what discus species this?

[kikkan]

Hey.
There are many experienced breeders on this forum, so I'm looking for an answer to what discus species this is?

In my opinion, this is a mix of two species that should not have been put together.
It is also peppered and smoked something which occurs when two species do not quite fit together.

What is your opinion?
Seeking answers by experienced breeders.

Thank you.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/kikkan1/discusmix2_zpsfc4936bf.jpg
Picture 1


http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/kikkan1/discusmix_zps2029a7fa.jpg
Picture2

[DISCUS STU]

It appears to be a Pigeon Blood. Possibly back crossed with a Red Turquoise. The species is supposed to have originated from the Red Turquoise anyway.

[John_Nicholson]

It is a strain and not a species but you are correct in that is appears to be a crappy cross of a PB to a non-PB. This is way most experienced people recommend against it.

-john

[rickztahone]

It is a strain and not a species but you are correct in that is appears to be a crappy cross of a PB to a non-PB. This is way most experienced people recommend against it.

-john
For some reason reason I read the first post amd pictured you replying exactly the same way as you did, lol.

[John_Nicholson]

Well if I am nothing else I am consistant. I would really like for all of those people who say go ahead and see what neat fish you get would come look at these pics and say if they would lke discus like this in their tanks.

-john

[a.person61]

It is a strain and not a species but you are correct in that is appears to be a crappy cross of a PB to a non-PB. This is way most experienced people recommend against it.

-john

How is it crappy? Its awsome and differnt. He would be welcome to me with open arms.

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[Fish24]

I think this discus is awesome and the color looks great. So many discus lovers are haters on anything not considered the norm. Sure blah blah blah your years of experience and what not. I think it's nice. :) looks good to me. I'm sure many would take that beauty.

[kikkan]

i ment strain and not species ofc ;)
Thanks guys.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as breeders and discus lovers, this is a bad one in my eyes.

[kikkan]

Do you guys think theese 2 discus will be less peppered over time?

I dont....

[Larry Bugg]

LOL, to each their own. IMO that is one butt ugly discus. JMO. Not only is it peppered but it looks stunted also.

[pcsb23]

I find it interesting that the newbies to the hobby think this may be a great discus whilst the old timers (maybe even grumpy old timers too) think it is a poor example, which it is.

Each to their own, but with experience sometimes we find wisdom.

[a.person61]

I find it interesting that the newbies to the hobby think this may be a great discus whilst the old timers (maybe even grumpy old timers too) think it is a poor example, which it is.

Each to their own, but with experience sometimes we find wisdom.

heres how i see it, the oldtimers are use to there "perfect" fish and when shown a young hybrid they would say "cull" it wth is cull! Say kill its the truth your taking a life just because its differnt... All life is awsome so stop breaking it. Ik this dose not help the question i just wanted to get it out there. When some thing is out of the od embrace it, Love it, And it will love you.

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[nc0gnet0]

heres how i see it, the oldtimers are use to there "perfect" fish and when shown a young hybrid they would say "cull" it wth is cull! Say kill its the truth your taking a life just because its differnt... All life is awsome so stop breaking it. Ik this dose not help the question i just wanted to get it out there. When some thing is out of the od embrace it, Love it, And it will love you.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk 2

As everyone knows, I experiment with a lot of cross's. I have seen more than my share of discus like this :)

In the past they we very quick to be culled (I think nothing of culling 95% of a spawn). Perhaps you should come over sometime, I will make you one heck of a deal !!!

:)

[brewmaster15]

The Degree of peppering to me is matter of personal taste... and whats acceptable in the hobby has changed and evolved over time as the strains have been improved. The goal was to remove the peppering so selective breeding was done.


A round fish shape and small eyes size has always been a standard thoiugh that we have tried to keep....which this fish lacks..

Like Rick I too have played with genetics extensively....there can not be innovation and novel strains without it...and like Rick, most are culled which is hard for some to do...but necessary . It helps to know a bit about genetics and discus...but even then...ugly happens.

al

[John_Nicholson]

"All life is awsome so stop breaking"...Now I don't know you so I am making up a situation to prove a point.....

So lets say that you are married and have kids. Someone breaks into your house and is doing some unspeakable act to your spouse or kids. You have the power to stop it but it would be taking the life of the criminal. Would you do it?

The point is most educated people avoid words like...All, Never, Always, None. We seldom ( See I said seldom instead of never ) use these types of words because usually ( see I did it again ) someone can use it to poke holes in out arguments.

In this case the vast majority of people would consider those discus to be crap discus. Here is another way of looking at it.....You win a contest and you get a car. You can chose the 2015 fully loaded Cadillac or a 1971 ford pinto.....You really going to chose the pinto?

-john

[pcsb23]

heres how i see it, the oldtimers are use to there "perfect" fish and when shown a young hybrid they would say "cull" it wth is cull! Say kill its the truth your taking a life just because its differnt... All life is awsome so stop breaking it. Ik this dose not help the question i just wanted to get it out there. When some thing is out of the od embrace it, Love it, And it will love you.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk 2At what point did I say cull?

btw cull is the correct term here - i.e. selective slaughter of animals - with selective being the key word. You are entitled to your views, and you are entitled to express them. However lets not apply human emotions to fish, they just simply don't have them.

It is through experimentation and culling that the hobby is driven forwards, otherwise the markets would be flooded with substandard fish. The fish shown above is substandard in many ways, not least of which is the peppering and that's before we get onto it being stunted, the imbalanced and out of proportion fins, the lousy eye, and the awful patterning, the dreadful shape and not forgetting the notch in it's nose ...

Some will choose not to get it, that's ok, as I said earlier with experience we sometimes find wisdom, some will argue about it and some may even be happy to have such a fish in their tanks. Again as I said, each to their own.

[brewmaster15]

...It is through experimentation and culling that the hobby is driven forwards, otherwise the markets would be flooded with substandard fish. The fish shown above is substandard in many ways, not least of which is the peppering and that's before we get onto it being stunted, the imbalanced and out of proportion fins, the lousy eye, and the awful patterning, the dreadful shape and not forgetting the notch in it's nose ...

Some will choose not to get it, that's ok, as I said earlier with experience we sometimes find wisdom, some will argue about it and some may even be happy to have such a fish in their tanks. Again as I said, each to their own.

Agree 100%

[Second Hand Pat]

At what point did I say cull?

btw cull is the correct term here - i.e. selective slaughter of animals - with selective being the key word. You are entitled to your views, and you are entitled to express them. However lets not apply human emotions to fish, they just simply don't have them.

It is through experimentation and culling that the hobby is driven forwards, otherwise the markets would be flooded with substandard fish. The fish shown above is substandard in many ways, not least of which is the peppering and that's before we get onto it being stunted, the imbalanced and out of proportion fins, the lousy eye, and the awful patterning, the dreadful shape and not forgetting the notch in it's nose ...

Some will choose not to get it, that's ok, as I said earlier with experience we sometimes find wisdom, some will argue about it and some may even be happy to have such a fish in their tanks. Again as I said, each to their own.

Not only do I agree with this 100% but this is also done in the breeding of any animal and shows a responsible breeder, farmer, rancher or hobbyist. Also non-native animals should never be released in the wild but should be kept in captive life or culled. Otherwise non-native species wrack havoc on native animal populations. The state I live in is a prime example of this.

[Fish24]

So lets say that you are married and have kids. Someone breaks into your house and is doing some unspeakable act to your spouse or kids. You have the power to stop it but it would be taking the life of the criminal. Would you do it?


-john

This statement or whatever you wish to call it is ridiculous and STUPID. Not only would a logical person NEVER compare this with that but it is just not the same thing.
Also for some other experienced hobbyists, a "post amount" does not mean someone is inexperienced in this hobby or discus. Some like myself just never bothered or knew of sites like this. With all of that said Lol I rather enjoy this site and some of the extremist as well. ;)

[a.person61]

However lets not apply human emotions to fish, they just simply don't have them.
we have invancned brains due to cooked meat sea, food ect. They do not, lets not put that in with the mix


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[nc0gnet0]

we have invancned brains due to cooked meat sea, food ect.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/pondering-and-thinking-smiley-emoticon.gif

[John_Nicholson]

Why don't you show the whole post so you can see its context? I was making a point. If you would like to dscuss this in any type of rational manner we can. If you just want to show your arse then I can't.

-john


This statement or whatever you wish to call it is ridiculous and STUPID. Not only would a logical person NEVER compare this with that but it is just not the same thing.
Also for some other experienced hobbyists, a "post amount" does not mean someone is inexperienced in this hobby or discus. Some like myself just never bothered or knew of sites like this. With all of that said Lol I rather enjoy this site and some of the extremist as well. ;)

[Tankster]

Death is happening around you all day, some even at the sole of your shoe. Fish are fish are fish, we catch them for both sport and food, eat them, use them for bait and extract oil from them for cooking and health.
In this hobby, culling a fish like that is a good thing. If you feel bad about it, put it in your garden so the circle of life can continue.

Some people just don't have the heart though so kindly keep this fish out of the genetic pool and do not breed it.

What John, or whoever it was said don't put human emotion on fish, he was not talking about the fish, he was talking about your emotions. Fish could really give a rats *** for anything but food and clean water. everything else is instinct.

Just my opinion. Not sure why some people get so worked up over this stuff.

p.s. - that second photo looks to have some extreme digital color enhancement with the blue cranked WAY up.

[Kohen]

Nice looking fish. Thanks for sharing.

[warblad79]

Culling is good because its stop transfering the bad gene, thats why selective breeding is very important.

[PepoMorales]

Man that is a really cool discus!! Beauty is always subjective. Care less about all those "Ol' grumpy perfectionist" discus breeders! Iif you like it to the heck with all of them!! If you dont like it I have a home fot him

[rickztahone]

Man that is a really cool discus!! Beauty is always subjective. Care less about all those "Ol' grumpy perfectionist" discus breeders! Iif you like it to the heck with all of them!! If you dont like it I have a home fot him

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as mentioned prior, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, those "ol grumpy perfectionist's" as you so call them, are the the ones that have the experience when new members, such as yourself, run to when their discus are sick for help. Stay in the hobby for a while, this goes to all of the people that think that it is a "cool" fish, and re-evalute your stance on the "coolness" of that fish in a few months. Please, hit that subscribe to thread button on the top right and come back to it later ;)

[a.person61]

To all that think killing is a good thing. Shame on you for thinking its ok to take a helpless life

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[Kohen]

Please send it to me if no one wants him/her. I'llgive it a good home.

[pcsb23]

There have been a number of responses on this thread which have selectively quoted parts of a previous reply. This is fine as long as it keeps context, when it doesn't it can easily provoke a flame war. I'd suggest to be careful when selectively quoting such that context is maintained. I have little doubt that some like to do this deliberately to provoke a fight, they may or may not be participating in this thread. To those I have a very simple statement. Don't.

Back to the topic on hand ...

There have been many experienced and proven discus keepers trying very hard to put a balanced view on this. We have all agreed that each to their own, yet some still want to try and make this some sort of moral issue or even suggest that this fish "may" be some sort of stellar high quality animal. The latter all appear to be new to the hobby. Perhaps they should stop and think that maybe, just maybe, there is a reason why those with experience are saying this fish is poor quality.



And now for this ...

we have invancned brains due to cooked meat sea, food ect. They do not, lets not put that in with the mix


Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk 2Sorry but I am having problems understanding what you have written, let alone the fact that you only quoted a tiny bit of my response. That snippet was in response to your statement that "Love it, And it will love you." No it won't, it is a fish and cannot express human emotions.

[a.person61]

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as mentioned prior, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, those "ol grumpy perfectionist's" as you so call them, are the the ones that have the experience when new members, such as yourself, run to when their discus are sick for help. Stay in the hobby for a while, this goes to all of the people that think that it is a "cool" fish, and re-evalute your stance on the "coolness" of that fish in a few months. Please, hit that subscribe to thread button on the top right and come back to it later ;)

one may have 5 years if discus keeping. That dosn't mean they know it all and give the newbies a wrong answer resulting in a life loss (the fish). He may not look to well with 4 others but with 8 others he will work a treat (thats my opinion)

pcsb23 back back in the past when the meteors fell on earth the monkeys that were involving to be us went to the coast and ate sea food doing that developed our brains more years to come we ate cooked meat which also developed our brains back befor all that we were just like fish.

maybe its time to end this thred its getting out of hand.

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[John_Nicholson]

a.persom61 judging from your reply's can I guess that you are a vegan? If so this has nothing to do with the fish. It has to do with your deeply rooted minority view on the place of animals and humans. If that is the case then there is no need to discuss this further because we would never disagree. The fish is very poor from a confirmation stand point and the vast majority of discus keepers would hate it color.

-john

[trungnguyen]

Death is happening around you all day, some even at the sole of your shoe. Fish are fish are fish, we catch them for both sport and food, eat them, use them for bait and extract oil from them for cooking and health.
In this hobby, culling a fish like that is a good thing. If you feel bad about it, put it in your garden so the circle of life can continue.

Some people just don't have the heart though so kindly keep this fish out of the genetic pool and do not breed it.

What John, or whoever it was said don't put human emotion on fish, he was not talking about the fish, he was talking about your emotions. Fish could really give a rats *** for anything but food and clean water. everything else is instinct.

Just my opinion. Not sure why some people get so worked up over this stuff.

p.s. - that second photo looks to have some extreme digital color enhancement with the blue cranked WAY up.

+1

[nc0gnet0]

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/fishing_zpsee48d7ed.jpg


+

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/georgeimage_zps0224ab3e.jpg

=

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBJmLudvaz-P6NxedgQfZ0_w7T34TayX9rLSSYixHayn_hj2dU6AYAYtDq

[Skip]

I don't know were all these veiled attacks are coming from?... using new terms for what use to be expert..

for those of u critizing people for their vast knowledge and experience. . U should think twice.. they have produced better fish then u will ever see.. proven track records of spawns and raising spawns to adults..

but I tell u what.. these will be the same people u will cry for when ur beautiful fish is having problems cuz u dont really know what ur doing.., and u will ask for the experts. .

I think this thread had answer already.., its a pigeon blood. ..


For those that joined simply. . There are many threads on why people cull.., find them.. read them.. but attack people with ur subtle name calling..

[jmf3460]

we have invancned brains due to cooked meat sea, food ect.

I just wanted to post this again....

[warblad79]

To all that think killing is a good thing. Shame on you for thinking its ok to take a helpless life

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People kills cow, goat, chicken and pig everyday for human comsumption.

[Disgirl]

I haven't read all the thread, however it seems that aperson61 is only 13 yrs. old.
Barb

[flame83]

[QUOTE=nc0gnet0;1107159]


http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/pondering-and-thinking-smiley-emoticon.gif[/QUO


HAHAHA .... perfect emoticon... need not say anything .!!

[Frankr409]

Interesting..