Discus fin rot ? or just damage ?

[forevaufo]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

This guy is new, I just got him from Josie's ChicagoDiscus few days ago.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

His pectoral fin is not normal, I am not sure if that is a fin rot or just damaged during transportation. He sometimes just clamp that fin and swim with just the other pectoral fin, but sometime he swim with both pectoral fin.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Nothing yet.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

1 year+ old 55 gallons. 3 discus, 3-4 inches.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

Did a 50% yesterday.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

about 3 inches of sand

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

Nope

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __82-83___

- ph __6.8___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __0__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

Dechlorinated tap water

9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Nope


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.


http://i.imgur.com/5eDRmyB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9ldt5Vq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mtvBxeh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Q5O9kXZ.jpg

Any help will be great. Thanks in advance guys :)

[pcsb23]

Looks like a bit of shipping damage. Plenty of clean water and it should recover fine. Do keep an eye on it.

If I've understood correctly you did not qt this fish before adding to your existing stock, this can often lead to all sorts of pain, always better to qt.

[forevaufo]

Thanks pcsb23 glad it is just damage and not something i have to treat.
They are my first batch of discus so I didnt bother with the qt :p

[forevaufo]

Please help the fin on the little guys seems to be getting worse. The white-ish stuff got alot bigger... I am not sure if those are really fungal or just slime-coat. But that fin is always clamped and he is just swimming with the other pectoral fin. :(
I duuno what to do with this little guy :cry:

http://i.imgur.com/CAqDyDh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IFAtMqK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IoGNN9v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0DagKn3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cBVNOpH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VHHfTyU.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

What is your water change schedule? How much percentage wise and how often?

[forevaufo]

I got this little guy on Tuesday, I did a 50%-60% on Friday and a 30% Sunday.

He dose seem to be eating, I am not too sure... is the first time i see them got interested in the food.
He's swimming around pecking at one other discus tho, just with 1 pectoral fin.

[Second Hand Pat]

I would suggest doing at least a 50% WC daily until the fin clears.

[Second Hand Pat]

Also since you recently added fish you should check ammonia to see if a mini-cycle is occurring. I noted you did not test your water parameters and record it in your questionnaire.

[forevaufo]

Are they fungal ?
Should I use any medicine to treat the tank?

[Second Hand Pat]

No, do 50% or greater daily water changes and check your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate), with the fish you added I willing to bet you have a mini-cycle happening.

[forevaufo]

Also since you recently added fish you should check ammonia to see if a mini-cycle is occurring. I noted you did not test your water parameters and record it in your questionnaire.

Ah.. will do that right now.
Everything was 0 before, but I should have did another one by now

[Second Hand Pat]

If you have a cycled tank nitrates are never zero.

[forevaufo]

I just tested again, here are the result.
Could be because I am under stock and have somewhat a lot of plants ? :confused:
The tank had been running for almost an years now if not more, it only have 6 neon , 6 siamese algae eater, 2 small pleco and 1 German blue ram
and I run UV 12 hours a day

Nirtate reader are not totally yellow yellow but is not orange too... I think is in between, I am not sure :(
I tested High Ph too because the normal Ph is off the chart

http://i.imgur.com/GPIJxfN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0YaXoLl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1o3fErZ.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

What exactly does the tank have now fish wise? Also please check the date on your test kit.

[forevaufo]

I just check the date, they exp 2017.

6 Neon tetra
6 siamese algae eater
1 GBR
1 1"-2" bristlenose pleco
1 1"-2" clown pleco
2 3" yoyo loach

2 2" red turq
2 4" blue diamond
1 3" Super Golden
1 3" Sliver pigeon
1 3" WP/CB mix

[Second Hand Pat]

All the discus were added recently, right? to a 55 with existing dithers. So you have added a massive increase on your bio-load so I believe there is something awry with your test kit. It is always best to measure water prior to a water changes. Anyway I would do 100% WCs daily since you have seven juvies. I would also suggest for you to grow them out in a BB tank if you wish to grow them out properly. Young discus require lots of clean water and food which trashes a tank in a heartbeat. The plants and gravel will make keeping a clean tank just about impossible.

[forevaufo]

Ah I see... Thanks Second Hand Pat :D

I will do the best i can to WC daily and see how that fin will go

[forevaufo]

Today I noticed my blue diamond got some of those white stuff too.
He didnt have them before, I just did a 90% water change yesterday.
What are those white stuff anyway ? :confused:

http://i.imgur.com/UCFdRgu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VuuOPLB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/63VgQFL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vKlIEeA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/L0cz8Sa.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Can be caused by elevated ammonia which would be my guess. Time for a large water change. :D

[Keith Perkins]

What was going on when you did these water tests, had you just done a massive WC or something?

http://i.imgur.com/0YaXoLl.jpg

I ask because you are showing 0 Nitrates and that shouldn't be for an established tank.

[forevaufo]

I only did a 30% ish WC the day before I did those test

Could it be because I m doing it wrong ? lol

I add 10 drops of Nitrate #1 then shake and add 10 drops of Nitrate #2...

Now that I think of it... maybe I didnt wait long enough for the color to show up..

I should have waited 5 mins right ? I couldnt remember, I lost the manual. :p

[Second Hand Pat]

Believe two of those four tests require a five minute wait after adding the solution from the second reagent bottle and a good mix between the first and second reagent bottles. Should be ammonia and nitrate but I do not have my directions with me ATM.

[Keith Perkins]

The internet is an amazing place...

http://www.apifishcare.com/product.php?p=instructions&id=591

1. Fill a clean test tube with 5 ml of water
to be tested (to the line on the tube).
2. Add 10 drops from Nitrate Test Solution
Bottle #1, holding dropper bottle upside
down in a completely vertical position to
assure uniformity of drops.
3. Cap the test tube and invert tube several
times to mix solution.
4. Vigorously shake the Nitrate Test
Solution Bottle # 2 for at least 30
seconds. This step is extremely
important to insure accuracy of test
results.
5. Now add 10 drops from Nitrate Test
Solution Bottle #2, holding dropper
bottle upside down in a completely
vertical position to assure uniformity
of drops.
6. Cap the test tube and shake
vigorously for 1 minute. This step
is extremely important to insure
accuracy of test results.
7. Wait 5 minutes for the color to
develop.
8. Read the test results by comparing the
color of the solution to the appropriate
Nitrate Color Card (choose either Fresh
water or Salt water). The tube should
be viewed in a well-lit area against the
white area of the card. The closest
match indicates the ppm (mg/L) of
nitrate in the water sample. Rinse the
test tube with clean water after use.

[forevaufo]

Haha keith thanka you
I will follow those inatruction strictly when i get home

[Keith Perkins]

Here's Ammonia test directions:

1. Fill a clean test tube with 5 ml of water to be
tested (to the line on the tube).
2. Add 8 drops from Ammonia Test Solution Bottle #1,
holding the dropper bottle upside down in a
completely vertical position to assure uniform drops.
3. Add 8 drops from Ammonia Test Solution Bottle #2,
holding the dropper bottle upside down in a
completely vertical position to assure uniform drops.
4. Cap the test tube & shake vigorously for 5 seconds.
5. Wait 5 minutes for the color to develop.
6. Read the test results by comparing the color of
the solution to the appropriate Ammonia Color
Card (choose either Freshwater or Saltwater. For
ponds, use the freshwater color card). The tube
should be viewed in a well-lit area against the
white area of the card. The closest match indicates
the ppm (mg/L) of ammonia in the water sample.
Rinse the test tube with clean water after use.
Note: Do not pour test tube contents back into
the aquarium/pond.

and Nitrites too:

1. Fill a clean test tube with 5 ml of
water to be tested (to the line on
the tube).
2. Add 5 drops of Nitrite Test Solution,
holding dropper bottle upside
down in a completely vertical
position to assure uniformity of
drops.
3. Cap the test tube and shake for
5 seconds.
4. Wait 5 minutes for the color to
develop.
5. Read the test results by comparing
the color of the solution to the
Nitrite Color Card. The tube should
be viewed in a well-lit area against
the white area of the card. The
closest match indicates the ppm
(mg/L) of nitrite in the water
sample. Rinse the test tube with
clean water after use.

[Chicago Discus]

Allen, This is Miranda here. You were just here at Chicago Discus today to pick up another Silver Pigeon, and you did not mention any of this to me. I have not been following the discussion on this forum, so I was not aware of the extent of the problems. I did ask you about the Blue and the Gold and you said they were eating well and that the Blue was acting aggressive... nothing about the fin damage. You contacted me early on about several issues. In the course of our discussions I found that your water temperature was 79 degrees. You corrected it and I hope it is back closer to 84 now. I also found that you did not have any air supply in your tank, and that you had powerheads moving the water. I hope now that you corrected these issues as well. I told you about aging the water and the reasons for doing this, such as removing micro bubbles and preventing pH swings in your tank. I do not know whether you are using aged water now. So there were several issues going on which I hope are now corrected.

When you contacted me early on, I mentioned a fungal problem. A planted tank can harbor a lot of fungal spores because it is so difficult to clean well, and then when the temperature was raised to 84 for discus, it could have activated the spores. It also seems like the other fish in your tank may be attacking and damaging your discus. In fact, you brought one back to us today that was missing a pectoral fin. That fish did not have a birth defect as you thought, but it had a ripped off fin. If there are open wounds, they are susceptible to fungal infection.

Here's what I suggest. Large daily water changes are certainly called for. If you haven't already done so, you should set up an aging barrel for your water. I would also consider removing some the plants and substrate to make your tank easier to keep clean. Please look at your other fish and see if any of them are acting aggressive toward the discus. Try this for a week before using medication, but you may want to have some anti fungal meds on hand in case you need them.

[forevaufo]

Miranda Thank you for your advice. I did not notice the problem on the blue diamond because it was too early in the morning and the timer I set up on the light did not kick in yet.
The temperature are at the 83-84, I corrected the temperature since the first day I got the first discus, it has been a week.
As for powerheads, I knew discus are delicate fish and I never have the powerhead on ever since the discus was introduced to the tank. I was just asking to make sure what I thought was right.
I dont think my other fish are attacking the discus as they steer clear and far away from the discus, the only thing i see was the discus pecking at each other.

[yim11]

If I understand correctly, the powerhead is off and no air into tank? If so, you need some - any - filtration, this is what is probably causing the high ammonia. They will be ok w/the powerhead on, point it to the glass if you are worried about too much direct current. The white on the edge/ends of fins is from ammonia burn and its getting worse. Until you can get the tank balanced/cycled the only real way to help the fish is as has been suggested - you HAVE to do large water changes every day. Like 80% large. This will get the water w/high ammonia out and clean fresh water in. Miranda has great advice, hopefully thats working out for you.

The pics of the turq are gone, that was one strange pec fin! Never seen one like that before.

HTHs

[forevaufo]

What was going on when you did these water tests, had you just done a massive WC or something?

http://i.imgur.com/0YaXoLl.jpg

I ask because you are showing 0 Nitrates and that shouldn't be for an established tank.



I did the water test again, this time following the direction. lol

My Nitrate are still showing 0 ... :scared:


But I dont get it... shouldnt it be normal to have 0 Nitrate since I am doing big WC for the discus ?

[yim11]

Which dechlor product do you use?



I did the water test again, this time following the direction. lol

My Nitrate are still showing 0 ... :scared:


But I dont get it... shouldnt it be normal to have 0 Nitrate since I am doing big WC for the discus ?

[forevaufo]

Which dechlor product do you use?

Seachem prime

[yim11]

probably a false reading using that kit. big as* water changes every day will get you where you want to be.

[forevaufo]

I did a 90% yesterday and a 80% today. Still 0...

[yim11]

If you google false reading for api with prime you will find lots to read, I wouldn't trust a potential false reading. The seachem suction attached ammonia reader is supposed to work. Regardless, if you keep doing 80/90% changes you will stay on top of it till the tank can balance.

[forevaufo]

If you google false reading for api with prime you will find lots to read, I wouldn't trust a potential false reading. The seachem suction attached ammonia reader is supposed to work. Regardless, if you keep doing 80/90% changes you will stay on top of it till the tank can balance.


Google-ing now :D

Thanks

[forevaufo]

If I understand correctly, the powerhead is off and no air into tank? If so, you need some - any - filtration, this is what is probably causing the high ammonia.

Oh sorry I missed out on this post, I must have been replying to the Nitrate situation and thought my reply was the latest post and totally missed it.

My circulation pump is indeed offed. I have air stone running in the tank and the filter return is right under the water surface agitating the water surface.

But I am donig those WCs :D