Cross breeding questions

[XAnhLe]

I have a few questions that have been bother my mind lately. What happen when we cross two solids together? For example, a blue diamond and a sunshine. What will the offsprings look like for this particular pair?

How about a blue diamond with a platinum? will that give me platinum blue?

What cross should I stay away from in the future? What do you consider a bad cross?

[Rudustin]

Great question. I'm sure there must be a sticky somewhere on SD but I will look forward to reading responses to your question.

[OC Discus]

One cardinal rule is to avoid crossing pigeon blood with most other strains to avoid peppered offspring. Crosses between non pigeon blood solids produce a variety if interesting colors.


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[OC Discus]

Like Rufus said, you can search and find threads about crossing strains. Some are dominant and others recessive. So sometimes most or all of the fry will look like a single parent. Other times some fry might look like neither parent because of mixed previous strains.


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[XAnhLe]

One cardinal rule is to avoid crossing pigeon blood with most other strains to avoid peppered offspring. Crosses between non pigeon blood solids produce a variety if interesting colors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, that's why I'm staying away from PB as much as possible. :D


Great question. I'm sure there must be a sticky somewhere on SD but I will look forward to reading responses to your question.

I've been searching, can't find it yet. Hopeffully someone can shine some knowledge into our brains :D

I know that nC0gnit0 and John are probably the best people to ask about this topic, just have to wait for those two to response hehe

[Rudustin]

Yes I agree that one or both will be able to shed some light on your question. Rufus

[seanyuki]

Great insight here.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?64729-quot-Discus-Genetics-and-Breeding-Info-and-Discussion-quot

[seanyuki]

check out Rod Lewis threads.....very knowledgeable about genetics.hth




Yes, that's why I'm staying away from PB as much as possible. :D



I've been searching, can't find it yet. Hopeffully someone can shine some knowledge into our brains :D

I know that nC0gnit0 and John are probably the best people to ask about this topic, just have to wait for those two to response hehe

[nc0gnet0]

I honestly do not even know what a "sunshine" is, or for that matter a "platinum blue" so it makes it hard for me to comment. Pictures might help. Rod Lewis is the best at this type of question, maybe he can answer.

As for this question:


What do you consider a bad cross?

The answer is any cross that you are not willing to work with past the F1.

-Rick

[XAnhLe]

I honestly do not even know what a "sunshine" is, or for that matter a "platinum blue" so it makes it hard for me to comment. Pictures might help. Rod Lewis is the best at this type of question, maybe he can answer.

As for this question:



The answer is any cross that you are not willing to work with past the F1.

-Rick

Sunshine/sunrise

http://store.discusmadness.com/mm5/graphics/00000008/Sunshine%20Gold%205.5%20inc.jpg

Plat Blue

http://www.starallfish.com/products/Fish/Blue%20diamond%20platinum%20(Non%20Hormone).gif

[rdiscus]

I crossed solid pigeon with solid non-pigeon, fry look not bad at all, I will start thread soon

[XAnhLe]

I crossed solid pigeon with solid non-pigeon, fry look not bad at all, I will start thread soon

Glad to hear and I can't wait to see them! :)

[OC Discus]

Is the sunshine from Gwynbrook Farms? I think they are pigeon based but wouldn't swear to it.


Sunshine/sunrise

http://store.discusmadness.com/mm5/graphics/00000008/Sunshine%20Gold%205.5%20inc.jpg

Plat Blue

http://www.starallfish.com/products/Fish/Blue%20diamond%20platinum%20(Non%20Hormone).gif

[XAnhLe]

Is the sunshine from Gwynbrook Farms? I think they are pigeon based but wouldn't swear to it.

I'm not really sure. I don't have any sunshine atm. Thinking about picking up a fish tank that comes with a pair of BDxSunshine.

[John_Nicholson]

First the names that you are throwing out are just made up by the seller to separate you from your money. The trouble is we have no clue what the genetic makeup of the fish is. Did some "breeder" decide to cross something? When do a cross the F1 generation can throw all kinds of crap. They might look like a "strain" but that is just their phenotype. What should matter for breeding is their genotype. I try to discourage crosses for most people because they do not have the resources or dedication to do it properly. It takes years and years to develop anything new if you are lucky. You have to keep and raise thousands of fish in most cases. When you first start this journey you have to remember that the majority of the F1 generation is crap ( speaking strictly from a breeding standpoint. i.e. you end up with something that will throw predictable and desirable results ). Most people do not have a few hundred tanks or the desire to raise thousands of fish in hopes of getting a new desirable strain. If their is an existing strain that you are trying to reproduce take the easy way and just buy some.

Good luck.

-john

[XAnhLe]

First the names that you are throwing out are just made up by the seller to separate you from your money. The trouble is we have no clue what the genetic makeup of the fish is. Did some "breeder" decide to cross something? When do a cross the F1 generation can throw all kinds of crap. They might look like a "strain" but that is just their phenotype. What should matter for breeding is their genotype. I try to discourage crosses for most people because they do not have the resources or dedication to do it properly. It takes years and years to develop anything new if you are lucky. You have to keep and raise thousands of fish in most cases. When you first start this journey you have to remember that the majority of the F1 generation is crap ( speaking strictly from a breeding standpoint. i.e. you end up with something that will throw predictable and desirable results ). Most people do not have a few hundred tanks or the desire to raise thousands of fish in hopes of getting a new desirable strain. If their is an existing strain that you are trying to reproduce take the easy way and just buy some.

Good luck.

-john

Thanks John! That's very helpful. I have always wondered why there are similar discus with different names. Turned out it's just a marketing thing.

[nc0gnet0]

First the names that you are throwing out are just made up by the seller to separate you from your money. The trouble is we have no clue what the genetic makeup of the fish is. Did some "breeder" decide to cross something? When do a cross the F1 generation can throw all kinds of crap. They might look like a "strain" but that is just their phenotype. What should matter for breeding is their genotype. I try to discourage crosses for most people because they do not have the resources or dedication to do it properly. It takes years and years to develop anything new if you are lucky. You have to keep and raise thousands of fish in most cases. When you first start this journey you have to remember that the majority of the F1 generation is crap ( speaking strictly from a breeding standpoint. i.e. you end up with something that will throw predictable and desirable results ). Most people do not have a few hundred tanks or the desire to raise thousands of fish in hopes of getting a new desirable strain. If their is an existing strain that you are trying to reproduce take the easy way and just buy some.

Good luck.

-john

Dam, that's a whole lotta words to sum up what I said in one sentence........

:)

-Rick

[John_Nicholson]

Well I am always getting hit for my short and rude answers so I thought I would change it up....LOL.

-john

[nc0gnet0]

Ok, as I am unsure of the genetics of the sunshine (pb) I can't be positive but if I were to ponder a guess if you crossed the sunshine with the platinum blue (basically a pb to a blue diamond cross) you will get a fish like the one on the left here:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/***_zps17af940d.jpg

(Which I appropriately named after John BTW)

There might be a little variation with some yellow hue but that is pretty much it. Not a very pretty fish IMO. However, if you want to carry it to the next generation (this means you will keep a handful and cull the rest, not sell) and breed it back to the sunshine, you might get a few (again culling a lot of fish,selling none, and keeping the best) yellow toned white butterflies. Here is something like I am talking about except in a red/pink hue:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/100_2678_zps2958460a.jpg

Ok, at this point your now into it about 3 1/2 - 4 years, and you have culled a good many fish. Now you can start to refine the phenotype, so add another 3-4 years minimum. So, if your looking for good fry from the cross the answer is no, however, if you are a rare individual and don't mind working on something for several years, than have at it. John's responses are normally centered around the fact 99.9% of the people are looking to get something nice from the original cross.


-Rick

[nc0gnet0]

How about a blue diamond with a platinum? will that give me platinum blue?

This is just basically breeding a light colored BD to a normal colored BD. Fry will be ok, but what's the point? It's actually a step backward from getting to the platinum in the first place. I would just get another platinum.

-Rick

[rdiscus]

Glad to hear and I can't wait to see them! :)

Here's you go
Cross breeding: Non-pigeon x Pigeon (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?115873-Cross-breeding-Non-pigeon-x-Pigeon&p=1113127#post1113127)

[John_Nicholson]

Ryan yours is an isolated case and is not the norm.

-john

[XAnhLe]

This is just basically breeding a light colored BD to a normal colored BD. Fry will be ok, but what's the point? It's actually a step backward from getting to the platinum in the first place. I would just get another platinum.

-Rick

Oh I see. I was just curious. I'd love to breed platinums one day though. Albino platinum is my personal favorite of all the discus. Just love the look. :)


Here's you go
Cross breeding: Non-pigeon x Pigeon (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?115873-Cross-breeding-Non-pigeon-x-Pigeon&p=1113127#post1113127)

Woah!!! those babies look beautiful.