Raising fry in a shoe box

[John_Nicholson]

I got an pm today asking about artificially raising fry. I have posted this before in the past but decided I would do it again.

First build a shoe box. It is a plastic box that floats. I use PVC to float it but you can use anything you want. On one end put a lift tube with an air line. That will bring in fresh water. On the other end cut a hole large enough to let the water back out and glue netting over it. I normally do a square that is about 2" by 3" and hot glue down a piece of old fish net. I make sue all of the edges are covered in glue so that the fry cannot get caught in it. Here is a rough pic of it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/DiscusJohn/shoebox.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/DiscusJohn/media/shoebox.jpg.html)

You can put this in a 75 gallon tank. It keeps the fry confined to a small area but they have the total water volume of 75 gallons. When you feed use fresh hatched BBS. Feed twice a day and feed super heavy. The key to this thing is to feed so heavily that the fry cannot swim without hitting some BBS. The extra BBS will eventually get pushed through the net and into the bigger tank.

It is real simply and has been used for a long, long time. I still think it is best to be patient and let the pair work it out, but if you have to go the artificial route the one above works well and anyone can do it. Once the first batch is a couple of weeks old you turn them loose in the 75 and put a new batch in the box. The older fry will eat the extra BBS that pass through the box.

-john

[John_Nicholson]

Clicking the pic will take you yo photobucket where you can enlarge it some.

-john

[seanyuki]

Nice design John and thanks for posting it.:)

[rickztahone]

good stuff John. TFS

[John_Nicholson]

Here are a couple of poor pics that I took last night in an angelfish grow out tank.

-john

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/DiscusJohn/20140915_193600_zpsbeb18425.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/DiscusJohn/media/20140915_193600_zpsbeb18425.jpg.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/DiscusJohn/20140915_193552_zpsbb9d004a.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/DiscusJohn/media/20140915_193552_zpsbb9d004a.jpg.html)

[Allwin]

Like it..

[nicole5085]

I got an pm today asking about artificially raising fry. I have posted this before in the past but decided I would do it again.

First build a shoe box. It is a plastic box that floats. I use PVC to float it but you can use anything you want. On one end put a lift tube with an air line. That will bring in fresh water. On the other end cut a hole large enough to let the water back out and glue netting over it. I normally do a square that is about 2" by 3" and hot glue down a piece of old fish net. I make sue all of the edges are covered in glue so that the fry cannot get caught in it. Here is a rough pic of it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/DiscusJohn/shoebox.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/DiscusJohn/media/shoebox.jpg.html)

You can put this in a 75 gallon tank. It keeps the fry confined to a small area but they have the total water volume of 75 gallons. When you feed use fresh hatched BBS. Feed twice a day and feed super heavy. The key to this thing is to feed so heavily that the fry cannot swim without hitting some BBS. The extra BBS will eventually get pushed through the net and into the bigger tank.

It is real simply and has been used for a long, long time. I still think it is best to be patient and let the pair work it out, but if you have to go the artificial route the one above works well and anyone can do it. Once the first batch is a couple of weeks old you turn them loose in the 75 and put a new batch in the box. The older fry will eat the extra BBS that pass through the box.

-john
Thank you John for your post,
I am new at breeding discuss. I have had 3 sets of eggs and so far they have been eaten by the parents. The third time the eggs made it almost to maturity. I am hoping that the parents will stop eating them soon. I have read that it is common.
Anyways i copied your design and i am saving it for later.
I am hopeful!:o

[doublediscusjack]

I used to use a shoebox system described as above by John. However, if you do same, and have your shoebox floating in large tank containing large discus, beware that at times the large discus will bite into the fine mesh netting glued over the hole in shoebox, attempting to eat the young fry inside the shoebox, often killing some of them, so do what you need to do to prevent this from happening. Eventually, I came to use coffee filters within the shoe box, as described on this site, under "artificially rearing made easy," by Big Tuck, a Canadian. I successfully used such a system back in the 1970s, almost identical to what Big Tuck described as being used by him.

[John_Nicholson]

I have used the shoe box methods for at least 20 years and have never had an issue with fry being killed from outside the net. In fact I do not see how there would be any chance for it to happen.

-john

[daffyfish]

Looks like a great solution, when you have to pull angel fish fry. I usually let them parent raise. But, sometimes they start a second spawn, too soon. Thanks for the posting.

[BowRiver]

Great information John my red melon pair have a good batch of fry this time but wiggles not be able to attach to the parent. Sadly see them slowly die

[DiscusLoverJeff]

I want to thank John for his design and help.

I recently sold a pair of Snow Leopards but the day before sending them on their way, they left me a present of a clutch of eggs. So not sure if they were fertile, I came home from work the other day and had about 30 wigglers attached to the cone. So with no parents around, I decided to look for some tips on artificially raising them. I remembered this thread John posted and thought I should try and build this.

Not having the plastic box John suggested, I looked around by countless fish items and remembered I had a blackworm keeper. So I thought this would work. Here is the result.

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx161/DiscusJeff/20140924_182024_zps4c59b304.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx161/DiscusJeff/20140924_182148_zps9f3ff0c5.jpg

Here is a picture of the fry in their new home.

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx161/DiscusJeff/20140924_185108_zps5adec762.jpg

Thanks John!

Jeff

[John_Nicholson]

Good luck and remember you have to really, really over feed the first few days. To the point that they cannot swim without hitting some BBS.

-john

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Have two batches of BBS going now!

[discusgiz]

Good luck and remember you have to really, really over feed the first few days. To the point that they cannot swim without hitting some BBS.

-john

Thanks John a great post I know it's an old posting now , but do you just use normal BS eggs as I cannot get San francisco bay brine shrimp many thanks

[jeep]

Where are you located?

[Willie]

I refuse to dignify a Nicholson post with a response.

[CliffsDiscus]

The old shoebox has been around since the 70s. Tropical Fish Hobbyist published book called Baby Discus by Art Hayley back in 1979 explaining the shoebox method also has pictures too.


Cliff

[smsimcik]

Thanks John a great post I know it's an old posting now , but do you just use normal BS eggs as I cannot get San francisco bay brine shrimp many thanks

To answer your question, you can get San Francisco Bay brine shrimp eggs from Brine Shrimp Direct. https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/brine-shrimp-eggs/san-francisco-strain-brine-shrimp-eggs/. But I have raised discus artificially with regular sized baby brine shrimp.

[T_om]

The old shoebox has been around since the 70s. Tropical Fish Hobbyist published book called Baby Discus by Art Hayley back in 1979 explaining the shoebox method also has pictures too.


Cliff

Yep. That's where I got my first successful breeding program going a LONG time ago. For the old timers around here, there was a guy back then that advertised (and sold for a large sum) the same process in the aquarium published media of the day. No Internet back then as Al Gore hadn't invented it yet. :)

Art disliked that and made his system public. Worked like a charm.

Art did publish an inexpensive book, but he made the info available for free too. As a matter of fact, the book is still available today. Great reading (I bought a copy decades ago) and still a valid technique.

https://www.amazon.com/Baby-discus-emphasis-artificial-feeding/dp/B0006XW1VW

Tom

[CliffsDiscus]

Yep. That's where I got my first successful breeding program going a LONG time ago. For the old timers around here, there was a guy back then that advertised (and sold for a large sum) the same process in the aquarium published media of the day. No Internet back then as Al Gore hadn't invented it yet. :)

Art disliked that and made his system public. Worked like a charm.

Art did publish an inexpensive book, but he made the info available for free too. As a matter of fact, the book is still available today. Great reading (I bought a copy decades ago) and still a valid technique.

https://www.amazon.com/Baby-discus-emphasis-artificial-feeding/dp/B0006XW1VW

Tom

I also bought Art's book decades ago and remember a few ads in TFH or FAMA on the readers exchange. Yes one seller was similar to Art's another one was Discus Heaven using the pan method. There was another breeder who ran Altenda Water Garden in Southern California, must
of had over what looked like at least a thousand Discus, pan raised.

Cliff

[T_om]

I also bought Art's book decades ago and remember a few ads in TFH or FAMA on the readers exchange. Yes one seller was similar to Art's another one was Discus Heaven using the pan method. There was another breeder who ran Altenda Water Garden in Southern California, must
of had over what looked like at least a thousand Discus, pan raised.

Cliff

Right! The guy that ran Altadena Water Garden was named Carroll Friswold. You post shook that out of my aging brain cells all of a sudden. :) And I THINK it was him that sold the exorbitantly priced artificial method I mentioned earlier. But again this was in the early 70's, a long time ago and as I said, my brain cells are aging even as we speak. So I might be doing Friswold an unintended injustice.

Tom

[CliffsDiscus]

Right! The guy that ran Altadena Water Garden was named Carroll Friswold. You post shook that out of my aging brain cells all of a sudden. :) And I THINK it was him that sold the exorbitantly priced artificial method I mentioned earlier. But again this was in the early 70's, a long time ago and as I said, my brain cells are aging even as we speak. So I might be doing Friswold an unintended injustice.

Tom

I have Friswald copy back in mid 60's the cost was around $500 only had around 13 pages it was copyright. Friswald method was similar to Jack Wattley method. Back then I could buy a use Ford Mustang for the same price.

Cliff