Newbie to Discus - Please help

[BR1AN]

Hi, this is my first post on the forum, and I am new to discus. Some background information on me. I have had a mixed community tank (15 Tall) for 2 years. It is pretty basic, but it is doing great. I decided to get a new tank a few months ago. I bought a 29 Gallon and set it up as a planted tank. I spent a lot of time planning an setting it up, I have a Fluvial 206 canister filter on it. While researching dirted tanks, I ran into some videos with Discus and fell in love. After cycling the new tank, I went to the local pet store to get some fish. Randomly the owner mentioned Discus and talked me into getting a pair of juveniles (2.5-3") . I feel like I was taken by a used car salesman, I was so excited at the time I bought them, but I knew that I really should have had a bigger tank and more discus (I am not going back to that store anymore). I would get a new tank right now if my fiance would let me. I really like them so I do not want to return or sell them so I have a few questions but before I get into that lets talk about some stats.

My water out of the tap has a Ph of 7.6 my tank has a Ph of 7.8, I know it is high but they seem to have acclimated to it fine.
Ammonia - 0ppp
Nitrites - 0ppm
Nitrates - 0ppm
I am not sure how hard the water is.
The water temperature is 84 F
I have six rummy nose tetra, two cory cats, and the two turquoise discus.

Currently I am doing 30% water changes twice a week, but I monitor Ammonia on a daily basics and I can adjust as necessary. (I treat the new water with Prime)
I have one heater, that is new, but I plan to get a second soon so I have a back up.
Again I am using a canister filter, a Fluval 206, which is good for a 45 gallon aquarium.
Currently I am feeding them Brine Shrimp and Blood worms, but I just order Colbolt Discus Pellets which I want to train them on as their main diet, with other food as treats.

I have a planted tank, with a dirt substrate and a sand cap. If you are not familiar with a dirted tank you should be they are awesome. The plants are still growing in, but they are doing good, despite the high temperatures. I think the dirt/sand/plant mix is really helping to keep my Nitrates as low as they are.



Okay so now for my questions.

1) Eventually I will get a new bigger tank for these guys, either a 55 or a 75. If I bought two more 3-4" juveniles (from a reputable dealer such as Discus Hans) how long would it be before the out grew the 29 gallon tank? Will the discus be happy with 4 or do I really need 6? If I need 6, then how long before they grow out of the tank?

2) They do have their stress bars showing, sometime more pronounced than others. I am thinking that it is because there are not enough of them, but I have also read that young discus show them frequently. Is that true?

3) One of the fish is always upright, the other leans to the side every once and a while for a few seconds. Is that normal?

4) Should I do more water changes even though the parameters are pretty much perfect?

5) I still have the activated carbon in my filter, I have heard that it is not good for discus. Is that true? Why is it not good for the discus? Would you recommend replacing it with anything else?

6) I have had them for a week so far, they are eating, but not as well as I would hope. They just pick at the Brine Shrimp off of the ground and I have not seen them eat a blood worm. Is that a problem, or will it get better with time?

Again, I know that I might not be starting out in the perfect way, but I have been doing a lot of research, and I feel that I can make this work. I like my tanks to be beautiful, so I am not afraid of maintenance and water changes. I want to make the most of the situation, and above all else, I want my fish to be happy and healthy. I am looking for some help finding solutions, thanks in advance.

Brian

[John_Nicholson]

How to say this.....I will give you the best advice I can but after reading the above I would put your chances of success very low. First it is best to raise discus in groups of at least 6....but your tank is too small already so they is no good way to add more fish. Most experienced people will tell you that it is best to raise discus in a bare bottom tank. Most of us do at least a 50% water change a day. In a planted thank that would probably not be enough. Ph does not really matter. What matters is really clean water, really good high protein foods, and starting with healthy stock of good quality. In a planted tank with only 2 30% water changes a week your water will not be clean enough. You bought fish from a LFS that are of questionable quality and health. You only have 2 discus. They are not eating well which points to poor healthy. Healthy discus eat well. So you have stacked the cards against yourself. They only real answer for me would be to buy a 75 gallon tank. Go bare bottom, buy 6 fish from a good source. No way in hell I would spend money on good fish and then expose them to whatever the cheap LFS discus are carrying. Start feeding a high protein diet like beef heart mix. Start changing 50% of your water a day.

-john

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Brian, first welcome to Simply and but man, I will be bursting your bubble and I am sorry for that but you are raising your discus in the worst possible way for someone new to discus and planted tank. You see, there is a different skill set for planted tanks and discus. Mixing the two in the same tank requires a careful balancing act to address the basic needs of both and require a fair amount of knowledge and practice over time to acquire those skills.

The best you could do for your discus is to buy at least a 55 gallon (75 is better), paint the out of the bottom and sides and raise a group of six discus (minimum) in a bare bottom tank with a couple of sponge filters. The young discus will require large daily WCs with a daily tank cleaning and several feedings a day. I would also suggest you research discus like you did planted tanks.

Now back to your discus. As you have noted the discus are already having issues (not eating well, leaning to the side) plus most often most LFS discus are not healthy and good quality discus. The best you could do for them is to pull the plants and substrate and make the tank BB. For today however you can start doing large, daily WCs and vacuum the heck out of your substrate, feed lightly and hope the appetite improves for your discus. You might want to read up on aging, aerating and heating your water in a WC barrow before use.
Pat

[BR1AN]

Thanks for the dose of reality John and Pat. I just finished a water change and did remove more, I will up the schedule and see how things progress.

[turbodriven04]

So is it that he only has 2 discus or that he is not doing enough WCs? I have a 60g tank with 4 discus and 2 more on order. My tank is low tech planted and do a 50% WC every Saturday. I feed every other day and mine are doing beautifully? Forgive me if the answer is staring me right in the face. I'm here to learn too.

[John_Nicholson]

So is it that he only has 2 discus or that he is not doing enough WCs? I have a 60g tank with 4 discus and 2 more on order. My tank is low tech planted and do a 50% WC every Saturday. I feed every other day and mine are doing beautifully? Forgive me if the answer is staring me right in the face. I'm here to learn too.


Its both. Also not to sound harsh but I have read post like your for years. They normally end up with the fish getting sick "all of a sudden" after a few months. The ones that don't get sick normally growout to about 65%-70% of their potential. I have had lots of people tell me otherwise but when I take the time to go to their houses or when they come to mine the true truth shines like a diamond in a goats ***. They can be raise in a palnted tank but your margin of error is extremely low. I have had lots of fish get to double digits in age. I have spawned fish over 8 years of age. It is because the fish are in a healthy enviroment. Lots of people feel they are a success because they keep them alive for a few months. That kind of "success" just does not work for me.

-john

[turbodriven04]

Not harsh at all. I'm new to Discus but seems like I've had good luck so far. I'm just a hobbyist and like the fish. Sounds like you have some experience under your belt and raise champion fish. I just like the colors lol. All my Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrate tests have been zero. I use 4 stage RO/DI water that goes into a 55 gallon holding barrel that is heated.

PS. I see you're in Caddo Mills, I'm from Kaufman.

[John_Nicholson]

Not harsh at all. I'm new to Discus but seems like I've had good luck so far. I'm just a hobbyist and like the fish. Sounds like you have some experience under your belt and raise champion fish. I just like the colors lol. All my Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrate tests have been zero. I use 4 stage RO/DI water that goes into a 55 gallon holding barrel that is heated.

PS. I see you're in Caddo Mills, I'm from Kaufman.

Next time your up this way let me know. You can drop by the fish house and we will talk fish. My inlaws use to live in Kaufman and my oldest daughter was born there in '87.

-john

[turbodriven04]

John, how do I PM you?

[DLFL]

John, how do I PM you? You have to have 10 post I believe. I posted in the media section on how nice the photos of fish were to get to ten quickly.

[turbodriven04]

Thanks. I knew that.:o

[aquadon2222]

You won't grow out any fish to their max potential with that set up. But if you want a planted tank and your discus to be the feature fish merely for the aesthetics and fun of having an aquarium, you're not far off. IMO A 2x/week 30% should be fine, just stay on top of your water parameters. Shrimp are solid protein and start the discus food chain in the Amazon, bloodworms are fine, too but they don't have enough nutrition as a staple. Discus are schooling fish, so shoot for one fish per 6-10 gallons, minimum of ~5 fish, and they should be happy. Stress bars can come out for reasons other than stress, so imo I wouldn't sweat that too much. They should eat aggressively after acclimation to your tank - begging for food when they see you, and catching the shrimp and worms as they fall. If they don't that could indicate a problem. They will however, pick off the bottom as part of their natural feeding habits.
Good luck and have fun !