2 month and my 5 Discus have not settling in/scared of me

[Aquacrazed]

My group of 5 Discus (5 - 5.5") have been in the tank (55g) for more than 2 months and they still haven't fully settled in. They are eating well, have formed 2 pairs and have laid eggs 4 times. They are very scared of me, they hide every time I come in front of the tank - except at night when all the lights in the room are turned off and only the aquarium light is on.

Water temp: 83F
pH 6.5 - 6.8, Amonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate almost 0
Water changes: Two 50% water changes per week.
Feedings: 2-3 times/day (freeze dried blackworms, hikari frozen bloodworms, hikari discus bio-gold)
Discus only tank with a few Amano shrimp & Nerite snails

Any ideas/suggestions? Thanks.

[OC Discus]

Pairing might be distracting them from bonding with you. It may just take more time. They are focused on each other and their eggs. As long as they are healthy, it shouldn't be anything to worry about.

[Keith Perkins]

I'd start by increasing your WCs a little, like by 5 a week. Get your hand and siphon right in among them and force them to get use to you. You're babying them and they're training you. IME within 2 weeks they'll be acting better when you walk in the room.

[aquadon2222]

Do you have cover for them? i.e. wood, rocks, plants etc...also try hand feeding them - also let them know you're coming by waving your arms or something and they should come up and beg, good luck.

[Chad Adams]

Do you have cover for them? i.e. wood, rocks, plants etc...also try hand feeding them - also let them know you're coming by waving your arms or something and they should come up and beg, good luck.

If your fish are scared of you or anyone else coming into the room, then putting crap in the tank for them to run into is just a bad idea!

Let alone the recommendation of adding plants?? That's ridiculous!

Do yourself a favor and listen to what Keith has said.

Chad

[OC Discus]

It just takes time. Before long they won't move for the siphon and you'll have to push them out of the way.


I'd start by increasing your WCs a little, like by 5 a week. Get your hand and siphon right in among them and force them to get use to you. You're babying them and they're training you. IME within 2 weeks they'll be acting better when you walk in the room.

[Chad Adams]

also let them know you're coming by waving your arms or something.

Forgot about this gem, since I was so distracted about the first dumb idea.

Yeah come in flailing your arms and stuff, that makes scared discus feel a lot more comfortable!!

Don, why don't you learn a little bit first before offering such awful advice. You're gonna get somebody's fish killed!

Chad

[OC Discus]

I agree with Chad that waving your arms is a bad idea. Sudden movements startle even established fish. It is better to move very slowly toward the tank. Maybe stand back and watch them first, letting them see you before you slowly move toward the tank. Even people can be startled by sudden movements and loud noises.

This question came up awhile back. Someone suggested smaller feedings more frequently. That way they start to anticipate you coming to the tank. Even if you only feed 2 or 3 times a day, put in 1/3 to 1/2 of the food. Step away for a few minutes. Come back, put in the rest of the food. If you do this like six times a day they will get used to you pretty fast.

There could also be something else making them uncomfortable, like poor water quality.


Forgot about this gem, since I was so distracted about the first dumb idea.

Yeah come in flailing your arms and stuff, that makes scared discus feel a lot more comfortable!!

Don, why don't you learn a little bit first before offering such awful advice. You're gonna get somebody's fish killed!

Chad

[nc0gnet0]

How about some pictures of the tank?

[yim11]

What Mud said. Any part of the tank painted/covered, especially the bottom?

[pcsb23]

I'd start by increasing your WCs a little, like by 5 a week. Get your hand and siphon right in among them and force them to get use to you. You're babying them and they're training you. IME within 2 weeks they'll be acting better when you walk in the room.
This ^^^ spot on :)

[Aquacrazed]

Thanks guys, appreciate the advice. I will try to get them more used to me with the more frequent small feedings and also by doing daily siphoning (i got a Eheim quick vac pro). I am pretty confident my water quality is good, i check it a few times a week. Attached is a picture of the tank:

http://s27.postimg.org/sk4uszp9v/discus3.png

[Aquacrazed]

hm... looks like i'm on some kind of moderator watch list, my post didn't post. here's a shot of my tank, they hide behind the large piece of driftwood on the left corner.

http://s27.postimg.org/sk4uszp9v/discus3.png

[aquadon2222]

If your fish are scared of you or anyone else coming into the room, then putting crap in the tank for them to run into is just a bad idea!

Let alone the recommendation of adding plants?? That's ridiculous!

Do yourself a favor and listen to what Keith has said.

Chad
If your fish came from a tank with cover: wood, plants, heck, a spongebob treasure chest, anything - placing them into a bare cube with lights can affect their behavior and make them uncomfortable and skittish unless they were raised that way. Generally speaking, discus like cover.

As far as getting comfortable to you, they need to see you and learn that you're not a threat but rather a friendly source of food. I make it a habit at feeding time to show them the food as I walk toward the aquarium, waving it above the tank for a bit, then hand feeding; they will soon get comfortable with you walking around the tank and seeing your hands in there, too. Siphoning and vacuuming helps this, too. Good luck

[Second Hand Pat]

hm... looks like i'm on some kind of moderator watch list, my post didn't post...[/IMG]

Not a watch list. Just a new member.

[OC Discus]

Attractive tank. I like the background and branches.


Thanks guys, appreciate the advice. I will try to get them more used to me with the more frequent small feedings and also by doing daily siphoning (i got a Eheim quick vac pro). I am pretty confident my water quality is good, i check it a few times a week. Attached is a picture of the tank:

http://s27.postimg.org/sk4uszp9v/discus3.png

[ericNH]

I think you should try doing a tumble first, then pop up and wave your arms around, to really get their attention when you come into the room.

omg i'm crying

[Aquacrazed]

So it's been a week since I started doing more siphoning and water changes and also more frequent feedings (3-4 times) and the situation has not improved. In fact they seem even more scared of me now. Any other ideas? Thanks.

OC Discus, thanks for the comment on my tank ;)

[OC Discus]

It's like waiting for a rose to bloom- you just have to take care of it and wait for it. You can't force it.


So it's been a week since I started doing more siphoning and water changes and also more frequent feedings (3-4 times) and the situation has not improved. In fact they seem even more scared of me now. Any other ideas? Thanks.

OC Discus, thanks for the comment on my tank ;)

[Aquacrazed]

It's exactly a month since I posted this and the situation has not improved. They are still deadly scared of me. Any ideas?

[Second Hand Pat]

What are they like with the tank light off?

[musicmarn1]

its a really pretty tank ! love it, have your kids have a play date right in front of the tank......after that they will think your an angel :evilgrin:

[philosopher]

its a really pretty tank ! love it, have your kids have a play date right in front of the tank......after that they will think your an angel :evilgrin:
:D :D

[dghby]

Hi Aquacrazed, nice looking tank. with that said and not to get any of the planted keepers out there upset, I had this same situation. you can check out my journal of one of my groups here
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?111723-Hans-Snakeskins/page4
I write about it in post #55. if you look thru the thread you will see I raised this group from 2.5 inches from a reputable source in a barebottom tank. they were constantly at the front of the tank acting like they were starved or something all the time and I fed them 4-6 times a day the first 6 months. very, very active and would never run when I entered the room.

then I moved them into the 120 gl that had plants ( more than yours ) which I decided was the only real difference. for a couple weeks all these 7 did was sit in the corner of the tank. I would sneak into the room and notice them out and about, then enter the room and they would take off to the corner. i done a few things to try and fix but to make a long story short, i removed all the plants.

almost immediately and definitely overnight they began being more approachable, this was 3 weeks ago and i now hand feed with no issues.

I am no expert on this but just giving you my own experience. since you don't have a lot of plants maybe be worth the try.

[klannin]

Well I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, I really am not that experienced with successful discus keeping. But I have kept fish tanks my entire life.

So I think perhaps adding another species like a faster moving, but not really large or aggressive tetra might do the trick. I think it is the electricity the active fish add. Also from a fish's pov in nature, when predators are away, the little fish play. I've had discus, and angel fish that completely came to life when I added tank mates like this.

I with discus or angels I have kept black neons, long finned black skirt tetras, long finned white skirts, long finned rosy barbs...the long finned ones are not as fast and theoretically less competitive for food. They all still eat a lot though. Just a thought.

I'm sure there are other fish that you can use as well.

[Aquacrazed]

Thanks guys, dghby & klannin those are some interesting points. Great looking Discus dghby. The only time they come out and are not scared of me is when the room is dark and only the aquarium light is on at night, they actually come to me. So i'm not sure why they are so freaked out when I come in front of the tank during the day. They are happily swimming around all over the tank when i'm very far away. There are a lot of windows in the room and there is a fair amount of light coming in during the day time (and the aquarium light is turned off during the day), maybe this has something to do with it?

[doublediscusjack]

Skittish discus and all that driftwood hanging down are not compatible, but are simply a disaster waiting to happen. I have been there; done that a good many years ago: Naturally spooky discus, which by nature, don't like strong lighting of any kind; don't like people and their hands swinging around spooking them, so, by nature (born defense mechanism), they dash when spooked, and sometimes run into the pointy driftwood, injuring themselves. What to do: 1. Decrease or eliminate light in room/aquarium, 2. Condition discus (train them) by doing what others suggest--- move slowly when around tank, never swing arms quickly around tank, let them know your presence first, before moving slowly, feed them small amounts frequently etc. In time they will get accustomed to your presence to some degree, but repeatedly do the wrong things, and they will not. Having them in well lighted rooms, well lighted aquariums, aquariums filled with junk they can hide behind, with people and/or their hands flashing around the tank, etc., all contribute to their remaining skittish, so why be surprised when it happens?

[dghby]

There are a lot of windows in the room and there is a fair amount of light coming in during the day time (and the aquarium light is turned off during the day), maybe this has something to do with it?
Discus come from area's that do not get a lot of natural sunlight, so it could also take some time for them to adapt.

[DISCUS STU]

If your fish are scared of you or anyone else coming into the room, then putting crap in the tank for them to run into is just a bad idea!

Let alone the recommendation of adding plants?? That's ridiculous!

Do yourself a favor and listen to what Keith has said.

Chad

It looks like a nice tank with healthy fish. Sometimes this problem can be tank placement in the room in relation to the door (behavioral)

If the room isn't that large, my fish seem less skittish when the tank has the shortest edge facing the part of the room that I come into first, giving them more room to run/swim, back up, if they feel they need to and are generally more comfortable.

If the tank presents the longest part to the door, especially in a smaller room, then sometimes they tend to be more nervous when I come in, less room front to back for them to back up or flee if necessary. Too many hiding places also seems to make them more shy, not less, and less comfortable with me in the room.

Like people, they need exposure to outside stimulation to become comfortable with it. Ever notice how fish in a public aquarium don't even notice people after a while? You can't make them freak out if you try. And Discus are more nervous/skittish than your average Cichlid or other type of fish.

Sometimes it just seems to be the placement of the tank in the room in relation to where I walk into the room that makes the difference. The same nervous fish immediately seem calm and more curious about me, (for food) when I will put them into another tank so I know it's not the fish as the water parameters will be the same in all tanks.

If the Discus are surprised by my sudden appearance in the room, (What's this? A predator that wants to eat me?, no room to flee!) then they can generally freak out. Discus also seem to have a fight, flight, or no threat instinct, just like other animals.

Assuming water parameters are good and they are generally not stressed out in other ways, sometimes it's environmental/behavioral.

[adapted]

I have encountered a similar problem with 8 adult wilds. For about 5 months they were fine in a tank with a little sand and some suspended driftwood. They didn't mind me at all and would come to the glass wanting food. Now for some reason they hide and from time to time dash madly for now apparent reason.

I don't think it's a water quality issue unless I'm missing something... I change half their water every day with aged filtered water, but the changes have no effect on their shyness/skittishess.


In any case, this has taken all the pleasure out of having these fish. I will either get it solved or move them out.

[OC Discus]

How about re-arranging the tank contents. People do this when adding a new fish to an existing group to re establish territories. In the case of all the driftwood above, perhaps removing the wood and rearranging the plants would help. That wood could be dangerous to a startled fish. Redecorating can be expensive, but if you like the result it's worth it.

[Russ]

In the past when my fish were skittish I noticed that if I wore white or light colored shirts around the tank they were more scared then if I wore black or darker colored shirts and it also helped when I had the tank lights on but the room lights off, but give it time they will get used to you eventually as long as the water conditions are ok and they are eating well. You might also try feeding frozen blood worms or another favorite food and sit in front of the tank until they come out and start eating so they associate you with something good, if they don't come out maybe try skipping a day of feeding and try again.

[discusnutts]

If all the other advise is still not helping te fish calm down (waving arms lmao)

Ive had fish stay skittish in a particular tank due to stray voltage, a failing heater or power head.

might want to check on that with a multimeter... also if u have a hang nail u can often feel it tingling if there is voltage in there

oh and many discus in the wild come crystal clear water

D

[Quintin]

Have you done check on your water yet as this sounds to be the problem.test your water properly just before and after water change.There has to be a problem somewhere and water quality seems to be it.

[Quintin]

And as mentiond earlier in the thread fish have calmed down after removing plants.With wild discus this mite not be the case as they are used to decor.but tank bred discus on the other hand are bred in BB and could be terrified and overwhelmed by all the plants and driftwood as they dont know what it is.

[runninlow]

ive had this problem a few weeks back which it never happen before. i know for sure that all my other discus knows me pretty. i could run up to the tank and tap the glass and they would all just come up and beg for food and swim to whichever corner i rush too. i found that it was because of a newly introduced discus i added from qurantine. He would start all the panick in the tank, after about the 5th time of my discus going crazy i started to observce this and found that if he panick it would start a train reaction and all the discus would go panick mode. What i did to contain this issue was totally removing him and change the environment he was in (added a tank upstairs where alot more people/dogs run around). after about a 2 weeks of him not freaking out i re-introduced him into the main tank and everything is fine now.

i would suggest 1. observe your tank and see why they are going into panick mode. 2. check what your wearing when you approach the tank, wearing dark colors coming up to the tank causes a bigger shadow and could freak them out. 3. are you sure someone isnt coming up to the tank and banging the glass when your not around. 4. tank space,(yes, yes, i know 55 gallon is good for 5 discus. but you have 2 breeding pairs and 1 single. i would suggest a bit bigger tank.) 5. check if you get a shock when you touch the tank or water. 6. hang out with them more and watch them.

just my suggestions if its stupid just dismiss this, im sure u have gotten all the advise you could possibly take in and try. good luck

[Phreeflow]

I think we all had this happen with our discus. Everyone had some really great points so I'll just share whats worked for me in the past. Removing all decorations, giving them smaller hand feedings while making sure I am not abnormally slow and deliberate so they associate whatever movements and noise I make as normal with feeding time, adding a small group of dither fish, once I had stray voltage from a pump...although I don't remember it affecting my fishes behavior as much as it did mine, and another time, it was a faint rattling from one of my older HOB filters that seemed to have them on edge. The impeller was old and the filter ran loud and caused the just the corner of the lid to rapidly buzz against the tank and that drove them nuts. Lol

[DISCUS STU]

I like the idea of the dithers. Discus sometimes need another species to "draw them out", though these days I'm using the Discus as dithers for my Altums!

All this is really good. Too many hiding places spoil the Discus and they can become reclusive and only feel safe behind objects in the tank when they see people. I rarely see this the other way in a completely bare tank. They're adaptable but they need the opportunity to adapt. It's a pain in the neck to move a tank around, but sometimes it's can be tank placement in the room in relation to the door and people traffic in and out.

[OC Discus]

If you add dither fish, be sure to research and follow quarantine procedures. They can introduce disease that they are immune to that will make the discus sick.

[Aquacrazed]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I am leaning towards the adding dither fish solution, probably a school for neons (8 ish), I think it would really look nice in addition to possibly bringing out the discus. I am concerned about the stocking level though (5 big discus (i'm thinking of adding 1 more), L144 pleco, 10 amano shrimp, 2 nerites snails currently).