When to remove the parents from the babies....

[HD_3]

I have a batch of about 30 (give or take a few) swimmers that are almost 3 weeks old. For the past week, they had been all over mom and not so much dad. Now the past day or so, they are all over dad, and not so much mom.

To me this is fine as the babies are getting much larger. I've been feeding bbs to the babies for awhile now, and it seems like they are eating it, but they still seem like they need mom and dad. (Although, last night, several of them were on the other side of the tank from the parents.)

However, mom and dad seem to be starting to "squabble" a bit with each other. The male will push the female out of the way, and then a little later the female will chase the male away. The poor babies don't know what to do so they scatter and then eventually will go back to mom or dad.

Would it be time to pull the parents... or just the mom, or just the dad?

I've never gotten fry to this point before, so I don't want to pull the parents too early and then have the fry still need them.


Thoughts?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[John_Nicholson]

I have pulled fry as young as 10 days before but normally do it around day 21. My fry are normally killing the BBS by then and already eating BH at least a little.

-john

[Miamiheat]

sorry to barge in the thread but since the issue is related i don't see the point of starting a new thread: like HD_3 mentioned i did get my first good batch of fry (by good i mean 100+ and attached and fed off parents etc etc). since i lost fry so many times i separated parents at day 17 (wasn't too sure of their age but just reconfirmed with calendar). Anecdote parents are about to spawn again in another tank. I am feeding them with microworms and loads of BBS morning and evening. Since i work all day i make sure there is loads of food. the tank being 260 liters i have a felling the water quality is not suffering that much, in the evening some more food and then i syphon the whole thing clean and replace 50% of the water. I do find a few dead ones but there are still 80+. Should i change anything in this maintenance schedulel?

[Larry Bugg]

80+ out of 100+ is a significant loss. 20%. I like the tank size, 260 liters (68 gallons), for that batch size but the tank isn't so large that you can skimp. You say you make sure there is "loads of food", are you saying that you leave loads of food in the tank all day while you are gone to work? I would think you water quality is suffering and that is the reason for the 20% loss. With that many fry, I do two 100% water changes daily.

[Miamiheat]

Thanks for fast answer Yes I leave the food in the tank as I am gone from 7 or 8 til about 7pm every day. I may be able to squeeze an extra water change but about the food not sure what to do.

[Larry Bugg]

I would rather have less feedings and cleaner water. Feed before you go to work and don't leave loads of food in the tank. Feed when you get home from work and then feed before going to bed. Three feedings a day will be just fine. CLEAN water is the KEY!!

[Miamiheat]

Gotcha thank you very much

[JulieM]

This is the first time I've got this far with fry. They are nearly three weeks old and show no or very little interest in the frozen bbs I have been putting into the tank, it dissolves almost instantly but they all seem to prefer eating off mum or dad. What do I do, they are not what I would call free swimming as they just dart from one spot to another on mum or day, they don't venture far at all. Do I leave them with mum and dad I or move them into their growing out tank? Mum and dad don't seem to mind and whatever it is they are eating must be good tucker as they are growing very well.
Please advise,
Julie
PS bbs eggs are unavailable in Cairns atm so have to use the frozen variety.
PPS the growing out tank is three foot, 150 litres, bb but can I put in any thing, like potted plants or a wood structure or does it have to be completely bare and how long will a tank this size lasts if must of my fry survive, there are about 35 now.
Sorry for so many questions but I don't want to stuff it up seeing I've come this far, or the fry have come this far I should say.
Julie

[Miamiheat]

I have fry 23/24 days so very similar age to yours. I am a beginner so what I will say now is simply what I observed with this batch: they stick to parents but occasionally they venture away. But they do come back quickly to parents. I separated mine by fear of parents turning against them. Today they eat microworns BBS and even beef heart. I may be wrong but I think if you leave them all together they will continue to feed off parents just like a kid being breast-fed. I have been told that as soon as parents get ready to lay eggs again they would eat the fry. Check a few threads but I think 3 weeks is the maximum recommended to leave them together. Good luck

[Larry Bugg]

Free swimming is the term used to describe when they no longer are stuck to the cone or material the eggs were laid on. As soon as they are able to swim they are free swimmers. Normally when we give the age of discus we refer to the date they went free swimming as being day 1. You said yours are 3 weeks old and I'm just guessing but you are probably referring to when the eggs were laid or hatched? They would make them closer to 2 weeks old in the terms we normally use. I've never used frozen bbs so I can't speak to that. With just 35 fry, mom and dad may very well be able to feed them properly but this won't last much longer. With a typical spawn of 100 to 200, mom and dad cannot provide enough for them to all eat so we have to supplement. By the end of the first week or so they should be eating as much from the supplement as they are from mom and dad. At about 2 weeks old you should see them spending less and less time with mom and dad and spending more time swimming on their own. By this time they will still eat a little from the parents but I find most of their feeding in the 2nd to 3rd week is the supplement that I am feeding them. At this age you should also be able to feed them normal foods that adults eat, you just need to grind it up so it is small enough for them.

[Larry Bugg]

I have fry 23/24 days so very similar age to yours. I am a beginner so what I will say now is simply what I observed with this batch: they stick to parents but occasionally they venture away. But they do come back quickly to parents. I separated mine by fear of parents turning against them. Today they eat microworns bus and even beef heart. I may be wrong but I think if you leave them all together they will continue to feed off parents just like a kid being breast_fed. I have been told that as soon as parents get ready to lay eggs again they would eat the fry. Check a few threads but I think 3 weeks is the maximum recommend to leave them together. Good luck

Between 2 and 3 weeks old the fry will slowly stop eating off the parents on their own as long as a good supplement is provided for them. While they may continue to feed a little off the parents they will not choose the parents over the supplement like the breast milk analogy.

[Miamiheat]

Between 2 and 3 weeks old the fry will slowly stop eating off the parents on their own as long as a good supplement is provided for them. While they may continue to feed a little off the parents they will not choose the parents over the supplement like the breast milk analogy.

Than you Larry for clarifying.

[JulieM]

Thank you so much for all the info Larry, that had cleared things up a lot and yes you were correct with my age miscalculation. There is so much to learn and understand, thanks again, Julie.

[JulieM]

I don't know how to do the quote copy bit but apart from the fry, heater sponge on the intake, can anything else go in the growing out tank, plants etc....

[Larry Bugg]

This is the first time I've got this far with fry. They are nearly three weeks old and show no or very little interest in the frozen bbs I have been putting into the tank, it dissolves almost instantly but they all seem to prefer eating off mum or dad. What do I do, they are not what I would call free swimming as they just dart from one spot to another on mum or day, they don't venture far at all. Do I leave them with mum and dad I or move them into their growing out tank? Mum and dad don't seem to mind and whatever it is they are eating must be good tucker as they are growing very well.
Please advise,
Julie
PS bbs eggs are unavailable in Cairns atm so have to use the frozen variety.
PPS the growing out tank is three foot, 150 litres, bb but can I put in any thing, like potted plants or a wood structure or does it have to be completely bare and how long will a tank this size lasts if must of my fry survive, there are about 35 now.
Sorry for so many questions but I don't want to stuff it up seeing I've come this far, or the fry have come this far I should say.
Julie

Here are some of mine that are now 17 days free swimming. As you can see they do still hang out with mom and day but that don't eat off of them much any more. The parents weren't very happy with me taking the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TChL4Bpi3mY&feature=youtu.be

[Second Hand Pat]

I don't know how to do the quote copy bit but apart from the fry, heater sponge on the intake, can anything else go in the growing out tank, plants etc....

Hi Julie, it is best to not add extra things to the grow out tank IMO as it gets in the way of keeping the tank clean. Heater and sponge filter are really all the fry need in the tank and daily WCs and plenty of good food. :D
Pat

[Quintin]

You can never ask to many questions.Just take the advice givven to you by more experienced discus keepers.people get upset when people do thier own thing after being shown the rite way and they wonder why things go wrong,you guys are lucky to have fry so early on start a thread on thier progress good or bad.it will be interesting to see a year down the line how many survived and what size they got to.

Kind Regards
Quintin (also beginner)

[JulieM]

Loved the video Larry and you are right the parents don't look to impressed,. My babies have started to move further away from mum and dad now and are eating a bit of the food I put in. I have finally got hold of some brine shrimp eggs and they are hatching as we speak, from all accounts it may be a bit late to start the fry on them but I will anyway, live food is the best I think. Can you tell me what can go in their grow out tank. I've been checking out a lot of forum posts but can't find an answer anywhere and the fry will be moved into that tank soon. They will look so tiny in a big tank they will get lost, I'm sure. LOL

[Larry Bugg]

Loved the video Larry and you are right the parents don't look to impressed,. My babies have started to move further away from mum and dad now and are eating a bit of the food I put in. I have finally got hold of some brine shrimp eggs and they are hatching as we speak, from all accounts it may be a bit late to start the fry on them but I will anyway, live food is the best I think. Can you tell me what can go in their grow out tank. I've been checking out a lot of forum posts but can't find an answer anywhere and the fry will be moved into that tank soon. They will look so tiny in a big tank they will get lost, I'm sure. LOL

My personal preference is.............absolutely nothing but the sponge filter and heater. I want to take the best opportunity I can to grow out my discus. For me this means two 100% water changes daily and siphoning the bottom after each feeding. This can be time consuming and I want it as simple as I can get it. The best thing you can do for growing out discus is keep them in very clean water. Having "stuff" in the tank slows me down and depending on what the item is, provides more chance for gunk and dirty water.

[JulieM]

I just found the other answers to my questions, thank you Quinton. I'll take the things that are in the grow out tank out. My son set it up for me and I did tell him it has to be bare but children never seem to listen to their parents no matter how old they are. I was very lucky with this pair, they were in my show/community tank and I had no intention of breeding discus but this pair had other thoughts, so I moved them into their own tank and let nature take it's course and it did. It has been a steep learning curve for me though, I'm loving it but am so afraid of doing something wrong and losing all my babies. Hence the mountain of questions, I'm so pleased and grateful that I found Simply.

[JulieM]

What size is your first grow out tank Larry? I plan on putting my fry into a three foot tank and for me to do two 100% water changes a day would probably take me all day. That's 150 litres per change, as I said I'm quite new to this breeding discus thing and I am am not set up for it so that's a lot of buckets of water to carry and cart to the tank. WHAT HAVE I LET MYSELF IN FOR.....I'm not a spring chicken anymore.

[Larry Bugg]

What size is your first grow out tank Larry? I plan on putting my fry into a three foot tank and for me to do two 100% water changes a day would probably take me all day. That's 150 litres per change, as I said I'm quite new to this breeding discus thing and I am am not set up for it so that's a lot of buckets of water to carry and cart to the tank. WHAT HAVE I LET MYSELF IN FOR.....I'm not a spring chicken anymore.

Exactly the tank size you are talking about. I like them in 40 gallon Breeders. It is a great size for a grow out. You need some way to make the water changes easier. If you had room you could use a large trash can for storing water. Here in the US a lot of people use Rubbermaid 44 gallon heavy duty trash cans to store the water in. Then they use a water pump and tubing to pump the water out of the can and into the tank. Really makes it easier. You can also get something like a small furniture dolly with caster wheels that the trash can will sit on so you could roll it from a storage location to the tank.

[JulieM]

Wow that sounds great and so easy to get set up, I'm off to my local hardware store to get myself a couple of trash/rubbish cans I already have a trolley I can use. Thanks for the info. WOW I'm still amazed it's so simple.

[JulieM]

Quinton mention earlier in this thread that I should start a thread of my own, with photos of the progress of my first spawn. I thought maybe I would do that as I have some photos already. My question is under what heading would I do it? I don't want to be in trouble for putting it in the wrong place , perhaps other members have already done something similar I could start mine there. There isn't a heading like. 'My spawns progress' and you could start your own thread there for people to check out your progress. I know I would check others out even just as a comparison with your our discus.