassed off which causes the PH to rise. This is normal. How often and how much water are you changing? As your tank water gets dirty from things like left over food and fish excrement the nitrates will increase which in turn can cause the PH to drop.

[adapted]

The PH in my tank is 7.4, Out of tap is 7.6, and in my barrel its 8.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is the PH in the aged water so much higher?

Also is this safe for the Discus? From my understanding a change in PH is not a good thing.

What do you guys recommend i do?

Please feel free to chime in with any advice! Thanks!


Your pH changes aren't unusual. As CO2 gasses out, the pH will rise in your storage barrel. (When it's dissolved in your water, CO2 makes your water a weak carbonic acid solution.)

In your tank, pH typically drops as a consequence of the normal nitrification cycle. (More weak acid, this time from dissolved nitrogen compounds.)

To complicate things, sometime there are compounds added by the water admin folks that increase pH long enough to avoid damage to pipes, in which case, your pH could drop in the barrel as that compound dissipates. (This goes on with my water, which can drop a full point during aging, especially in winter.)

Paul (pcsb23) dismisses concerns over pH increase from water changes and has the experience to back that up. Mostly on his advice, I have started doing 30% changes with water that is close to 1 pH point higher (about 6.8 in the barrel compared to about 5.9 in the tank) and the fish (adult wilds) don't seem to mind. That would translate to about a .3 increase in just a minute or two.

So: don't worry too much over modest rises in pH... if your fish even notice, they probably won't care too much. Sudden drops are more of a concern.

And yeah, raising the temp to 87 is not necessary or helpful... 3 - 5 degrees lower would be better.

[Mia427]

Your pH changes aren't unusual. As CO2 gasses out, the pH will rise in your storage barrel. (When it's dissolved in your water, CO2 makes your water a weak carbonic acid solution.)

In your tank, pH typically drops as a consequence of the normal nitrification cycle. (More weak acid, this time from dissolved nitrogen compounds.)

To complicate things, sometime there are compounds added by the water admin folks that increase pH long enough to avoid damage to pipes, in which case, your pH could drop in the barrel as that compound dissipates. (This goes on with my water, which can drop a full point during aging, especially in winter.)

Paul (pcsb23) dismisses concerns over pH increase from water changes and has the experience to back that up. Mostly on his advice, I have started doing 30% changes with water that is close to 1 pH point higher (about 6.8 in the barrel compared to about 5.9 in the tank) and the fish (adult wilds) don't seem to mind. That would translate to about a .3 increase in just a minute or two.

So: don't worry too much over modest rises in pH... if your fish even notice, they probably won't care too much. Sudden drops are more of a concern.

And yeah, raising the temp to 87 is not necessary or helpful... 3 - 5 degrees lower would be better.

Ok got it! Thanks! I keep my temp at 85 is that to hot? I was under the assumption 84-86 was ideal. Learn something new every day!


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[Keith Perkins]

85 is not too hot, but hotter than it needs to be for adults.

[adapted]

Ok got it! Thanks! I keep my temp at 85 is that to hot?



Probably not necessary or desirable to go much above 82 or so for your standard temp. Some people say younger fish can benefit (higher metabolism, faster growth) but most here recommend 82 as the optimal temp. Keep in mind that warmer water can't hold as much dissolved oxygen and this can make your fish work a little harder to get what they need. I like the idea of maximizing oxygen content if possible.

[Madaboutdiscus]

You don't need to add a prime to your aging barrel. When you get ready to change your water add enough Prime to the tank to cover the whole volume of the tank then add your new water. But if you're seeing such a high ph drop in your tank. Also like said earlier how often are you changing your water? The longer the water goes without changing the more it will slowly drop.

~Victoria

[Mia427]

You don't need to add a prime to your aging barrel. When you get ready to change your water add enough Prime to the tank to cover the whole volume of the tank then add your new water. But if you're seeing such a high ph drop in your tank. Also like said earlier how often are you changing your water? The longer the water goes without changing the more it will slowly drop.

~Victoria

I change my water almost every day.


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[John_Nicholson]

Sounds like most items have been covered but 82 is the best all around temp for discus. Really not much need for anything higher.

-john

[DiscusLoverJeff]

In the last year, my aged tap water went from 7.5 to 8.8 after 24 hours, stayed the same after 48 hours. Something changed in my community water supply but could never get a straight answer if they changed additives that they use to keep the water quality good.

I have not seen it effect my fish in any way so I am comfortable using it now. One thing I do though is cut my water with RO just to keep the PH around 7.8 to 8.0. It can be a pain at times but I stay focused on my TDS more than the PH.

[Mia427]

Sounds like most items have been covered but 82 is the best all around temp for discus. Really not much need for anything higher.

-john

I honestly thought 84-86 was the magic number. I'll drop a degree everyday till I get to 82. Good to know! That's why I love this forum! Thanks!


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[Mia427]

You don't need to add a prime to your aging barrel. When you get ready to change your water add enough Prime to the tank to cover the whole volume of the tank then add your new water. But if you're seeing such a high ph drop in your tank. Also like said earlier how often are you changing your water? The longer the water goes without changing the more it will slowly drop.

~Victoria

I've done it both ways and I honesty didn't see or notice a difference in anything different..... I guess either way should be ok right?


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[DiscusLoverJeff]

I've done it both ways and I honesty didn't see or notice a difference in anything different..... I guess either way should be ok right?


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Your aging barrels over time will develop some slime in your barrels (brown stuff). This why you should add it directly to the aquarium before water changes.

[adapted]

I've done it both ways and I honesty didn't see or notice a difference in anything different..... I guess either way should be ok right?



After having done it both ways, I agree with Jeff and other who add Prime directly to the tank.

If you use all your water from your storage barrel each time, it's probably more efficient to add it to the barrel... you'd just add the amount needed for the water barrel instead of the whole tank. If not, you'll get a slime buildup as was already noted. (The buildup has more to do with the absence of chlorine to kill microbes than anything in Prime.)

Adding Prime to the tank (dosed for the entire tank volume) will neutralize ammonia and nitrite for a day or so, so that may be an important benefit beyond binding up chlorine and chloramines...

[Mia427]

After having done it both ways, I agree with Jeff and other who add Prime directly to the tank.

If you use all your water from your storage barrel each time, it's probably more efficient to add it to the barrel... you'd just add the amount needed for the water barrel instead of the whole tank. If not, you'll get a slime buildup as was already noted. (The buildup has more to do with the absence of chlorine to kill microbes than anything in Prime.)

Adding Prime to the tank (dosed for the entire tank volume) will neutralize ammonia and nitrite for a day or so, so that may be an important benefit beyond binding up chlorine and chloramines...

I rinse my barrel out every week so that's probably why I haven't noticed anything slimy.


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[dmartinx]

How about for juveniles? Don't you prefer higher temps to promote growth?

D

[John_Nicholson]

How about for juveniles? Don't you prefer higher temps to promote growth?

D

Not people that know what they are doing. You can find lots of internet experts.................

-john