What heaters do you guys use? (having troubles getting my tank to 90)

[CanuckGame]

Hey everyone, so im new to Discus, today marks the 7th day.

all of a sudden one of my 6 Discus stopped eating, so i contacted the seller i got them from, and he suggested cranking the heat to 90 for a few days to see if that helps,

anyways in my 75 gallon, i have 2-300W heaters, and the max they go to is 32 degrees Celsius, which is 89.6 degrees Fahrenheit, this works, but they are cranked full blast and my tank stays at about 84 degrees Fahrenheit...

anyways, i have a bunch of heaters, so i just added another 300W heater to see if that will help.... but i dont get it, why would i need 900 Watts worth of heaters in a 75 gallon tank...

i will check in a couple of hours to see if i have reached the temp i need, but thought i would ask what heaters you guys use.

[a.person61]

Thats a little hot... If the fish are new give them some time. The heaters don't go up to that temp because they switch off at the temp there set to so there might be a cold spot. I would personly say lower the temp befor you cook the fish (to the temp there ment to be at) whats your water like? Some pics on the fish and of the tank could be helpfull. I use aqua one heater not the best.

-Auzzie

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk 2

[wild4discus]

Do you have good water circulation near the heaters? Are these heaters old and/or working properly? Are these cheap heaters you are using? If they are a cheap brand, you get what you pay for. Don't skimp out on important equipment like heaters, filters, pumps, etc... And no, you shouldn't need 900 watts to get a 75 gal tank up to that temp as long as the heaters are rated for it. Also, what is your ambient room temperature and is the tank open top or covered? I use 2 eheim jager 300 watt heaters with a jehmco ETCI-1R temp controller for my 125 gal tank. Jagers are the only heaters I use and trust and have always been very reliable for me.

[CanuckGame]

Like i said, the breeder i got them from said to raise the temp to 90, it will help speed their metabolism and may entice the one fish to eat.

the heaters arent cheap heaters they are 50 dollars each, and 2 of the 3 are brand new. the 2 original heaters are set up on opposite sides of the tank, one by the intake to my FX5, and one to the Return, so i dont think flow would be an issue.

adding the 3rd heater actually seemed to work, the tank is stable at 90 degrees. i will leave it stable at 90 for 2 or 3 days as i was suggested, and then go back down to 86.

[Irakusa]

90 can be used to kill ich, not sure about other parasites. In Ich it shortens the time for the birth/growth/breeding cycle so much that the cycle is broken and the infestation dies out.

[zergling]

I have 2 300W Hydor inline heaters currently in use. One of them was replaced this week - died after 7 years of service.

[jds1990]

I have to agree 90 is way to high maybe if you were trying to get rid of some external parasites but I would high advise against it especially if your tank is not well aerated there will be hardly any oxygen for the fish to breathe at that temp. I've cranked up yo 86 before maybe 88 but that was pushing it.

[jds1990]

I don't have experience using your type of heater either. I've always used submersible heaters. I have two in my sump and with all the water flow I have the temp is always constant I have it set on 82.

[doublediscusjack]

I have to agree 90 is way to high maybe if you were trying to get rid of some external parasites but I would high advise against it especially if your tank is not well aerated there will be hardly any oxygen for the fish to breathe at that temp. I've cranked up yo 86 before maybe 88 but that was pushing it.
___________________________________
I can't agree with above statements. I have kept and bred discus since the 1970s, and have consistently, for years, kept discus fry and young at 86 deg. F. the best temperature for young discus, and giving the best growth. Adults are best kept a bit cooler, at 84 degrees. But, for a brief period of time, if treating for some illnesses, etc. SLOWLY taking temp. for adults up to 90 deg. F. is perfectly safe and no problems will result. In doing so, though, you have to have good oxygen levels in the aquarium, good oxygenated water, as mush as is practical in 90 deg. water. You discus kept at temperatures lower than 86 deg. are much more likely to get sick, and the cooler the water temp. is, below 86, the more likely they will get sick too.

[ericNH]

You discus kept at temperatures lower than 86 deg. are more likely to get sick, and the cooler the water temp. is, below 86, the more likely they will get sick too.

Great info! I keep my tank between 84 and 85F - maybe i'll bump it up a degree or so. I realize that most of the veterans here recommend slightly lower temps, but they also have the most pristine setups. Perhaps those of us who change 50% or less daily in a planted tank can benefit from the slightly higher temps? To help combat things like ich and what-not?

[DISCUS STU]

Many of the new heaters top out at 89 f. or even less. The old Supreme heaters could go beyond 100 f. and cook your fish if they malfunctioned, which they did frequently. A little nostalgia history.

Eheim Jager heaters (formerly Ebo Jager), are rated for 93 f. assuming your matching the wattage to the gallons right. One 250 or 300 watt should be more than enough to do what your asking about. They're reliable and have a good reputation.

I've always kept my fish at 86 f. and have never had ich. These days I'm keeping them at 84 f. mostly due to info. on this forum to see how it works out.

[nc0gnet0]

You discus kept at temperatures lower than 86 deg. are much more likely to get sick, and the cooler the water temp. is, below 86, the more likely they will get sick too.

Pay no attention to this, its a load of cr@p. The best all around temperature to keep discus is 28C or 82 degrees F.


-Rick

[Quintin]

I have also kept my discus at this temp 28c even with 5cm babies and hve no problems.when had my tank at 30-32 only had endless problems.

[John_Nicholson]

There is no need to keep discus warmer than 82 degrees. I have kept them at that temp for a very long, long time. Hell I have reaised multiple generations of the same line where they never got about 82. 82 was the norm for a very long time before the internet experts shoped up to say it had to be warmer.

Healthy young discus eat at 82 degrees.

Now I need to get out to my fish house and feed fish. I have 3 pairs carying fry and about 1000 fry all at 82 degrees....I hate to break the news to them that they are all on deaths doorstep. Currently the poor things think they are happy and healthy but I guess I need to break the news to them that they are not.....

-john

[yim11]

Great info! I keep my tank between 84 and 85F - maybe i'll bump it up a degree or so. I realize that most of the veterans here recommend slightly lower temps, but they also have the most pristine setups. Perhaps those of us who change 50% or less daily in a planted tank can benefit from the slightly higher temps? To help combat things like ich and what-not?

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, it's the opposite actually.

[Rudustin]

You are definitely cooking your fish at that temperature! I keep all my discus at between eighty three or eighty two as well. Rufus

[Rudustin]

BTW, bacteria love warm water! Rufus

[ericNH]

Pay no attention to this, its a load of cr@p. The best all around temperature to keep discus is 28C or 82 degrees F.


-Rick

No. I do not accept your casual dismissal of doublediscusjack's input.

[ericNH]

He is experienced. As are you, nc0gnet0. But he is, too. Andfor a long time.

[nc0gnet0]

http://img.sndimg.com/food/image/upload/w_266/v1/img/recipes/25/31/38/picFOZ2sH.jpg

if your gonna do it, at least do it right.........

http://www.wikihow.com/Boil-Fish

[ktltn04]

90F is way too high unless you treat them with metro. Other than that, keep them at 82-83F.

[yim11]

lmao

82 or deal with increase of potential/likely bacteria/pathogens [in that tank/setup] at the higher temps.

Ignore the bad/wrong info from those still learning.

[John_Nicholson]

He is experienced. As are you, nc0gnet0. But he is, too. Andfor a long time.

So you have been to his place and seen his fish? Anyone can get on the internet and tell you how great they are. I have read most of his post and many of them scream "internet expert". They may sounds good to inexperienced people but to knowledgable people they often have large holes in them. One of the biggest problems that new people have is with aggression. They have one fish that beats everyone up and eats all the food...right? Well he made a post about a way that he has done his tanks for "years". Basically they have a pyramid on the bottom. Now if it concentrates the poop in one place then what is it going to do with the food? It is going to concentrate it also. Do you see the problem here? Now it appears that you want to worship the man fine, drink all the coolaid that you want to, but I think you are headed in the wrong direction. Do what you want to with your fish but some of us have a long and PROVEN track record, some are CLAIMING a record.

-john

[ericNH]

Basically they have a pyramid on the bottom. Now if it concentrates the poop in one place then what is it going to do with the food? It is going to concentrate it also. Do you see the problem here?

Well I just assumed the uneaten food and poop at the bottom would simply be flushed out with each water change. The fish can't get to the leftover food because he puts an eggcrate panel above it. I don't see what I'm missing here.

But anyway, don't get me wrong, I DO respect the opinions ppl like yourself and inc0gnet0. But I also don't automatically dismiss someone who you guys disagree with. He says he has decades of experience; and is it really that crazy to believe that discus kept at 86F might be less susceptible to ich, and possibly some other diseases? I don't claim to know, I'm just leaving room for the possibility.

[ericNH]

And besides, his post was called "a load of cr@p". NOT a friendly way to debate the merits or fallacies regarding his statements.

[nc0gnet0]

And besides, his post was called "a load of cr@p". NOT a friendly way to debate the merits or fallacies regarding his statements.

Not true, if I wanted to call his whole post a load of ****, I would have quoted the whole post. I took particular issue with one line of his post (although IMO most of his post is wrong) that he stated not as opinion, but as of fact:


discus kept at temperatures lower than 86 deg. are much more likely to get sick, and the cooler the water temp. is, below 86, the more likely they will get sick too.

This is an all encompassing statement and not made in regards to one specific ailment. To that end if flies in the face of reason. It is common knowledge than many strains of bacteria and some parasites will multiply at greatly increased rates in elevated temperatures. Yes, there are a few, that are not temperature tolerant (aka ich, but only a total newb would give a discus ich), but the vast majority of pathogens do just fine in warmer water. Yes, there are a few times that elevating the temperature might be recommended, but this is the case only when dealing with a known pathogen. Often times it is counter productive.

I might add that I have always wondered why some find it necessary to start a post with " I have been keeping discus since the dark ages, and this is what......"
What does that mean exactly? Me, myself, I have only been keeping them a little over 5 years now, but hey, I guess I am a faster learner than some. :) But don't take my word for it, feel free to browse the disease section, and you will find PLENTY of discus that have gotten sick while being kept at higher temperatures than 82. Kinda shoots the theory right out of the water doesn't it?

[John_Nicholson]

So you are saying that the fish only get to eat the food on the fall? That once it hits the bootom they cannot get to it? That is even worse.

Rick said it was a load of crap because he is nicer than me. What I was going to post was far harsher. I have raised fish that literally had thousands of fry over their lifetime, Fish that lived into the double digits that never saw their water over 82. Often when people ask me about sick fish I send them to people that are more experienced. You know why? Because I so seldom have a sick fish. Even though I have been raising discus longer than most people on here have owned them I do not have a ton of experience with illiness. Based on what I read above all my fish should be sick. Right? I mean you have to beleive everything you read on the internet right?

-john

[nc0gnet0]

There is also a common misconception that young discus grow faster in waters at or around 86f. We had a contest couple years ago, mine did just fine at 82 f from egg to adult (as did others in the contest I might add)

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?265-nc0gnet0-Caledonia-Michigan-USA

It's not the temperature that matters most in growing young discus, it's the water quality. Too many people buy into this fallacy that in order to grow young fish you want to increase their metabolism, hence then increase their appetite (and the amount of food you give them), next thing you know, water quality goes to sh** and you end up with sickly diseased and or stunted fish. Happens all the time, all because of some silly old wives tale.

Sure on the surface it appears to makes sense

Increased temperature = increased metabolism = increased appetite = increased growth

or does it?

Increased metabolism also equals increased energy needs (aka more calories are burned)

A constant increased metabolism could also mean a decreased life span (the candle that burns the brightest, burns the shortest)

and most importantly as I have already stated

Increased temperature = increased metabolism in pathogens = increased rate of binary fission = higher bacterial load = higher chance fish succumbing to sickness

[nc0gnet0]

Even though I have been raising discus longer than most people

yeah, listen to John, he has been raising discus since the beginning of time even.........

http://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/sfun_hailbig.gif?w=700&h=

lol

-Rick

[Dkings]

Get a heater controller so if your heater's thermostat goes out and the heater gets stuck on the controller will shut it off. :bandana:

[John_Nicholson]

lol


yeah, listen to John, he has been raising discus since the beginning of time even.........

http://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/sfun_hailbig.gif?w=700&h=

lol

-Rick

[DonMD]

90 can be used to kill ich, not sure about other parasites. In Ich it shortens the time for the birth/growth/breeding cycle so much that the cycle is broken and the infestation dies out.

I knew that high temps killed ich, but never knew why. Thanks, that's good to know.

[DISCUS STU]

This was about heaters, right? The ViaAqua is also good and will get to 93 f. It's also a little easier to set than the Eheim Jager. Assuming that you're using heat therapy properly.

I had always kept my fish at 86 f. but will try it at 82 f. and helpfully that will lower the bacterial load in my tanks as well as my electricity bills.

I respect the acquired knowledge and experience of everyone above and don't dismiss anyone's experience out of hand. I've been keeping Discus for more than 20 years but still feel there's room to learn from others. There's more than one "perfect" way to keep these fish. I prefer to address others politely; we're all in the same hobby.

[jds1990]

I've always listened to advice on the forums and from my own personal experience owning these awesome fish. Wouldn't be trying to give you bad advice I've been keeping discus for only 2 or 3 years but I have learned a whole lot in that time frame. It is quite the learning experience. Hope you resolve your problem

[ericNH]

There's no doubt about it, there *is* a real learning curve involved with keeping discus. I am interested in seeing what other heaters are recommended. More specifically, what might someone recommend for a 125 gallon? It turns out I have a couple of used I-don't-really-know-what-they-are heaters in my tank right now, and I'd like to upgrade. Do I go 2 heaters? Or one big heater? Eheim seems most recommended most atm...

[John_Nicholson]

I normally recommend 2 heaters. If one fails to turn off it keeps you from cooking your fish.

-john

[jds1990]

I agree with John I have two as well with a larger tank one on each side. I have mine in my sump and they help control the temp a lot better than they did in the tank because there is so much flow in that section in the sump I have two Penn plax 75g 300w heaters for my 100g tank and in the winter time house on 70 I have no issues. Hearers also have a lifetime guarantee. Not the greatest equipment but cheap effective and good support.

[jds1990]

I had one big heater and it was an eheim cracked and "supercharged" my tank. Stuck my finger in to feed one day and got a nice wake up call. Nothing against them just had mine for less than a year and never had it on during w/c either till the tank was full. I've had one of these penn plax heaters since I got into discus about 2 or 3 years ago.

[nc0gnet0]

all of a sudden one of my 6 Discus stopped eating, so i contacted the seller i got them from, and he suggested cranking the heat to 90 for a few days to see if that helps,

I think this is bad advice. I strongly suggest starting a thread in the disease section and see if we can get things sorted out. If you want to bump the temp up to 86 for a few days to see if that helps, there are worse things, but 90 is not called for.


anyways in my 75 gallon, i have 2-300W heaters, and the max they go to is 32 degrees Celsius, which is 89.6 degrees Fahrenheit, this works, but they are cranked full blast and my tank stays at about 84 degrees Fahrenheit...

Are both heaters constantly on? If not the problem is easily rectified, if they are, then yes you will need to add another heater, or better yet, replace one with one of a higher wattage. If your going to go with dual heaters, I strongly suggest a temperature controller.

Ok, now, if both heaters are not in a constant "on" state, what you need to do is unplug the heater, remove it from the tank, and set it at say 82 degrees. With a pair of pliers carefully remove the center portion (the part that turns, the pointer should be stationary). Once you have this removed, place it back on, only this time when placing it back on, line up the pointer to the 78 degree mark on the dial. You now have "calibrated" your heater and it should allow you to get a few more degrees out if it. This will work with about 85% of the heaters out there, however, there are exceptions so be careful and do not "force" anything.


-Rick

[DISCUS STU]

I am interested in seeing what other heaters are recommended. More specifically, what might someone recommend for a 125 gallon? It turns out I have a couple of used I-don't-really-know-what-they-are heaters in my tank right now, and I'd like to upgrade. Do I go 2 heaters? Or one big heater? Eheim seems most recommended most atm...

Two 300 watt heaters would be good for a tank that size. Even though at 300 watts they're rated for 159-264 gals. I'd rather underwork, than overwork a heater. If one fails the other can also carry the load. The issue that I had to work around was that my Ebo-Jager's (now Eheim-Jagers) being analog dial heaters, one of them was usually firing and carrying the load while the other one wasn't doing much. Even when set to match, one would always have a slightly lower setting than the other and not fire while the other would. The one firing less would need to be tweaked through trial and error to get it to match the other as closely as possible so they could more closely fire together.

[blueluv]

What's a good source for titanium heaters ?

[farebox]

I have an 125G tank and been using the Finnex titanium heather TH-800 Plus with temperature controller from Jemcho, also just changed the tank temp from 84 to 82F. Thanks John, always follow your advise, good healthy crew...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ericNH]

Thanks, all, for the advice. Even though the OP has a slightly smaller tank, this info could still be relevant and is at least on topic. Sorry for teh hijack..I will go with 2 x 300watt heaters, and a temperature controller, which I just learned about.

[pitdogg2]

___________________________________
I can't agree with above statements. I have kept and bred discus since the 1970s, and have consistently, for years, kept discus fry and young at 86 deg. F. the best temperature for young discus, and giving the best growth. Adults are best kept a bit cooler, at 84 degrees. But, for a brief period of time, if treating for some illnesses, etc. SLOWLY taking temp. for adults up to 90 deg. F. is perfectly safe and no problems will result. In doing so, though, you have to have good oxygen levels in the aquarium, good oxygenated water, as mush as is practical in 90 deg. water. You discus kept at temperatures lower than 86 deg. are much more likely to get sick, and the cooler the water temp. is, below 86, the more likely they will get sick too.

I agree with this I live with no A/C in the summer My tanks are the ambient temperature in the summer. For weeks on end they will be in the high 90's. Many years ago I noticed while feeding live food(minnows) to my fish that some would have ick. Needless to say my large fish NEVER got Ick EVER even though it was eating fish with ick. Well when the temps fell and I still fed those minnows BAMO I have ick. Crank up temps to 92* ick gone in 2 days no med's nothing but heat and salt. This is my go to now for ICK just heat.


I have to agree 90 is way to high maybe if you were trying to get rid of some external parasites but I would high advise against it especially if your tank is not well aerated there will be hardly any oxygen for the fish to breathe at that temp. I've cranked up yo 86 before maybe 88 but that was pushing it.

There's still plenty of O2 for them with surface agitation. In fact I notice no faster breathing than when at 84*. So far my hottest has been 96* still no lose of any fish whether my big bruisers or smaller cichlid's. I do take off glass in summer and use egg-crate for a more open tank.

[Tankster]

2 800 watt and a 1,000 watt titanium's with ECI controllers.

I would use 2 heaters connected to a single ECI controller. Peace of mind having a backup just in case.

[Tankster]

I almost followed his advice. I split the difference and set my ECI at 83.

I have an 125G tank and been using the Finnex titanium heather TH-800 Plus with temperature controller from Jemcho, also just changed the tank temp from 84 to 82F. Thanks John, always follow your advise, good healthy crew...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tankster]

What's a good source for titanium heaters ?

Jehmco (http://www.jehmco.com/html/heaters.html)

[jds1990]

Here's my general consensus of the above statements:
A. You shouldn't feed live food unless you know for a fact they're disease free. Feeding your discus fish with ick on them is a terrible idea and you're asking for trouble.
B. It's been discussed that 82 F is really the most comfortable temperature keeping discus and I hope your temp doesn't constantly fluctuate because that is definitely not good for your fish.

[pitdogg2]

Here's my general consensus of the above statements:
A. You shouldn't feed live food unless you know for a fact they're disease free. Feeding your discus fish with ick on them is a terrible idea and you're asking for trouble.

I never fed Discus live fish with ICK. It was a large cichlid as in full grown Red Terrors.


B. It's been discussed that 82 F is really the most comfortable temperature keeping discus and I hope your temp doesn't constantly fluctuate because that is definitely not good for your fish.

would you like to buy a A/C unit for me? I'll keep them at a lower temp if you did. I ask how would you lower the ambient temp outside? My temp never fluctuates it stay's 84* the only reason my temps go up is warm weather. It's not like one day they're in 84* then 90* then 84* as the temps outside decline so will my temps in the tank just as in nature until they hit 84* then the heater will keep that.

[jds1990]

You should really get your priorities straight. And I can promise you its been proven there is much less oxygen at a higher temperature. My discus were all at the top of the water breathing like they swam miles because my heater stayed on because of FL bipolar weather. The tank was at 92. You might as well be cooking them. And if you have no ac of course your temp fluctuates there's no way to keep your house at a constant temp. Sorry but it really irritates me when people like you have to be smart asses. Go buy your own ac unit jeez.

[musicmarn1]

This was an interesting thread but arguing over temps seems so silly,! Seems like consistency is key, but as usual so many people have success with different methods. Me I just want heaters that stay consistent I've had issues with that and it's stressful for me. I agree weather changes my tanks but slowly and having reliable thermostats that I connect heaters too, has become vital to keeping the stress down :)

[ericNH]

It's already been said, but 90F sounds too high. Since your ambient temperature will always be high then it seems there's not much you can do about it. I suppose the best thing you can do in that situation is keep the temp stable, which is exactly what you are trying to achieve, so good luck with that.

[klannin]

I think it's important to remember that in nature most fish are subject to gradual temperature fluctuations based on seasons, rains, and especially water depth and flow. Fish in nature however have the ability to move to different places. Although fish can tolerate a temp doesn't necessarily mean that's where he would choose to be all of the time.