First time for everything, pls help on sick discus :confused:

[c_sir]

Ok, well I've kept this leopard discus for about, i don't recall honestly. Quite some time, in fact it was my first ever order from Kenny so its of course from a reputable source. Although there were juvies, rose-line sharks and two angels prior to his arrival. He is probably about 6" (or tipping that) and the alpha of the tank which is ever more worrisome. It all started with one time, I was about to feed them and I raised my arms too fast, with out thinking, and he spooked like I've never seen before. He jet off and hit wood glass you name it. After that he would hide all time and would eat just after I left. I've noticed in the past week perhaps he would take like one bite and that would be all. Yesterday I did my complete water change and today he took a turn for the worst. He doesn't want to eat (two days now) and he is just dark. He tends to stay with his face tilted up slightly and tail downward. I've seen him rest on the glass once but this morning he was actually swimming like normal, above the rest. Ever since the wc I've had the lights off for his security or whatnot. Can anyone suggest something. (ill post the questionnaire asap)

[c_sir]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Well like stated, he does not eat, dark, tilts slightly upward at times, hides. The hiding started ever since the incident which may have been like 3 weeks ago and progressed from there.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Well again, dark, slight tailstading at times..


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

none


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

Tank is 130 us gallons, about 6' long, about 2' tall and 1.5' in width. its been running for a long long time. Currently have 6 rose-line sharks, 2 angels and 10 discus.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

It might sound bad for some of you but I change about 50-60% weekly or 1.5 weeks. And one complete wc a month meaning gravel, artificial plants (in the past) and wood to rid of the occasional algae. (I hate algae)


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Its been running with these fish for I want to say a year with the rose-line, angels and my little runts. Black gravel, which I'm fixing to change and is about 1.5".


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __85F___

- ph __7.8___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __0__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water __yes__

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

I added 5 discus early june I got from Kenny. The sick discus was in perfect condition and like stated was the alpha.


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5560/14733097641_7143879b3e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/orUYCR)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3880/14733099031_b3fb4df2e4.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/orUZ3P)

[Champion Discus]

So basically he's not eating and is turning dark is your main concern...
When you had them in QT did you notice anything or treated them with med as a precaution?

Try putting him in his own tank (bare bottom) or a light color bucket and see if his color returns. Feed him bloodworms or live bloodworms to get him eating again (live BW seem to work for me). If anything turns for the worse, it could be an internal problem and that needs more time for observation. If he still isn't eating enough, medicate with Prazi (good for deworming).

[c_sir]

Basically that is my concern. Are you talking about the last ones I introduced early june? No, i know i know. I didn't have any option, lack of space/tanks. I've been observing them and he has nothing. Of course, I don't have any experience with sick discus. i removed all the ornaments aka plants maybe causing more stress??? idk. But like I said it started ever since I spooked him. This is him atm

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5573/14757316063_b8c034b655.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ou46VR)

[OC Discus]

Water quality can deteriorate slowly over time. Fish health can also decline slowly over time. They startle very easily. Having bashed into several things, he could be dealing with some shock. And if water quality is not good, it could delay his recovery.

Are you sure your parameters are accurate? With your water change schedule I would think some nitrate would be in the tank. Test again before a water change.

The pictures are fuzzy, but there appears to be a whitish fungus in the last picture. You could have some bacterial issues going on.

[Allwin]

nitrate 0? looks like water quality issue to start with.

[nc0gnet0]

So basically he's not eating and is turning dark is your main concern...
When you had them in QT did you notice anything or treated them with med as a precaution?

Try putting him in his own tank (bare bottom) or a light color bucket and see if his color returns. Feed him bloodworms or live bloodworms to get him eating again (live BW seem to work for me). If anything turns for the worse, it could be an internal problem and that needs more time for observation. If he still isn't eating enough, medicate with Prazi (good for deworming).

This fish has not been eating for only a couple of days, I think feeding live blackworms (and I am not even sure where one can find live bloodworms) is bad advice. I know in another thread, I recommended that, but that was a last resort for a fish that hadn't eaten in months, not a few days, and after it had been underwent a few rounds of medication. Don't make this a "go to" response.

[nc0gnet0]

It might sound bad for some of you but I change about 50-60% weekly or 1.5 weeks. And one complete wc a month meaning gravel, artificial plants (in the past) and wood to rid of the occasional algae. (I hate algae)

It kinda does. For now I would really focus on water quality. IMO, gravel is the utmost worst thing you can have in a tank, sand would be much better. UP the water changes to 50+% daily for a week or two and I bet the fish improves dramatically. Poor water quality can make fish much more inclined to "spook". And as Alwin has already pointed out, it is virtually impossible to have a nitrate reading of 0, especially considering your water change routine. Did you check the nitrite and ammonia levels, or are they just guess as well?

-Rick

[c_sir]

Water quality can deteriorate slowly over time. Fish health can also decline slowly over time. They startle very easily. Having bashed into several things, he could be dealing with some shock. And if water quality is not good, it could delay his recovery.

Are you sure your parameters are accurate? With your water change schedule I would think some nitrate would be in the tank. Test again before a water change.

The pictures are fuzzy, but there appears to be a whitish fungus in the last picture. You could have some bacterial issues going on.

Thanks for replying everyone! I should clarify, the first two pics were taken when the tank water was settling, hence the cloud/fuzziness. All the water was changed except like 5". I did that "complete" wc yesterday morning and did the test for the parameters today, mid-day. The water is literally crystal clear atm

[timmy82]

It kinda does. For now I would really focus on water quality. IMO, gravel is the utmost worst thing you can have in a tank, sand would be much better. UP the water changes to 50+% daily for a week or two and I bet the fish improves dramatically. Poor water quality can make fish much more inclined to "spook". And as Alwin has already pointed out, it is virtually impossible to have a nitrate reading of 0, especially considering your water change routine. Did you check the nitrite and ammonia levels, or are they just guess as well?

-Rick

2nd that I would be increasing water changes and normally what your saying and spooking like that is a sign of bad water too.

[c_sir]

It kinda does. For now I would really focus on water quality. IMO, gravel is the utmost worst thing you can have in a tank, sand would be much better. UP the water changes to 50+% daily for a week or two and I bet the fish improves dramatically. Poor water quality can make fish much more inclined to "spook". And as Alwin has already pointed out, it is virtually impossible to have a nitrate reading of 0, especially considering your water change routine. Did you check the nitrite and ammonia levels, or are they just guess as well?

-Rick

Hello Mr. Rick (sorry if that makes you sound old lol) I did in fact read that post about the live worms for that fish that had not eaten anything for a really long time. I appreciate the suggestion but Ive read enough on here so live food is a no for me. Perhaps if I found myself in the shoes of that unfortunate individual. Now yes, gravel is not "desirable" but until I have money for sand it'll have to do. Oh about the parameters, I already explained that in the above post.

[nc0gnet0]

Ok, I will give you the benefit of a doubt on the water readings, but, it is much better to take these readings before you do a water change as opposed to after. We want to know what the fish has been living in, not what your water is like after a 95% water change :)

Spooked fish can take some time to re-adjust. Stay on top of the water changes and just monitor the fish for the time being. I do know that if gravel is left uncleaned for a period of time, when you finally do go to clean it, you can stir up quite a bit of crap (both literally and figuratively) and this can temporarily adversely effect the water quality, despite having done a water change.

-Rick

[c_sir]

nitrate 0? looks like water quality issue to start with.

Hello Allwin thanks for comments. In all honesty, I feel like its the shock he's going through for that incident more because like I said he's been there the longest with that same wc regime with no problem but I do understand that in time it slowly turns for the worst, just like right now. (Pls keep in mind, I'm no expert whatsoever I'm just replying what i feel, so all advice is gratefully taken into account)

[c_sir]

2nd that I would be increasing water changes and normally what your saying and spooking like that is a sign of bad water too.

Yeah, makes sense. Since the wc I have two pairs trying to mate and fighting who gets who haha. Not interested on that anyway. My turbo sharks will probably eat the eggs like they do to the angels.

[c_sir]

Ok, I will give you the benefit of a doubt on the water readings, but, it is much better to take these readings before you do a water change as opposed to after. We want to know what the fish has been living in, not what your water is like after a 95% water change :)

Spooked fish can take some time to re-adjust. Stay on top of the water changes and just monitor the fish for the time being. I do know that if gravel is left uncleaned for a period of time, when you finally do go to clean it, you can stir up quite a bit of crap (both literally and figuratively) and this can temporarily adversely effect the water quality, despite having done a water change.

-Rick

Got it, thank you for your time. Oh and the gravel thing is very true. I'll update tomorrow to see whats happening. Thanks everyone

[OC Discus]

If funds are an issue, a quick remedy would be to fill a holding tank with your tank water, heater, and airstone. Drain the tank and remove all the gravel. Wipe down the surfaces with bleach, refill with warm water and double dose dechlorinator. Pop the fish back into a clean, healthy bare bottom tank. Now you can remove almost 100% of the waste when you vacuum and wipe down.

[c_sir]

Update: HE is still half the time listless and half just there. He did take a couple of bites of Al's FDBW yesterday and the day before. I have kept the up the wc regime and everything. He's still very dark, what do you think??